Now the Taliban will pay a price

``Now the Taliban will pay a price,'' Bush vowed.



I'm sure the last thing you guys want is another reminder that this world has gone to war, but this stuff is all that's on my mind as of late, and I just have to vent. Being that this is a FREE DISCUSSION board, I figure why not. Because, I really want to know how you guys feel about what's going on in this world? How you feel about the administration in charge, and whether or not you gys feel they had no other choice in striking?


No one was supposed to be prepared for this, just like the first attack that took plac on SEPT 11. Basically, for most of us, it's still hard for us to belueve what is going on. We never thought that we would face war at such a high level once again in this country. We don't live life thinking that insanity should control our actions and that's a good thing. We have to continue coming together as human beings, and we can't allow the rest of the worl to think that we are fragile as American's. It's unfortunate that it takes tragedy to unite us like this, but something good has to
come out of this, a way to begin the healing process and to show the world that our love for our country, and for each other cannot be destroyed! The only way ti start the healing process is to know that bin Laden and his troops are no longer a severe threat. And we can't just take his word for it.

We can't just roll over and play dead, and I guess there are too many people in charge who don't want to take the risk in sacrificing more innocent lives in this world. Our minds should be put at ease, and there should be a simple way to resolve things, but at this point it's impossible. If America doesn't strike and eliminate all of their weapon reasources, immediately, than we will always have to look over our shoulders as American citizens for the rest of our lives. We will always have to wonder when the next time will come, when our lives will be threatened.

I've been talking to a lot of people, and the one thing they are worried about is possible retaliation, and other deals that may have been secretly made with other countries. Basically, we have to take it all one step at a time, and we shouldn't jump the gun. But The president gave them a chance, he even offered them millions of dollars, to make things easier, and to prevent this from happening again. But because they have decided to ignore the presidents requests for peace, in some ways he had no choice.

I know it's scary, it's scary to even think about what will become of this world in he next coming months. But I for one can longer sit back and just hope for this situation to just go away. I'm thinking about the future of my family one day, and the thought of living free and clear from terrorism. To live in a country that makes it almost impossible to have have our lives threatened so unexpectedly (ever again,) to once again regain that feeling of security that was almost destroyed!

Osama bin Laden, his attacks on our country proved he is nothing more than a coward, and that he has sealed his own fate. He has come to the end of the road, but he will not thrreaten this country, espevcially after what thousands of people have done in the past to give us freedom. My Grandfather he fought in world War 2, my family goes back a long way, and we have worked too hard to have our beliefs destroyed, or to have our lives threatened until the end of time.

I was never an advocate for violence, nor do I think that it's the answer to all of our problems all of the time. However, sometimes actions speak louder than words, and there are times when we have to be willing to accept that, to prevent evil ffrom invading this country like never before.

I've talked to many people, and thet wonder why now? Especially since America has just sat back over the past few years when other acts of terrorism have hit our country. Why Now? There's no simple answer to this question, however, you can only turn the other cheek so many times. And yes, America cannot lose face over this attack, we have to be strng, and willing to fight for what we believe in.

Only God knows what will come of this world, only God knows if we'll survive mentally, but we can no longer allow other countries to take us apart piece by piece.

What are your opinions on this, do you feel that The President should have waited a little bit longer to strike?

