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tammielyn.ts
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tammielyn.ts
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12/09/2020 1:58 am

hey

so, since may/june been in the part of the course of learning the chords, just recently in chapter 5, learned the rest of the chords, Bm, F, etc., So, imagining all the possible chord transitions, which are numerous, is it safe to say it takes very long to get completely smooth and good at this venture. my fingers still quiver and muscles in my fingers really feel it and i'm not good at chord transitions at all yet. I struggle. i am doing everything possible, devoting the time daily and yet in the context of a song, i lose it and struggle., i guess i'm one of those people whom it will take a year or even more to master chord changes perfectly. i just need some encouragement, bc i am getting frustrated. between doing the course, learning songs and keeping it fun, i have 3 elements to my 'class' i do everyday. Fun-learning songs, fingerpicking songs too, and i do alot at once, songs that is, and i enjoy this and don't want to limit this, i do a section of my daily practice with just chord changes, watched numerous videos on tricks tips etc, which helped, and thirdly keeping up with the Guitar Tricks course., i spend 1-2 hours per day., i mean from where i was a year ago, just beginning i am thrilled with my guitar learning and am really proud., but this chord change smoothly and perfectly i am frustrated with., i mean i guess if i was perfect already at that, i would be intermediate., so i am being way to hard on myself, but i do need to hear from the vets that it does take long to master ALL the possible chord changes. i just researched in this forum finger exercises etc, bc my fingers after 10 minutes of chord change practicing quiver bc they 'want to go the opposite way' and my feel 'glued together', so i will try to do exercises too, sorry for the ramble. help.


# 1
Herman10
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Herman10
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12/09/2020 2:28 am

Warming up with stretches for both hands and fingers is a must, then what do you mean with all the possible chord changes? the seven ( even 6 if you leave the diminished out ) chords per scale is all it takes, not much use in learning let's say C to F# since they will normally never appear in the same song unless you are into jazz.


# 2
manXcat
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manXcat
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12/09/2020 3:56 am

Hi tammielyn

[br]First words of encouragment.

We all learn and progress at different rates. Guitar is no exception.

[br]We all experience frustration differently according to individual temperament, and deal with it differently. More on that in a moment.

I recall that in October you complained about personal comfort issues with your FS800 (it is a Concert body) and asked for suggestions for an even smaller bodied more comfortable fitting guitar and seat for guitar. Did you end up with either? If so, what?

Have you had your guitar set up? Important. Although there's less to adjust, because of the string gauge & type, usually wound and higher action, more so with an acoustic.

[u]Occasional[/u] frustration is a normal. Part and parcel of learning guitar.

Again, we all have different frustration thresholds and temperaments as to how we handle it. Someone prone to an emotional reaction might be overwhelmed by it, becoming extremely despondent and negative. On the other hand someone less prone to that like me hardly even recognises what others perceive as frustrating as frustration, seeing it as a personal or technical challenge which engages characteristics of determination, perseverance which I actually enjoy mindful of the elation which I know from past experience will follow when I break through and succeed. Yes, a form of mild masochism I know. o.O

So I'd say, [u]know thyself[/u], and deal with frustration as best suits [u]your[/u] temperament. Perhaps switch to something fun you're already competent or more comfortable and confident with in the learning reinforcement process when the frustration reaches your tolerance threshold. Perhaps take a day or two break away from it completely if necessary and come back refreshed?

Literal [u]perfection[/u] or [u]mastery[/u] are two words and objectives I wouldn't apply to the learning process. That will only come in time with reinforcement and repetition. Watch some Tommy Emmanual videos on YT to see what's entailed in "mastery". Kudos. WOW! An acceptable demonstrated standard of the lesson obective is the immediate short term goal.

