america under attack !!!!

a real messed up thing that happend today pisses me off let me know how you guys feel about this.....may those people rest in peace and those basterds pay for what they did...

Those bastards do need to pay, and anyone else who was envolved should also be on the hit list. we should hit them hard. And what pissed me off was that my football game was cancelled.

America was attacked, and thousands of innocent people died.

I can only hope that the leadership in Washington can get past the rhetoric and the platitudes and form a powerful response.

This is a huge deal. Never has there been a terrorist attack of this magnitude in history. And because relations have been on the edge with many middle-east countries for so long, we need to be very careful with this. I'm scared to see what President Bush is going to do. I think retaliation caould be a mistake if we let it get out of hand. A real war could open up very easily. It makes me realize just how vulnerable we really are, and all this talk of security and safety is mostly just an illusion.

It's easy to point fingers and blame people because of anger and American pride, but we need to realize that these kinds of attacks are brought about by small groups of radicals and not entire countries, even though they harbor these terrorists and there is a general hatred for the U.S. in that region. Knowing that Osama Bin-Laden may be a leader for many of these groups, we should definately go after him and any associated people, but we need to be very careful about it. If our emotions get the best of us, then we lose sight of reality and no one wins.

We should learn from this event and try to strengthen our weak areas while taking necessary precautions to prevent future incidents like this. If we as a nation and a world do not change our current methods of dealing with each other, then things will only escalate because of retaliation. Look at what's happening between Israelites and Palestinians. It's just an endless circle of payback and revenge. It solves nothing. If we don't change, then all the lives lost today will have been wasted and dishonored.

May God be with the victims and their families of this horrible tragedy.

- Erik Hagen (ekstasis16@hotmail.com)

[Edited by ekstasis16 on 09-12-2001 at 02:27 AM]

It is extremly sad that so many poeple died, and no notice was given before hand.
Lets not get hasty in blaming the middle east, the last big terrorist attack was Mc Vay, and he killed 125+ poeple, and this also got blamed on the middle east at first, so please don't belive in all that you hear at the minute.

"Never has there been a terrorist attack of this magnitude in history. "
-1.5 million inoccent iraqi citizens have died under the santions/ bombing over the last ten years, and no-one bats an eye lid. THIS is the worst terrorist attack in history.

God rest the souls of the poeple who died.

One last thing, poeple are talking about action already. You may have not noticed that the president was hiding in a nuclear bunker. This is alot more serious than you think. This is a suicidal group (no one knows how big, could have been just the group yesterday, could be more), extremly similar to the kamikazi pilots in the second world war, and there is no way to fight someone willing to die.

"Look at what's happening between Israelites and Palestinians"
To be honest my freind it's hard to find neurtal and fair reporting on the suject, but the mortality figures show the plaestinains are getting kicked in the teeth.

God bless.

There are reports that the world trade center was evacuated quite well, meaning alot of poeple got out, so the fatalities aren't as high as they could have been. Iknow this is no concellation, but it some good news.

I agree with Chris


Mark

As a citizen of Israel, who knows what terror is about very well, first of all i want to tell all the Americans, we are with you in this war against the terror, and may the god help all the victims of this terror act, hopefuly this will be somehow the last terror attack of its kind
the second thing i must to say, is that in the fight against terror there IS such a thing as right and wrong sides, there is no reason for anyone in this world to kill innocent people, and from our long expirience with the terror, the people behind it understand only the words of powerfull reaction, and that's why in my opinion the USA has to use all of their military might against the people responsible for this act of terror

educatedfilm: the palestinians dont get kicked in the teeth, Israel did try to solve the problem in peacful way, which turned out to be the wrong way, because even when we were in the middle of negotiations cars were blowing up in the middle of our cities, like Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. in case you didnt watch the news, or somehow missed it, the palestinians went to the streets yesterday and shown their happiness because thousands of americans were hurt, all this while only because of america the PLO exist anyway. those terror muslim based groups are against everybody, this is no matter of israel or usa or whatever anymore, it is fundametalistic islam against the rest of the world

I urge poeple to stay calm! This isn't gonna be solved by one strike. please think it through, this could very realistcally end as another veitnam. Osama Ben laden is being blamed, which is what expected, he was blamed for oklahoma (Mc Vaye was responsible) and he's being blamed for this. They've arrested four/ five poeple, exactly the same as oklahoma when as sirean man was arrested within 24 hours, and it was the wrong guy.