-Joseph

1)They did have a chioce in striking... when the whole loecerbi thing happened and there were the two libyan suspects. we didn't go to incentrate inoccent poeple under a tyrant, we (the uk) put sanctions and made life more difficult but never went to war... the result was that both men were handed over (10 years later), and tried, one was cleared and one was convicted...
2)I dont feel that Bin Laden and co are a threat at the minute, from what i've seen they've been made scapegoats... if they're innocet of the 11th ongoings, it will still be seen as just as he was responsible for bombings of the american embasies....
3) "The president gave them a chance" hold on! When did he give them a real chance? The talaban asked for eveidence, and they were told no! This is much more vital than tring to buy the enemy over... The evidence in itself is very bizzar, they say they've found the passport (made of paper and leather cover) belonging to one of the hijackers (who got blown into tiny meaty chunks, probably whith his passport in his pocket) acouple of blocks down the road from the trade centre, but where is the black box (virtually indistructable)? Also noone know who's dead and who still alive, there are reports that 5 of the 19 are alive, then it was said that these aren't hijakers, they're the real people that the hijackers had used their names, but the names of the hijaker have'nt changed, but there are poeple saying this isn't true...this doesn't add up to me.
4)"Osama bin Laden, his attacks on our country proved he is nothing more than a coward" ... remeber inoccent till proven guilty, and the president saying he believes that he is wouldn't stand up in court...
5)"to prevent evil ffrom invading this country like never before"... Give me one good reason why the death of so many innocent(past the 1.5 million mark now) iraqi's is just accepted, but a few thousand americans (a couple of hundred brits,etc) is some how "The worst act of terrorism", and is some unacceptable evil?
6)I told you (back in the america under attack thread) that they would say they care for the afgan poeple, and then drop bombs... they've become a little wiser since iraq, as such blatant lying cant go unseen, so they drop food as well... the improtant question is, is it meant to be another cosmetic policy, to be picked up their friends in the media, to use as a propaganda tool, or are they really going to feed starving afgan soon to be facing winter... They've droped 39,000 rations (according to BBC news), if they carry this on, there may be enough, but the truth is they're expecting a hell of alot more than 39,000 poeple (a couple million)... so really i've got to keep an eye out for this
7) Another summit that the US pulled out of, was an anti terrorism summit in Febuary... i only found out about this when one of MPs (that's a bit like a member of congress) dropped it into the debate on "Question time", which really shocked me!
8) 60% of americans support the idea that arabs should carry identity cardS! What the hell is the matter with these poeple?! The poeple who are suspected to have caused the crash are all reported to have had false identities, so how are id cards going to help? How do you think arabs will feel about being stopped in the street for being arabs? I've seen the american health service, and i've always wondered why the worlds richest country can't make it's health service free for all? Well, money wasted on id cards, could be better spent on steps to makeing health care more equal for example... If arabs are made to carry id cards, what stops the government making black poeple carrying id, or Oriental, do you knw what i mean?
9)I am the only on to have heard about the president's comment, where he said... i cant remember word for word, but something like : i'm not gonna send a $2,000,000 missile to blow up a $10 tent, just to kick some camels butt.
Which is true, most targets in afganistan are worth less than the bombs, because the counrty has basically been bombed into the stone ago do to civil war, drought, and never realy recovering from the whole war against the USSR...
10) "this isn't a war against islam"... praise the lord for honest mps (not very many though). Going Back to "question time", there is a list of terrorist organisations, and they are all muslim... now i'm no terorism expert but right now i could name oooh, 3 terrorist organisation that aren't muslim, and so aren't on the list (the IRA, mossad, the Tamile tigers), just from the top of my head...
11) this being handled very badly, but the truth is in years to come the truth will disappear in the flag flying, national anthem singing, uniform wareing, saluting dogma...

I think that the bombing was a bit uncalled for...there really isnt that many targets in Afganistan worth the money/time/risk of hitting. Any attack we do whatsoever risks innocent deaths which, if they occured, would make us just as in the wrong as the taliban if not worse for the complete hypocracy of it. I dont think that the president was in the right to risk such an occurance on the behalf of the American people, half of which dont even want him to be president. By the way, if any of you guitar players out there haven't read Ladins speech after the attacks against Afganistan, you need to. He does, as much as I hate to admit it, strike on a good point against the United States. It isnt enough of an excuse to kill people like that, but everyone needs to keep in mind that we are not dealing with a mindless fanatical terrorist with no common sense, we are dealing with a fully competent human being who has as much reasoning behind his beliefs as you and I think we do. The only difference is that his reasoning is targeted against us as much as ours is against him.

What I'm trying to say and I hope I have already said is that this entire occurance is not a conflict of nationalities and foriegn factions, the entire scenario operates at an incredibly personal level on both sides of the conflict. Never forget who we are dealing with, or more importantly, who we are in comparison to them. There isnt that much difference.

All that probably hasn't made any sense yet because I dont write in a coherent pattern, but thats my opinion on the whole thing. Quite a lot of philosophy for a 16 year old guy but I'm sure someone will find it meaningfull.




Id cards for arabs...kind of reminds me of how we treated the Japanese in WW2...

educatedfilm: mossad is the israeli intelligence, not a terror organization, however there is a jewish organization in this list as far as i know..
my problem with this whole attack, is as usual from a typical israeli view: the americans shouldnt make a coalition with people like pakistan, syria and they even wanted iran in.
it seems to me, like to lots of other people that bush just want to show he is doing something instead of realy fighting the terror, and he is worried too much about the muslim countries opinion instead of fighting the terror...

