whats with all the screaming

I tried growling once. I couldn't talk for 4 days.

I have, like most people, always preferred singing to growling, but growling is okay as long as the words are clearly enunciated. If the vocals are nothing but a garbled roar, as is the case with many bands, I can't see how they can possibly be "more effective".

Originally Posted by: CW14I agree. Some bands make me laugh, and I'm sure that's not what they were aiming for.

Haha, yeah. I read in an encyclopaedia of modern music that when Napalm Death first released their "music", it was so extreme that most critics thought it was a joke.

The Dillinger Escape Plan for real screaming ;)

it's just a matter of opinion, t.b.h. I like some bands with growling and some with clean vocals, mostly I don't like screaming with high voices and such, sometimes I think bands are better off with clean singing and other with growling

it's not about whether or not they're good singers, it's their style to sing and yeah, some really can trash a nice song with it

personally for example, I dislike Emo, sometimes nice music and then some kid comes whining along, I love Dream Theater, Blind Guardian, In Flames, Michael Jackson and Frank Sinatra though :p

Originally Posted by: srpianojrguitarok, so i like a lot of different kinds of music. just not country or rap.
Some things i just dont understand with metal. whats with the screaming?
take trivium for example. they are a good band and have a lot of good songs, but im not a fan of their screaming. like i kind of ignore gunshot to the head of trepidition until like 1:45, cuz then the good parts come on.

well, dude, i totally think that your right man. its like i can appreciate really heavy music but if it like acually makes me to where i cant understand it and **** thats stupid. and pointless
-ally-

Originally Posted by: jiujitsu_jesusI have, like most people, always preferred singing to growling, but growling is okay as long as the words are clearly enunciated. If the vocals are nothing but a garbled roar, as is the case with many bands, I can't see how they can possibly be "more effective".

That's so true. Sure the growling or screaming could put better emotion that they are trying to get across, but that isn't doing any good if nobody knows what the hell the're saying. Plus like ninja said they won't be able to keep that up for long before their throats die.

I think screaming when you're expressing something angry or whatever is all well and good, but it gets old. If you have like one song an album that's just a big screamfest, that's all well and good, but making it so that indistinguishable lyrics that sound like they're being sung by a jungle cat are part of your style, it gets really old. It's like "Yeah, I get it. You're angry."

But then, that's just me. I guess if people are listening to it and enjoying it (and they enjoy it themselves), they're just as legitimate as every other musician/band.

Originally Posted by: dying2live_00First of all, i really don't think the number of posts i made should affect my opinion, especially since this is my first day even signing up to this website anyway, second, i never said all the opinions expressed were ignorant, but i can't help thinking that it's ignorant to say that harsh vocals are crappy and were invented for people who aren't good at clean vocals. this is not factually correct at all and going on guitar sites posting threads about how crappy harsh vocals are is definetley "throwing your weight around" because you can't expect people to respectfully disagree to such an offensive criticism. and again it is more difficult to sing with harsh vocals even though it may sound pretty easy to growl a couple of words, screaming various songs full of harsh vocals is a lot more exhilarating and consists of straining the vocal chords a lot more. also, even though it may also sound "strange" or "crappy", harsh vocals are very important in expressing the lyrics in songs much more effectivley and the harshness of a vocalists vocals has a great effect on the effect a song has. imagine serious screamo or death metal songs sung with friendly, clean vocals, when the lyrics are full of hate, death, and pain? although it's not very mainstream (which is actually considered a good thing among true metalheads) it is nevertheless a very important way of singing with a better effect at the appropriate times and if you still don't like it, i'm not saying your not supposed to express your opinion but there's a difference between saying that you do not really like this style of singing, and saying that it is simply "crappy". this goes to all of the people who posted offensive and unreasonable posts on the topic.

I never said that screaming voices or bands were crappy, i was just wondering why they feel the need to when they do have the vocal talent to sing regularly. Im not judging any music because it would just be my opinion.

BTW I cant believe how big this thread is getting.

Originally Posted by: CW14Yeah. I was thinking more like these guys: http://www.myspace.com/orchidectomy

That's one of the funniest things I've ever heard! :D

Akira can growl... :D

Originally Posted by: ericthecableguyAkira can growl... :D

So why were those sausages in the sink?

Originally Posted by: earthman buckSo why were those sausages in the sink?

That, too, is the funniest thing I've ever heard. :p

Ha, I didn't know if you guys would get it. I was laughing too hard too ever hear the whole thing..