Zepplin: the palastinains ARE getting it very badly. There is no excuse to why they are 2Nd class citizens. There is no excuse for the exsistance settelment on the westbank which are illegal by international law. There is no excuse for isreal and (unfortunatly) the US pulling out of the south africa summit on Rasicm. There is no excuse to why fully armoured soldier should shoot with live amunition at kids.There is no reason to build roads wich cut through what little land the palestians are crammed into, which basically act like mini Berlin walls, as they can cross them or go near them. That's why they shoot at drivers. THere is no excuse to give jewish settlers weapons, and let them "patrol" arab areas. There is no excuse for isreal to deny the UN acess to investigate the use of force.
THE plo is a token group, it has NO POWER. this has been proved by the fact that isreal has put pen to paper and then gone, and nobody has said a thing (eg the OSLO peace accord, promised palastinains an independant state, by May 2000, where is this?). It is very likely that if US wasn't so connected to isreal this wouldn't happen. Anyway what do we get back from Isreal, that warrants so much tax payers money? JAVA oranges?


Ofcourse there going to celebrate, it's because of us that they are 2nd class citizens, and we fund the poeple on their land. So called "charites" help to raise money to keep this rasict state going, and we sell them weapons.
I belive humans are humans, no matter the colour or religon, and islam is a religion (very similar to judaism, which is something that jews and muslims deny, even though there are some many clear parralells), and it condems attacks on civilains as murder (which it is).This should not be blamed on a religion!


[Edited by educatedfilm on 09-12-2001 at 12:31 PM]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not start bad-mouthing Israel. We may be allies, but this is what happens in times of war. That region is upset with the U.S. because we are such a big world power; very developed, and we have been complete assholes to each other over the years. And even though many of the countries there or many of the people there are rejoicing at the attack yesterday, they are still innocent people and retaliating against them would make the U.S. no better. I hope the American government is trying to find out which radical group was actually involved in this, and bring them to 'justice', whatever that means. It would be typical if they make someone a scapegoat just to satisfy the American people and make us feel like justice has been served.

I urge poeple to stay calm! There are solutions that don't involve bombing countries. The talaban have said they'de hand over Ben Laden if there is enough evidence to show he's guilty (which at the moment there isn't, just sensationalist sepeculation to sell newspapers). Give them the chance to do so, this could all be solved with out trajedy if we act sensibly.
There is still the probability of Americans being responsible (let's be honest capitilism and all that stands for it isn't very popular at the minute whith some americans/canadians, you only need to see the may-day riots for that).

"and bring them to 'justice', whatever that means. It would be typical if they make someone a scapegoat just to satisfy the American people and make us feel like justice has been served."
This is absolutly true.
THere is no reason not to "bad mouth" isreal, that country has one of the worst human rights records, and has a hell of a lot more enemies than we have, which means we get dragged into this (if it turns out to be linked to the middle east). We also side with them, we've yet to take any action on anything that isreal has done wrong, other than some token jestures, like when it invades 100meters of an arab area we just condemed it, we didn't actaully do anything.

[Edited by educatedfilm on 09-12-2001 at 01:00 PM]

Israel's civil rights bad records???
look on all the countries around man... why should i respect any declaration, when all my enemies dont respect it?? people from IDF who were in syrian prisons during the wars came back totaly broken mentaly and physicaly, there is no reason for us not to act in the same way against syrians and other arabians in our prisons...
dont forget that israeli arabians have their own parties, and they are members of our parlament, and you can hear them every few weeks saying they want israel to be destroyed... man we are not the bad guys here.. we were given this land by the UN, the muslims never wanted to accept it, so they just started to make more and more wars. did you know that the leader of the christian phalangs that was responsible for the massacre in sabra and shatillah was later a minister in lebanon's parlament??? so how can they blame sharon at anything???
open your eyes.. leave all the human rights alone for the second, because there are no humans against us all but only cold blood killers.
look what's going on in russia.. for years they supported arabian aggressions and now they suffering from it themselves.. you can always blame them with thing, and the yugoslavian and anyone else, but the fact is: you have muslims sooner or later you'll have terror

"Shooting at unarmed kids"????
in case you didnt know it israeli army IS made of kids, im 18 in another half year, and i'm going to serve my country
and what do you expect from soildgers to do when molotov ****teils and stones are thrown at them???? to take stones and to throw them back or maybe redraw????
they send their kids to throw stones, only because they have dozens of them as so they dont care if one or five of them are dead.... they dont use regular army not because they are so nice, but because they dont have one. they use any possible weapon they can, and the reason for plo being weak is the fact that most of the palestinians support other terrorist organizations and not plo
probably as well you dont know what is the definition of racism if you call israel racist country... israel WAS NOT THE FIRST to start the bloody mess in the region, since 1920 the arabians here, who mostly sold their lands to the jews, are using their favorite weapon against others: terror
the position of the arabians in israel is because they were never loyal to this country, and guess what we dont want to be burned and choked with gaz again, so we want a jewish state, not an another muslim one
what is so racist about nation wanting to have their own country??? that is what zionism is about nothing more..
judaism and islam ARE NOT ALIKE we dont have the Jihad thing, and we dont urged to kill innocent people by our religion

You sorry usa quit the stupid summit??? do you want to see usa paying big money to the black people, when most of the slave traders were muslims????
do you think it is really israel the racist country, when all the countries that dont give a damn about people like cuba and others come together and say israel is racist country?