Black rose:"He does, as much as I hate to admit it, strike on a good point against the United States. It isnt enough of an excuse to kill people like that, but everyone needs to keep in mind that we are not dealing with a mindless fanatical terrorist with no common sense, we are dealing with a fully competent human being who has as much reasoning behind his beliefs as you and I think we do. The only difference is that his reasoning is targeted against us as much as ours is against him. "
I'm extremly happy to see there are intelligent poeple who dont fall for the old demonising the enemy routine, who do think for them selves, and dont go straight into "We need to protect country by blowing up someone elses" hysteria.

An update on the position of the afgan poeple, This is all according to BBC news 24:
-There is an estimated 7.5 million poeple now reliant on aid.
- This would mean that 55,000 tonnes of food, suplies, medicens etc need to be droped PER MONTH. This has never been done before.
-39,000 rations have been droped
(39,000/7,500,000 = 0.0052, 0.52%. That means, one ration has to go round, about, 200 people!!!)
-There is not enough shelter.

Zepplin: I do appologies, you are right that mossad is an intelligence group... the name of the right wing group i'm think of has slipped my mind! That's really anoying! It's good to hear there is Jewish group, and that the whole list isn't complete hypocracy...
i think there's a good reason that Bush doesn't want to upset muslim. There are 1 billion of them! He needs Pakistan, Geographicaly, so he can get a strangle hold on afganistan (simply closing off borders means no fuel will get into afaganistan, so the taliban army will be effectivly paralysed). With out them (and their air space) there would be NO attacks. Same goes For saudi arabia. I think if isrialis really want to root out terror they should relize that these countries are essentail, and deserve some credit!

I don't really want to get into another tit-for-tat shouting match with educatedfilm, so I'll just say that I'm with you. We have to stand together and eliminate these maniacs.

By the way, 94% of the American people support the retaliation and 90% are in favor of how the president has handled everything since the 11th. So that's where he gets the right, Blackrose.

Zeppelin, I agree with you about the coalition. We shouldn't be concerned with the approval of Pakistan, Syria, or anywhere else. That's why we're in this mess in the first place. But as for Bush just wanting to show that he's doing something, the military strikes this weekend were in preparation for the ground assault and were meant to reduce the military effectiveness of the Taliban. So he's not just blowing hot air like Clinton did for the last eight years, and this time we are going to fight the terror.

Christoph: lol, i was't shouting at you! Sorry if it came across that way, i was trying to emphasise that you should read my replies properly before you comment on what i say! No hard feelings?

With out the coalition nothing would happen... just anotehr couple of cruise missiles again, but NO troops. If they want to bring in troops they need the help of Afganistans neighbours (in perticlar Pakistan)! That's why all the politains have been very careful in not upsetting these countries.

No hard feelings man. We're all guitarists here.

Yes, we do need Pakistan (or some of the northern countries)if we're going to get troops in. I think Zeppelin's point was that we shouldn't be so concerned with the opinions of people and countries that hate us anyway.

A coalition is a fine and good thing, but we shouldn't try to make one at the expense of our own principles.

I DON'T think you guy's are going to agree,
because educatefilm will keep it going forever!
Anyway up on (Guitar maina )the great Mark Seal's
blew off about go give em hell with the bombs,
and got slame dunked by his guitar mania buddy's.


I really don't think WAR&Politics mix with (Guitar's&music)

just my 2 cents cya guys.............
Mark
P:S Your not from the usa, Educatefilm plus the the uk!
sometimes you sound like your from the west bank?

[Edited by skee1 on 10-08-2001 at 08:16 PM]

I think building a coalition is critical here. As for world opinion not mattering... it should. Everything we do has huge impacts world wide and if we don't take that into consideration, we'll find ourselves alone in the cold. Remember, US polocy is what atracted the attention of bin Laden and his group, everything else they've tacked on there is dressing on the cake.

In my mind it's pretty mindless to fight terrorism and not try to bring the people of the world together on it. The less polarized the mid east is on the issue, the smaller the group of individuals that we will have to fight.

The bottom line is you solve problems by working with people.