On goals and objectives, set yours, but make it fun with a pleasing pragmatic achievable goal. For instance pick just one easy, but popular progression, i.e. I–vi–IV–V in your preferred key, and work on it with a metronome. Start easy, say 80BPM or less if necessary, and when you've got it rhythmically happening at that tempo, up the tempo incrementally to that of a song you like which uses it. Soon enough you'll be playing that song. The core of doo wop, a zillion 50's songs were written using that progression. e.g. in G major,G-Em-C-D chord a slow tempo "Stand By Me" ; in C major that'd be C–Am–F–G (G7 but you can fudge with G, or use G7) for "Angel Baby" at an even slower really easy tempo. You CAN do this.

1-2 hours practice a day (every day, seriously?) would/should be killing it over any initial twelve months (ref your join date).

There are [u]a lot[/u] of chord permutations, so as Herman said, until you're playing Jazz, work on need to know. By the end of Fundamentals 2, you have those and others you'll want for particular songwriters or songs you love will be acquired and added to your personal repertoire as needed. Most people converse with a very limited vocabulary compared to what's avaiilable even in any concise edition dictionary. Playing popular guitar isn't really much different.

[br]Warm up those hands and fingers before playing chords. It's a rule I confess to breaking myself more often than I should, but over several sessions any day. In any case, even if I don't do warm up drills, I usually begin and end by playing scales which are in themselves an ersatz warmup and stretching exercise.

Lastly good luck with it. Don't give in to frustration. You've got this!

All the best.

manXcat


# 3
ddiddler
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ddiddler
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12/09/2020 9:56 am

I'm at the same stage as yourself .

I practice all the 1 ,1V , V changes in each key . I will start to include the iv chord . Thanks ManxCat

I'm doing them but nowhere near quick enough for songs unless it's 1 strum in each bar but hey that would be a play along.

What am noticing is that the fingers are hitting the right places without looking on more and more occassions. My sounds are clean so I'm getting there

Bit of strumming patterns, bit of finger picking and hey ho that's another session done.

Slow progress is frustrating but we just keep on going

Even bad guitar is better than no guitar.


# 4
William MG
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William MG
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12/09/2020 11:40 am

Slow everything way down Tammie when you are finding it hard. I will have 2 years in this January and cannot in any way say I have anything mastered. I dont' even imagine a day when that will happen. I am happy at this stage if I can play along to my favorite songs and give a "reasonable performance".

You have good study habits, dedicating 1 - 2 hours a day, I do the same. Be patient, accept the frustration that we can't do what we want in the time we want to do it and take your successes when you get them, no matter how small they may seem at the time.

Good luck.


This year the diet is definitely gonna stick!

# 5
tammielyn.ts
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tammielyn.ts
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12/09/2020 4:46 pm

Thanks so much everyone for all the suggestions! After having read the replies i am more proud of myself and less frustrated. I am a very determined person, and actually love the process of working on something difficult. And yes, seriously i do practice that much and hopefully i misunderstand your reply that i should be killing it, i interpret that as being not struggling. I can play many songs quite beautifully and smoothly, so i will stop my whining. i only felt is this normal to still struggle at times., but the song i'm currently learning is Let it Be and yes there is a chord change from G-Am-F-C, so that is a new chord change progression for me, going from Am-F-C, i actually find the closer the chord the more difficult, as aposed to chords further from each other with no common string or note. Yes, i had my guitar set up and feel good about the instrument itself thanks for remembering. And with regards my start up date, not sure if you did the Guitar Fundamentals !, but you don't begin the major chords until chapter 4-5 so regardless of my start date, i took my time with each lesson and chapter and devoting the time i did to get it right, not speed along, so yes, i began in Spring this year with learning the 5 power pack chords and changes and just recently in the end of chapter 5 is when GT teaches the rest of the chords,E, A, F, B, Bm, Dm. So this is fairly recent in my Fundamental 1 So lisa teaches to do each possible chord transition one at a time, which i agree with learning that way. So having said that it is new for me just learning the F chord and now transitioning to the C, all in the context of a song, but i a came to the realization this past week in my life which applies to learning this beautiful instrument to not be hard on myself, but to apply gentleness with enough mental strength. i find as you manXcat that i feel elation to stick with a difficult thing and to triumph over it and this will be over and over again throughout the years. Ijust recently decided to apply my fingerpicking learning to a song out of GT You are My Sunhine and Jasmine Thompson's rendition with a Capo on the 5th fret, just by watching her and listening carefully i picked it up in a few days and am now playing it for my grandaughter. So going to focus on what my body and brain and work and effort has accomplished.