"look what's going on in russia.. for years they supported arabian aggressions and now they suffering from it themselves.." The russians supported those with a sympathy towards comunist intrests (some of these were arab countries).

"open your eyes.. leave all the human rights alone for the second, because there are no humans against us all but only cold blood killers. " Sorry, the way i see it, their country was taken away from them in 48, the poeple who came along amd considered them as crap, so a lot of plastinians left, some stayed and were just refugees for years, and some took isreali passports (these arabs aren't accapted in dailly life, in the last "INTIFADA", there were no fatalities due to the isreali army among the jewish citezens, but there were fatalities when it came to the isreali arabs). It's a shame amnisty international sees these "cold blooded killers" as humans. Hell man, you even have extradudicail excutions for the arab fanatics (alot of these poeple are innocent, but isreal has a policy of shoot them all and let god sort them out), but for the isreali fanatic how assasinated your president there's a prison sentance. Don't tell me there's no double standards there.

"in case you didnt know it israeli army IS made of kids, im 18 in another half year, and i'm going to serve my country"
i know about this, and your an adult when you turn 18. You also are given weapons and armour.

Hi to all, I am an Englishman and feel shocked and disgusted that such an attrocity could have taken place.

I was in Manchester when the IRA bombed the city center and was lucky to be unhurt as glass and debris fell around me. Over here terrorist attacks are expected and often occur but the magnetude and scale of the attack upon the American people and its land is more than anyone can understand or make sense of. I believe that the American people will strive to overcome this act of terrorism and agree that it was not just an attack on the USA but indeed on the free world as well but alas the Country who was used in this cruel and sadistic attack was our Friends....America.

I feel however that those passengers who were on board not only suffered a terrible death but they sffered more because they knew what their fate was before the planes hit.

My heart goes out to all those affected and especially the dead.


For what its worth I believe that England feels the loss for you and yours and will help in anyway we can.

Be strong, be brave and prove to the cowards that they have won or gained nothing except hate from the rest of the world.

GOD BLESS ALL.

first of all :
there were never never such a thing palestinian state, so we didnt take anything.. most of the lands on which israel was supposed to be were lands that locals sold to the jewish settlers during 1900-1948.
second: in 1916 a pact of good will between arabian and jewish nations was signed. the people then there will be only two countries a jewish one, and a so called palestinian one, which is Jordan, in case you dont know..
in 1920 the palestinians went mad, and started to kill innocent jewish settlers.. since then we dont like them... they were first to violate the peace, and they are always first to start a war.. you telling me israeli arabians were killed during the intifada??? few months ago black riotes were shot down in cininati (dont know how to spell it right)
so we are not the only bad guys here.. the difference is that black people are american loyal citizens, while our arabian citizens want to throw us to the sea..
you say i'll get armor and weapon???? yes i will, and so are the palestinians, otherwise how can you explain the fact that everyday israelis are being shot on the roads?
the palestinian terrorist are being assasinated because there's no posible way to bring them to court.. the plo never arest them for more than 3 days, and our police cant enter palestinian cities to arest them
and one more fact the arabians in israel are not serving in the army, most of them according to official statistics dont pay taxes, and yet they have realy good life here.. maybe the palestinians in plo suffer , but their brothers here life like kings, they can afford things that their muslim brothers in othe countries just cant. the reason that most of them are uneducated is their culture, not government policy

the last thing: few years ago my family choosed merez on the election, and as you probably dont know merez is our most radical left winged party, which means they are the most peacful people around
since then many things happened and believe me no one here will ever thing again about choosing them... the palestinian policy turned even the most peacful people into people who think there's no chance to the peace..
belive me one day even you'll understand it
i suggest we stop this arguing right here, because you dont live here and you dont know most of the facts, and i'm growing tired of people, who even when 10000 of them are killed by muslim radical terrorist organizations still think there is a place for some stupid declarations, rejected by the other side years ago

[Edited by Zeppelin on 09-12-2001 at 04:05 PM]

"and what do you expect from soildgers to do when molotov ****teils and stones are thrown at them????" YOu forget to mention that the soldiers are in the palastinain area (eg Gazza or Ramalla), when there is no need for them to be there in such numbers.The whole reason of the palastian police was to sort this out.
"and the reason for plo being weak is the fact that most of the palestinians support other terrorist organizations and not plo " you make this sound like a chicken and the egg situation. When america, the worlds biggest super power, a country based on democracy, where every one is equal and has a right to live,doesn't step in, and acts like the school bully's big brother at the nogotiating table, does it matter what the palastinian think? They cant do anything. Very few manage to get thier hands on some fertilzer etc to make home made bombs, but what's that to an army (funded by us).
I find your comment about them not carring about thier kids insulting. THis should be the same to anyone even with a below average IQ.