Originally Posted by: dying2live_00First of all, i really don't think the number of posts i made should affect my opinion, especially since this is my first day even signing up to this website anyway, second, i never said all the opinions expressed were ignorant, but i can't help thinking that it's ignorant to say that harsh vocals are crappy and were invented for people who aren't good at clean vocals. this is not factually correct at all and going on guitar sites posting threads about how crappy harsh vocals are is definetley "throwing your weight around" because you can't expect people to respectfully disagree to such an offensive criticism. and again it is more difficult to sing with harsh vocals even though it may sound pretty easy to growl a couple of words, screaming various songs full of harsh vocals is a lot more exhilarating and consists of straining the vocal chords a lot more. also, even though it may also sound "strange" or "crappy", harsh vocals are very important in expressing the lyrics in songs much more effectivley and the harshness of a vocalists vocals has a great effect on the effect a song has. imagine serious screamo or death metal songs sung with friendly, clean vocals, when the lyrics are full of hate, death, and pain? although it's not very mainstream (which is actually considered a good thing among true metalheads) it is nevertheless a very important way of singing with a better effect at the appropriate times and if you still don't like it, i'm not saying your not supposed to express your opinion but there's a difference between saying that you do not really like this style of singing, and saying that it is simply "crappy". this goes to all of the people who posted offensive and unreasonable posts on the topic.

I really think that before you "throw your weight around" you need to establish some credit here... I really don't care what you think about anything.... honestly.... But I'm not going to let you come on this forum and suddenly say that the opinions that we are posting are "ignorant". If you can't handle someones view on a particular topic... I think you need to look for a different forum because there are a lot of opinionated posts on this forum... I believe that as a whole all of us here at GT do a good job of excepting those opinions... and the ones that don't, soon find themselves band... for one thing or another... So I suggest you check your ego at the door and except what people think about your beloved "growling". This is a guitar site... not a Growling site... expect an opinion from a guitar players point of view.... not a vocalists point of view. As for whether or not growling is easier than singing... I think the concensus has been unanomous that it's not... I won't disagree with you that it's harder on your throat... But the voice training that a "growler" does isn't designed to help them hit certain notes... they're designed to build callouses over their vocal chords to allow them to scream without causing permanent damage...... As for the aesthetics of growling.. I never said it didn't have it's place in metal... I simply said that I don't choose to listen to it... Maybe it's because I'm not full of "hate, death, and pain". Bottom line... don't become so easily offended... if you can't take criticism on something like "growling" then your musical career is going to be a long and rough road... criticism is not in shorthand in the industry... Just relax and take it with a grain of salt. No one here is trying to insult you or the type of music you like. We simply said that we don't choose to listen to it. That's our choice. There are plenty of other people here that do like that kind of music... So you're not alone... oh yeah... Welcome to the boards!

Originally Posted by: aschlemanI really think that before you "throw your weight around" you need to establish some credit here... I really don't care what you think about anything.... honestly.... But I'm not going to let you come on this forum and suddenly say that the opinions that we are posting are "ignorant". If you can't handle someones view on a particular topic... I think you need to look for a different forum because there are a lot of opinionated posts on this forum... I believe that as a whole all of us here at GT do a good job of excepting those opinions... and the ones that don't, soon find themselves band... for one thing or another... So I suggest you check your ego at the door and except what people think about your beloved "growling". This is a guitar site... not a Growling site... expect an opinion from a guitar players point of view.... not a vocalists point of view. As for whether or not growling is easier than singing... I think the concensus has been unanomous that it's not... I won't disagree with you that it's harder on your throat... But the voice training that a "growler" does isn't designed to help them hit certain notes... they're designed to build callouses over their vocal chords to allow them to scream without causing permanent damage...... As for the aesthetics of growling.. I never said it didn't have it's place in metal... I simply said that I don't choose to listen to it... Maybe it's because I'm not full of "hate, death, and pain". Bottom line... don't become so easily offended... if you can't take criticism on something like "growling" then your musical career is going to be a long and rough road... criticism is not in shorthand in the industry... Just relax and take it with a grain of salt. No one here is trying to insult you or the type of music you like. We simply said that we don't choose to listen to it. That's our choice. There are plenty of other people here that do like that kind of music... So you're not alone... oh yeah... Welcome to the boards!