"Literal perfection or mastery are two words and objectives I wouldn't apply to the learning process. That will only come in time with reinforcement and repetition. Watch some Tommy Emmanual videos on YT to see what's entailed in "mastery". Kudos. WOW! An acceptable demonstrated standard of the lesson obective is the immediate short term goal"

love this and this will really help! Thank you. You mentioned doing 80bpm in a chord transition being easy., that's my problem, i am still at 60 if i go through chord transitions. in songs, i can do a faster tempo than 80 if i've been working on the song for awhile., so i'll continue to 'grind it out' as my hubby says and keep being positive.

Interesting you mention Stand by Me, that is a song i do play and with an RnB strumming pattern, percussive sound. Proud of that one. I have learned the riff i guess it's called at the beginning of Tennessee Whiskey and play that song, and Perfect by Ed Sheeran and so on, so i am progressing but found it odd that i still struggle with chord changes. i've since read that its natural for my fingers to be dependant on one another bc of the muscle grouping so i've printed a sheet of exercises to do when watching tv, so i'll get back to you on that one. Thanks for the feedback, encouragement, nudge if you will to keep it positive! Can always count on GT forum of guitar heros to help!


# 6
snojones
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snojones
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12/10/2020 6:35 pm

You have the right attitude, you have good practice habits, and you are sticking to it. This puts you way beyond most people who are here to learn guitar! That should be your ticket to ride. Just keep at it and you will become the guitarist you want to be. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.


Captcha is a total pain in the........

# 7
tammielyn.ts
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tammielyn.ts
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12/12/2020 1:12 am

snojones THANKYOU! i will save your message i actually had a real breakthrough this week and don't realize how i am ready to go blind. my fingers know where these chords are and i need to jump this bridge and not look anymore, and i watched a video that said to find your 'sweet spot' where YOUR fingers feel most comfortable to make the chord and believe it or not the D chord where i have really struggled, silly as it may seem, in a faster song to nail it without issue i finally can this week after having taken that advice, so onward i go! thanks again bud


# 8
snojones
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snojones
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12/12/2020 6:10 pm

Irony can mess with you when you are attempting to learn a new gritar skill. Frequently mastering a new skill will just show up. up to that point, you pratice and practice with seemingly little progress. Then you just relax and trusts your body and it gets up and preforms like it has been doing this for years. Kind of surprising and controdictory. You won't get there without all those hours of woodshedding....simply won't happen sans practice, patience, and persistance. However it can also be the case that after all that work the final step to mastery is just relaxing, shutting off the brain and letting the body take over.

In fact, it is actually Muscle Memory that you are working on, but muscle memory takes place below the concious mind and so it frequently will surprise you. The brain likes to take credit, but the knowledge accrues on an entirely diffrent account. That is where the surprise comes form. I have seen this kind of surprise described by many here on GT.

So the short version is ......Congradulations... you are learning the knobs and levers of being a guitarist. Way to go... now, get back to practicing


Captcha is a total pain in the........

# 9
manXcat
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manXcat
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12/12/2020 9:51 pm

@ tammielyn.ts

First congratulations putting in the work! [u]High praise[/u] from me on that. There is no substitute for it AFAIC&K. EDIP (Explain, Demonstrate, Imitate, Practice) until "practice makes perfect", keeping the definition of "perfect" in relative perspective regarding guitar skills as previously discussed.

Yes I did F1 & F2, the former some time ago now, so can't recall off-hand with out cross-referencing what each Chapter and every specific incremental step within their syllabi contained.