"be burned and choked with gaz again, so we want a jewish state" So because your grandparents were persicuted, gives you the right to persicute poeple who have done absoloutly nothing wrong.

"what is the definition of racism if you call israel racist country" It is a country set up for one RACE. The fact that most american tax payers who have indeed funded this state, cant claim a dime from it, because of their race. In my book this is racist. Not to mention they've been treating their arab citizen and nieghbours as turds.

"judaism and islam ARE NOT ALIKE we dont have the Jihad thing" Do you know what "JIHAD" means? It means doing for the sake of god, which includes giving to charity comuinity work etc, it's a shame the media has only picked up on the military side of it. Islam condems the killing of citizen (as i said earlier). Anyway, certain white supremist groups belive they are special and more "divine", judiasim belives that jews are "gods children" there is no mention about the rest of us. Taking fact and distorting them like i have done in my example above is easy, that's why i urge poeple to be clam, and take waht the media says with a pinch of salt.
"You sorry usa quit the stupid summit??? do you want to see usa paying big money to the black people, when most of the slave traders were muslims????" Hmmm,all of those slave traders in america over the last 200 years were muslim?
You cant blame muslims for everything. You do know that some of the slaves are from african muslim desent. Actually there is debate whether to compensate descendant of black slaves.
I'm sorry you find a summit which would like to take steps to lessen the extent of rasicm in the world "stupid", to me when a melting pot country pulls out of a summit like that there are issues.

your comment about countries like Cuba (i'm guesing you mean bannana repulblics), we have stepped in on Cuba before, only to get our fingers burned.(the whole cuba missle crissis thing). We do not go out of our way to give them a hard time in the hope they leave the counrty, as is the case in isreal.

THere is no reason that you should have a Jewish only state, why not take a leaf from south africa's book, give them equal rights, equal opportunities? This whole mess could be solved if your willing to share!


[Edited by educatedfilm on 09-13-2001 at 06:15 AM]

Zepplin this isn't personal...I'm only offering my oppinion for all it's worth. I think that all humans are equal. Claims of atrocities are easy to make, but it takes amnisty international years to prove these are lies. So the media can get away with making mountians of mole hills. Can demonise nation,and some how make it right in sick distorted way that it's right to just "eliminate" the poeple, and if there are heavy casualties then so be it.
All i ask of people is to be strong at this time, and try to keep our cool, this needn't turn into an all out war.

thank you

hey wait a minute,

Israel under Rabin and Sharon have made concession after concession to the palestinians, Israel has done more for peace then the probably should have. Israel has never initiated a conflict, all of them have been started by the surrounding arab countries. Israel is willing to do anything for peace, and have tried very hard.

In addition who do you think is allowing, and encouraging the kids to provoke the Israeli soldiers. Arafat Why isn't doing something to prevent them from attacking the soldiers? He is willing to sacfrice these kids to generate negative views toward Israel. Though, i don't live in Israel, i have studied (objectively) it a great deal in Hebrew School, and have been to many speeches about Israel's status.

Israel wants peace now, and are willing to do almost anything for it. anything they do, is in self-defense.

Finally, this is a guitar forum. Let's try to stay on topic.

I feel like i'm banging my head against a brick wall! They are still 2nd class citizens, and there is no reason for them to be so!
The idea that kids are being organised is a pile of dung. ANd when kids throw stones, does that warrent live ammunition? Come on poeple use your heads.
Why isn't the palestinain police being alowed to do thier bit? I thought the whole reason in them being there.

If isreal really wants peace, how come settlers are given guns and alowed to "patrol" arab areas? How come the west bank is expanding?
Some one said the arabs are uneducated because of their culture, the fact that thier schools are far inferior has nothing to do with it? The only jobs for them are those are in construction, where they actaully build new homes over for other poeple over theri old homes. Do you think kids are gonna be motivated by a future like that?

Your education has alot to do with your veiws, i seem to be the only one who has done some nuetral reaserch. Arabs hate isreal cos they're only told about the bad things they've done. Isrealis hate the arabs as they're told about how arabs have killed and how they're no way of talking to them.

I'm gonna have to end this debate as i'm having to repeat my self, and you cant show poeple the light over night.

I hope it all turns out well, for everyone's sake.

[Edited by educatedfilm on 09-12-2001 at 05:12 PM]