Just about everyone I've come in contact with (as of late) is afraid to comment on what's going on in this world. With America's the recent retaliation methods on other countries, people all over the world, especially those who surround me are afraid that we are doing the wrong thing. A'though there are a lot of us who are strong advocates of peace, we can't just sit around and wait for another strong level of destruction to hit our country. There's too much at risk, and we can't afford to fail.

There's too much hatred in this world, and sometimes a simple conversation just can't solve all of our problems. As American's we have to defend what we believe in, and prepare for our future. The president has tried his best to solve matters in a peaceful way, however, the longer we wait, the more is put at risk for us and our future families.

One of the biggest threats as of late is chemical warefare. This is very scary, and I'm sure that there are millions of American's all over trhe globe who fear that if we retaliate, we are only setting ourselves up for another attack, if not now, but years from now, from those who we least expect to strike. It's been said that there are secret deals with various other countries to destroy America, and everything we have worked hard for. But that's what our military is for, they are prepared in case of such a crisis, and they are not trained to just sit back and hope for the best. It's all about action, and it's about time that we've taken some.

It's safe to say that this world will never be the same again, and you know what, I'm beginning to think that there isn't an amount of money that can prevent all of these acts of terrorism. As American citizens, we've been unprepared for far too long, where at this moment, we seem vulnerable to such attacks (as destruction and cheimcal warefare.)

I know a lot of people who are buying gas masks for protection, doing whatever they can do to prepare themselves for such a high level of destruction. To continue on with their livelihoods, we march proud with our masks in hands, as we have strong faith in our government. But you know, things have been screwed up for far too long, and it's definitely going to take a lot of hard work to make up for the mistakes in out last administration. I hope President Bush is up for the task, however with what I've seen so far, I've been impressed.

But talk is cheap, actions tend to speak louder than words. If America waits any longer to strike, we are giving bin Laden more time to prepare himself for a massive war. It's just all too much to take in at once, but we have no choice.

It's really sickening to think that only a few miles away from where I live, there are possible terrorists, people who I may have met once of twice in my lifetime, people who are dilligently planning this countries demise.

Discrimination is not the answer, it's impossible to be perceptive enough to weed through the good and bad, and I'm really tired of watching this world fall apart as a result. I've seen so many different attitudes change, it's not funny. Although such a crisis is supposed to bring us closer together as Americans, it seems as if a lot of people have narrowed it down to appearance and color, which isn't right.

I've been sick of it down here in Florida for quite some time, and because of recent discoveries, hopefully I've given myself a good enough reason to get the heck out of here. But, still, just like everyone else, I have my responsibilities, my work, and I can't just pick up and leave unless I seriously feel that there's danger beyond words.

I'm not one to panic, but (with this new casew of Anthrax) I feel that there's so much that the authorites aren't telling us. You just can't help feeling overwhelmed in a situation like this, fearing the worst is yet to come. As for the anthrax attack, it's been said that it's highly unlikely that this is another terrorist attack, but now the authories have changed their minds once again.

I guess roight now I'm hanging by a ,moment, just trying to make sence of it all. I'm trying to figure out if I'm wrong in resisting to move back home up north in Massachsetts to stay with my friend Sally, I hope I'm not taking my last breath in deciding to stay next to all of these palm trees.

However, I have a very strong optimistic nature, and I refuse to run away. Not just yet.

God Bless America....

-Joseph

Last I heard (10PM MDT, Foxnews channel) that anthrax incident was just some isolated freak event and not at all related to terrorism.

What's going on?

By the way, the problem with buying a gas mask to protect yourself from any sort of chemical attack is that by the time you realize that there's been an attack and you need to put it on, you're dead. So unless you're going to march around all the time wearing a gas mask, buying one is a waste of time and money.

The whole world has seen the crime being committed. The world must now see [u]JUSTICE[/u] being done. What we're seeing now, looks more like an international lynch mob.

Any street kid has sense enough to know that if you want to look for something or somebody in a badass part of town, there are people you've gotta deal with in order to take care of business. [u]Even if it means talking politely to scumbags.[/u]

Militarily, this coalition of Western power could grind Afghanistan into a flat desert, without changing a dayum thing! There are people in parts of the world who are sufficiently misguided that they think the atrocities committed on 11 September were justifiable acts of war. Bombing Afghanistan (which can't bring a satisfactory sense of victory to any of us) does nothing to prove them wrong.