Importantly, play songs more, ones [u]you[/u] love even if seemingly a step beyond where you are now. I admit to learning and playing songs being a [u]daily[/u] focus for me as important as anything else on the curve. Apart from the sheer enjoyment it brings, each brings fresh challenges setting a mindset and pattern of regularly succeeding in overcoming them producing a pragmatic, tangible, aural result, which naturally, involves and instills repetition "the mother of skill" as a habit, and of course, adds to one's personal chord, riff, lick and song repertoires.

With BPM. Start as slowly as necessary. I didn't start out playing "She Loves You" at 150BPM or its bluesy dyad lick (no timed links on GT, but listen to the end of the intro as it transitions to verse) let alone transitioning smoothly between the end of the intro, prechorus and chorus with it when I was learning the song. Nor the intro lick to "Revolution" at tempo, but I really, really wanted to play both and persisted. [br][br]I was less than six months into learning guitar as best I recall when I attempted "She Loves You", and did it seem hard/challenging at that time -understatement! I stuck at it though, until I could play it from begining to end fluidly and without mistakes at tempo. Both are utter repetition rote no brainers now. Loving and playing Beatles songs from early on, many of which are at that kind of brisk tempo, rendered anything under 120BPM perceived as easy. That's not the pointlessly boastful superficiality of ego asserting itself. Just how the experience presented for me. Try it it. Might be for you too, or not. Doesn't matter. It's [u]your[/u] journey. But I digress.

Slow down the tempo, learn the parts, stitch them together, then work up to tempo whether it takes hours, days or weeks. You may discover as you progress, if as for me, the learning curve reveals as exponential in terms of ease. [u]Determination, persistence, repetition, patience, time[/u]. Ain't no shortcut for those I yet know of.

That's it really. Attitude, determination, patience and discipline to persevere are 90% of the learning guitar or anything worthwhile job requirement in my book. Most important of all, [u]maintain the enjoyment in it all[/u], whatever that takes for you.

Best.

manXcat


# 10
robin79noordh
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robin79noordh
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12/12/2020 10:45 pm

I knew all the standard major and minor chords from when I was younger in bouth open and barre when I starten anew, but the 9:th and 11:th chords threw me off becouse my fingers did'nt bend to do that movement before.

It's just like learning the chords I knew, repetition and finger memory.


# 11
JOMJ
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JOMJ
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12/14/2020 9:39 am

Hi I am a beginner myself but I do know about learning, setting goals etc.

Perhaps it might help to let go a little bit where you want to end up as a guitarist and realize, you are already a guitarist. Perhaps not the level you want to be, but you are. So try to enjoy the process because this is the process and will be forever and ever. When you are 10 years ahead, you might either play the same songs over and over, or challenge yourself again to learn something deeper.

What i've been thinking about a little bit the last week was: What do I want to get out of learning how to play the guitar?

I heard myself saying: Well, I want to play at night, to chill out and play some blues. Enjoying myself, but also learning. Just, playing guitar.

Hmmmmmmmm that's what I am doing now!

So, yes, I am now learning the most basics of guitar, but I do imagine that I might be learning how to play Jimmy Hendrix 10 years from now where that note progression (or whatever) just isn't working.

So, long story short, tldr; ... Focus on the proces and not so much on where you want to end up.


"You find a lot of people these days who cannot stand to be alone. You could lock me up in solitary for weeks on end, and I'd keep myself amused."

# 12
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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12/15/2020 9:38 pm
Originally Posted by: Nikriwi123

What i've been thinking about a little bit the last week was: What do I want to get out of learning how to play the guitar?

I heard myself saying: Well, I want to play at night, to chill out and play some blues. Enjoying myself, but also learning. Just, playing guitar.

Hmmmmmmmm that's what I am doing now!

So, yes, I am now learning the most basics of guitar, but I do imagine that I might be learning how to play Jimmy Hendrix 10 years from now where that note progression (or whatever) just isn't working.

So, long story short, tldr; ... Focus on the proces and not so much on where you want to end up.