Because I'm not an idiot with an ego problem, i'll admit you're probably right about me maybe taking the criticism a bit too seriously, but still, i read several posts saying that harsh vocals were made for bands without good vocal talents, thats actually not how it started, although i admit there are bands who growl because they're incapable of producing excellent clean vocals, and this is actually not so important in this genre of music where the instruments play a much more important role than in any other genre. anyways being a very passionate fan for this music and other clean vocaled-bands as well (power metal) i guess my reply couldn't help but be a little bit on the biased side and yes there are cases where people find it easier to sing harshly instead of cleanly, but i refuse to believe that at the end of the day singing harshly at some long concert is easier than doing it cleanly. sure it may sometimes be easier to produce different notes but doing it as a profession is more difficult to keep up because most people get headaches and pass out if they growl as long as the pro's. and no, not all of you just said you simply didn't choose to listen to it, maybe you didn't read all the posts on this thread. oh and thanks for the warm welcome.

I have agreed with you on many of the points that you've made... And I'm not arguing with you as much as I am trying to make you see that this is all opinionated... and realistically you shouldn't let someones opinion effect you so much. If there is one thing that you should learn from your bands that "growl"... it's that no matter how many people tell them they should get a real vocalist... they don't care. And, in turn, niether should you. It's your music, you like it... it shouldn't matter who else likes it or doesn't. It's pointless to argue about opinions because no one will ever be right. But either way, we're not against anybody here. If you feel so inclined... make a thread asking who LIKES screamers/growlers... or specific bands... then you can find people here that like that stuff and you can share your opinions rather than argue about it in a thread that is mostly inhabited by people that say they're not big fans.

And for the record... I like some growlers... One of my favorite artists use to be Aaron Lewis... Who did a great job of mixing vocal styles on their first album Tormented then on their second (first major release) Dysfunction... I also like listening to Mudvayne, In Flames, Killswitch, Children of Bodom, and Trivium.... I just don't prefer it and I don't call it "my kind of music". I enjoy all music for what it is.

Wow this one sure got huge quick! Looks like we can all get along after all. :)

im confused by this thread. aside from sounding like old men stuck in the 60's with the "i hate hip hop and this new metal stuff!" rant, what do you not get about screaming in metal? its a conveyed emotion, and in alot of instances it sounds alot cooler than if it was sung. if you want fake metal with singing, i guess you can listen to evenesence, but theres still alot of bands that manage to pull off both very well, like opeth, nevermore, a7x, ect. the only kind of **** that really baffles me is gore music, simply because there are usually no lyrics, just a guy doing his best impression of a running sewage system with some repetative drop C riffs and a blastbeat. if someone can explain gore to me, i would be really happy. hah.

Originally Posted by: quickfingersim confused by this thread. aside from sounding like old men stuck in the 60's with the "i hate hip hop and this new metal stuff!" rant, what do you not get about screaming in metal? its a conveyed emotion, and in alot of instances it sounds alot cooler than if it was sung. if you want fake metal with singing, i guess you can listen to evenesence, but theres still alot of bands that manage to pull off both very well, like opeth, nevermore, a7x, ect. the only kind of **** that really baffles me is gore music, simply because there are usually no lyrics, just a guy doing his best impression of a running sewage system with some repetative drop C riffs and a blastbeat. if someone can explain gore to me, i would be really happy. hah.

I don't know what's so confusing about differing opinions. If I said "I don't like ice cream" I wouldn't expect uproar, people can't help what they like or don't like. And I have never heard of gore which is probably for the best by the sounds of it.

Heres my thoughts on the subject: I prettly much like all music, I'll listen to classical (Bach or Mozart) to Metal and Hardcore. I personally would choose to listen to Metal & HArdcore than to some mainstreem rock or Vai. I love going to underground shows and love the type of music. The screams and low chord, palm mutted breakdowns from hardocre and metal bands gets us going/ pumped and just does it for us. Not everybody likes the stuff, but the bands aren't about making money or playing for the biggest record crowds, but for just playing the music they like to people who love it. Also, I didn't read every post or know if the subject came up, but hardcore dancing might seem/look stupid to most people, but it does suit the music quite well and also looks awsome if you have a lot of moshers that know what they're doing. Sometimes they get so unorderly and be total chaos, but I'd rather dance that than the tango.

N-J-H-C baby, Jersey's fresh and finest!


ps, I happen to be wearing an As I Lay Dying shirt right now :p