I firmly believe that certain people richly deserve to die twitching and screaming, in payment for the atrocities committed on 11 September. I believe just as firmly in the importance of serving up that just punishment to [u]only[/u] those people who deserve it.

This isn't even remotely like the aftermath of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour. At that time everyone knew who the enemy was, and where to find him. These guys lived among us for years, in various European counties, here in Canada, and in the USA. There are more of them, for sure.

Just how does anyone think a massive military assault on Afghanistan is going do anything to eradicate the evil of terrorism?

Nice to see that there is a healthy range of oppinions, and that there are poeple (like Raskelnikov, god bless him) who see that we need to work with poeple.

Skee1: I'm not from the US, i've said this before in the "america under attack", "where are you from", and this thread. I don't know how you came to conclusion that I may have links with the middle east. The fact is SteveP shares alot of my oppinions and used to live (before he moved to Uni) about 20 minutes walk away from here. Ask him your self! Checked my IP!

Gas Masks: gas masks are designed to protect you from easily compressed gases (like mustard gas), they dont do anything for any biological agent! Poeple should get this staight.
Anthrax: anthrax has been known for hundreds of years, and the bacteria is known to live in sheep. One Anthrax case isn't proof for the use of biological weapons. Viralent and infectious strians have been made, but there is no evidence to suggest this has been used. I'm pretty sure a simple anti-biotics test could tell the difference. So it's not like there could be doubt.
Why use Biological weapons?: I dont know, especialy when 19 poeple with box cutters can kill five and half thousand poeple. Also Explosives are much easier to make, and very easy to get the raw materials for. This cant be said for biological weapons. Poeple need to see the most frightning threat is the threat of suicide bombers/ pilots/ drivers etc, there is noway you can fight them.
Chemical weapons: the only case that i know of where gas was used by terrorist was be a cult in Japan, who released nerve gas in the subway, this killed 12 poeple and injured hundreds. Explosives have definetly done more damage.
Scaremongering (in UK): the tabliods when mad when the W.H.O. advised the government to possibly prepare for the threat of biological weapons. The fact is the WHO hasn't got a military role! They have no intelligence, and what they've said was advice, not a warning. Still that didn't stop the tabliods having a field day with it.

I totally agree with lordofthestrings about this whole situation looking too much like a lynch mob, especially now they've hinted that they're going to bomb iraq. It's starting to look like they're going to hit every country that ever had anything against the US.

The most important thing at the moment is to make sure that the pakistani government is kept stable, as they have nuclear capabilites. All hell will break lose if the government is overthrown. Personally i dred to think what some suicide pilot could do with a nuclear bomb!

i think basicly we all dont want innocent people do get hurt in those attacks BUT when i see demonstrations in countries like pakistan, and here in Gaza, and other places i must ask myself: are those people innocent?
those people spending their lifes in growing their hate towards the non muslim west, while if they would leave their fanatism they could live just as well as we do
i mean those guys hate you just because you have a good life, and you can afford things they cant. most of them are so fanatics that they would shoot any american they can, if they had the chance. they are not that innocent, this is one of the only cases when people should be counted as guilty until proved he is not.
there are too much hate for the west, in the muslim countries and my guess is sooner or later they'll conquer the west if the west wont do something

i know this post is full of hate, but its really hard to me to turn on the news every hour and to find out that the usa and europe prefer to close their eyes on those things, and the usa even will give finance support to pakistan when everyday there are demonstrations of hate against america there.

im not even talking about the plo anymore, where few people were shot down yesterday by their own police because they hold a bin laden support demonstration, when their official possition is supposed to be against him.

"i mean those guys hate you just because you have a good life, and you can afford things they cant"
I think that's an over simplification... I mean in mexico there is anti-government and anti-american feeling as they feel that america (and it's big companies) are taking advatage of the corrupt mexican government so the poor poeple are no longer garanteed land (i'm reffering to what happened on the 1st Jan in 94). That's just one example of a group of poeple who don't like america, and it's not because these poeple are fanatical poeple who will hate good ol' america no matter what! There a lot of poeple who feel this way, because of the forign policies...
There are alot of rich arab countries (oman for example). The arab countries are a little different as they see america openly backing thier enemy Israil!...
If we start to presume poeple guilty, that's a dissaster for the poor guy on the street who ends up with a wash-up alcoholic lawyer, and will go to prison even though they're innocent! The "innocent till proven guilty" is what makes our justice system civilized...