If I may, and amend this a little bit. I don't think it's any different than what you're thinking though. That is to say that we all pine to be able to play something better than our current skills allow is to play. It is the aspirational part of the instrument. But to your point; don't focus os much on the lofty aspiration (ie - Hendrix) to the detriment of where you're at now.

With that said, if you learn to enjoy the journey of learning guitar and see all the little victories for what they are, victories, you'll enjoy everything you learn along he way.

Though I've been playing for a long and that time helps me with the physical part of learning and therefor less frustration, I learned about player frustration early on. Actually, I was lucky that I didn't have too terribly much frustration but even then and I quickly saw that even learning a little riff or lick was really cool way back when.

I've mentioned many times here that my first two songs were (in order..I think): Rush-Fly by Night and then Led Zep-Black Dog. I had no business learning those songs that early. What did I know? Ignorance is bliss in 1982. Black Dog is to this day still not the easiest riff. I can play it nicely but I will never play it 'naturally'. I still like playing it because it reminds me to be a bit humble in my skill. That there's that one lick that will always get the best of me if I don't pay attention.

I could be frustrated that it will never be natural but I look at as that friend who will give their unvarnished opinion whether or not I want it.

Once you realize that always aspiring to a better skill is part of the guitarists journey, the more you enjoy the fact that there is always something new and awesome to learn.

Though, I do get that at the beginning stages, that easy to say but.....Still, it's all part of the mindset. Most legendary guitar players failed more than anyone around them.


# 13
JOMJ
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JOMJ
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Posts: 102
12/16/2020 9:07 am
Originally Posted by: JeffS65
Originally Posted by: Nikriwi123

What i've been thinking about a little bit the last week was: What do I want to get out of learning how to play the guitar?

I heard myself saying: Well, I want to play at night, to chill out and play some blues. Enjoying myself, but also learning. Just, playing guitar.

Hmmmmmmmm that's what I am doing now!

So, yes, I am now learning the most basics of guitar, but I do imagine that I might be learning how to play Jimmy Hendrix 10 years from now where that note progression (or whatever) just isn't working.

So, long story short, tldr; ... Focus on the proces and not so much on where you want to end up.

If I may, and amend this a little bit. I don't think it's any different than what you're thinking though. That is to say that we all pine to be able to play something better than our current skills allow is to play. It is the aspirational part of the instrument. But to your point; don't focus os much on the lofty aspiration (ie - Hendrix) to the detriment of where you're at now.

With that said, if you learn to enjoy the journey of learning guitar and see all the little victories for what they are, victories, you'll enjoy everything you learn along he way.

Though I've been playing for a long and that time helps me with the physical part of learning and therefor less frustration, I learned about player frustration early on. Actually, I was lucky that I didn't have too terribly much frustration but even then and I quickly saw that even learning a little riff or lick was really cool way back when.

I've mentioned many times here that my first two songs were (in order..I think): Rush-Fly by Night and then Led Zep-Black Dog. I had no business learning those songs that early. What did I know? Ignorance is bliss in 1982. Black Dog is to this day still not the easiest riff. I can play it nicely but I will never play it 'naturally'. I still like playing it because it reminds me to be a bit humble in my skill. That there's that one lick that will always get the best of me if I don't pay attention.

I could be frustrated that it will never be natural but I look at as that friend who will give their unvarnished opinion whether or not I want it.

Once you realize that always aspiring to a better skill is part of the guitarists journey, the more you enjoy the fact that there is always something new and awesome to learn.

Though, I do get that at the beginning stages, that easy to say but.....Still, it's all part of the mindset. Most legendary guitar players failed more than anyone around them.

You said what I meant better than I :)

Do you know Simon Sinek? He had an interesting post on Linkedin the other day. He talked about how when kids go to the tennistable, it always end up with war, cheating, and somebody crying at the end.

When kids play lego, however, this can continue for hours. Some kid may stop, and another may join.

In a way, perhaps learning the guitar is like letting the kid in us back into our lives.


"You find a lot of people these days who cannot stand to be alone. You could lock me up in solitary for weeks on end, and I'd keep myself amused."

# 14

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