"i know this post is full of hate" i hope not! Emotional maybe!
Zepplin: i know you have every reason to dislike muslims, but you have to see it's not religion versus religion, It's now become the rich and powerful versus the silent weak poor... I'm extremly sorry to hear about the plane that was shot down by the Ukrains

I saw 2 photos in the newspaper today. The first was a demonstration in Pakistan where a man was setting a US flag on fire in front of a crowd. The second photo was of the same scene only the fire spread and had caught half the mans body on fire. Just so you all know how Pakistan feels about the US.

Originally posted by Zeppelin
i think basicly we all dont want innocent people do get hurt in those attacks BUT when i see demonstrations in countries like pakistan, and here in Gaza, and other places i must ask myself: are those people innocent?
those people spending their lifes in growing their hate towards the non muslim west, while if they would leave their fanatism they could live just as well as we do
i mean those guys hate you just because you have a good life, and you can afford things they cant. most of them are so fanatics that they would shoot any american they can, if they had the chance. they are not that innocent, this is one of the only cases when people should be counted as guilty until proved he is not.
there are too much hate for the west, in the muslim countries and my guess is sooner or later they'll conquer the west if the west wont do something

i know this post is full of hate, but its really hard to me to turn on the news every hour and to find out that the usa and europe prefer to close their eyes on those things, and the usa even will give finance support to pakistan when everyday there are demonstrations of hate against america there.

im not even talking about the plo anymore, where few people were shot down yesterday by their own police because they hold a bin laden support demonstration, when their official possition is supposed to be against him.

I find blanket statements a waste of breath and an affront to logic. I realize that you have an entirely different perspective on this than I do, but also realize that mine is fairly objective- I don't consider a few hundred to a couple thousand people demonstrating in a city of millions to be the will of the people. Maybe the extream manifestation of general public sentiment, but it isn't going make me want to stop my tax dollars being spent to help people. As for the Palistinian and Pakistani governments... I know they know which side their bread is buttered on. I don't like seeing measures being taken to stop protests that would be illegal here in the US, but at the same time I realize that if they aren't taken, a very vocal minority could end up hurting their people a lot more in the long run.

This is a huge task: We have to not only go after a very elusive group of people, but we have to consolidate world opinion to our side. This I think is more a PR battle than a war. The real test of the American people (and the rest of the world for that matter) will come when we face up to the pressures that drive people to hate and to kill. We all have to look to ourselves, we all have to look and say "I'm partly to blame here." The world is a very dynamic system- everything we do relates to everybody else one way or another. I don't see us ever finding total world peace, not in my time, probably not in my children's, but I hope that one day people can learn to live and let live. The world must unify.

In the meantime, all I can do is live my life and brace for impact. To be honest, I'm more afraid of dieing alone than I am of death itself. Afterall, some jerkoff could choke on his coffee on my way to Burlington tomorow, run me off I-89 at 80 mph and into a granite wall.

'nuff said. Terrorists really don't worry me.

Originally posted by blackrose
The second photo was of the same scene only the fire spread and had caught half the mans body on fire.

Yeah, I saw that. That was great.

Guys, I know it can be disheartening that hate is spreading so rapidly in this world. And the old saying "fight fire with fire" is even sickening for a lot of people to contemplate, but the bottom line here is that if we don't retaliate there's no telling when or where the next act of hate/terrorism will hit this country.

I don't like this any more than you guys do, but the fact of the matter is that it's not all about revenge, it's all about preventing this from happening again. It's easy to say that we could simply try to make others understand where we're coming from, but it's not that easy, because peace isn't on their minds. What they want is to destroy our homeland and everything we believe in at all costs. It's basically an ongoing suicide mission, and they will stop at nothing.

New York City, I've been there several times in my life, and to one day start a family, I don't want to have to worry about destruction. I want to bring my kids up in a world where we don't have to constantly live in fear or terrorism. It's impossible to eliminate terrorism altogether, however for a lot of people our current military actions is a good start.

I hate to think that this world has come to war, but the longer we wait to retaliate, there's no telling what will happen next. As American's, it's true that we can no longer afford to lose face.


What most people don't realize, or want to admit is that for years in foreign countries, people have been planning an attack on America, and it's never going to stop if we continue to look away.

-Joseph