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MadGuitarest
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MadGuitarest
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02/07/2004 11:21 pm
Im trying to start a trio band and when i get my members i dont want to sound bossy but i want to write the songs and pick what songs we do and all of that stuff, also i am gonna by most the equipment also i am gonna be playing alot of lead work and stuff and i want to do stuff that makes the crowd be like he is a great guitarest and also i will be singing vocals , the main problem is that i am worried about the band members becoming angry that i stand out in solos and that i am the main singer and front man and they just sing back up and play there instrument and everything. I dont want them to be like " why cant i sing "or stuff like that. but i am gonna put bass solos in my songs and drum solos also i just dont want these problems to occur , what could i do to not run into these troubles and what do you think of what im doing?
Mike ;)
# 1
finger_cruncher
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finger_cruncher
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02/07/2004 11:45 pm
Great thread, MadGuitarest. This is not an uncommon scenario. In fact, I'm in this exact predicament. Situations like this are touchy and they can eventually cause bands to break up. Since my band's inception (8 friggin' years ago), I've written the majority (90%) of our tunes (and lyrics), I'm the main singer, and I'm a soloist extraordinaire. Without 'tooting my own horn', I feel like I carry this band. They wouldn't be much without me. I wish there was a magical solution to your question, but there really isn't. We often quarrel about these very same issues. The band gangs up on me and says, 'We want a separate vocalist, we want less guitar wanking, we want more creative control with the music, etc, etc'. In my own defense, I don't proclaim to be the best singer...but neither was Jimi Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan, and they still went places and became very successful. On the other hand, I'm not saying I suck either. I definitely can hold a tune. Of course, like most people who frequent this forum, I'm a guitarist at heart and always will be. It's my forte. I love the huge jam type of songs with massive soloing. I'm not interested at all in becoming another Creed or Nickelback type of band. I am proud to play something different (music like Hendrix, SRV, and Santana) in an era where bands like Sum 41 and Good Charlette are dominating the air waves. And when I give the other band mates the option of creating the riffs (because they want so-called 'creative control'), we end up writing nothing. People are often fast to criticize, but when the tables are turned, they have no input to offer.

Bottom line is: If you want to create a band where you'll be the main writer, lyricist, singer, soloist, or whatever, then your best bet is to name the project after you. In retrospect, if I had named my band after myself (since I was the one who created it in the first place way back), then I currently probably wouldn't be having these internal struggles within my band. By naming your band after you (ie. like Satriani, Vai, Malmsteen, Buckethead, Hendrix, SRV, and countless others), it allows other potential band members to know what they're getting themselves into right off the bat. In other words, there's no surprises later on. I'm currently in the process of putting together a band named after myself for these very reasons...so that I can perform what I want to perform, solo when I want to solo, etc. Also, it can be a great marketing strategy if you're a solo guitarist and want exposure (as opposed to being just some nameless guitarist in a rock band or whatever).

Hope my advice helps.

Matt
# 2
Cryptic Excretions
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Cryptic Excretions
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02/08/2004 2:33 am
Yeah, finger's pretty much got the right idea there. I'll admit that I pretty much want a band where people just play what I tell them to play. It garuntees that we'll see it to be as perfect as it can be... In our eyes at least. And I've got no quarrel with that. I think that if it works then great. Everyone's got their own style. As far as others being up for the idea. That's usually where the issues come in at. I'd say be the main soloist if you like, just give the other guys something to play so they don't feel so worthless and just there to make sure you look good. Whether they're playing a solo or not, just give them a reason to continue with you. Now, if the other guys come up to you with an idea or something, don't blow them off and say "no this is about me". At least make them feel like their worth something and tell them you'll do what you can. If a guy wants to write a song or a piece or whatever, let him. It'll give them something to do and allow them to feel like they've contributed. Basically, I know it's not always easy, but don't disregard compromising in every situation. The others might still have something that'll give you the idea that you needed to make something work. No one said you had to include them in every song you make. I recall at one point I made a song with a friend of mine and I let him do most of the writing really. I had different expectations out of my material so I had no real problem letting him do most of the stuff. I just improvised with things that he made. And it turned out great. I recall another time I was jamming with another friend and the two of us took some of my material to the next step. So, my point being, go ahead and write all you want. Just don't disregard your friends. They've got ideas too. Ideas that you can make good use of.
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# 3
MadGuitarest
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MadGuitarest
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02/08/2004 3:44 am
thanks for all the help, u c i want to have a great band, a really really great band and i want a trio so i am not going to make myself stand out too much i am going have the drummer have his moments to shine and im gonna have my bass player have his times to mabe add a line in the lyrics and give the bass player a solo and everything. I just know i have what it takes to lead a band into the right direction and i want to satisfy everyone while moving the band in the right direction because i am posotive that i can. I am just worried that when we play live people will be mroe into me and will talk about me in the band more than the other two, i want a band were peopleare like what a great band other than that guy(me) is awesome.
Mike ;)
# 4
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
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02/08/2004 4:07 am
I can definitely relate to the other band members getting pist because I was getting more attention. Especially when I was on bass, cause I out played most of the guitarists. But then again these are guitarists who think everything has to be in root position. If I ever wrote anything for the band, it was too difficult for everyone else. My opinion on how to go with it is to just write for what your going to be doing. SO if your the guitarist and singer, only write your guitar part and what your going to sing. Then when it comes to playing it with the rest of the band, just let them come up with there own thing to put to it. Of course your have to assume leadership since it's your song, but writting everyones else's parts can cause conflicts. If everyone gets to put there own thing in, everyone is usually happy. If your head is set on that, you pretty much have to hire professional musicians because most will want some part of the band they're in. I haven't met anyone who doesn't.
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 5
Axl_Rose
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Axl_Rose
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02/08/2004 4:45 am
Cant you guys hit 'return' every once and a while :(
# 6
iamthe_eggman
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iamthe_eggman
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02/08/2004 5:26 am
Originally posted by Axl_Rose
Cant you guys hit 'return' every once and a while :(


LOL.... I feel yer pain, Axl! Although it's harder for me, since I can actually fix it, if I feel bothered enough...
... and that's all I have to say about that.

[U]ALL[/U] generalizations are [U]WRONG[/U]

[/sarcasm]
# 7
TheWizard
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TheWizard
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02/08/2004 7:28 am
no offense but you do sound like a bossy douche band

if your as good as you make it sound like you are you should name the band after your self and make the other members wear masks with your face on it

if I were in a band with a guy who was the only one "to write the songs and pick what songs to do" I might have to kick that guys ass

a band is about 2 or 3 or 4 or however many guys you want who make music together and work off each others vibes, not one asshole with two other guys to fill up the rest of the space on stage
Alas Gandalf lives, Middle Earth is again safe...
# 8
Seve420
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Seve420
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02/08/2004 8:05 am
It's pretty annoying if there's one guy who wants to do everything in the band. The lead guitarist in the band I was in originally wrote nearly everything but when I started to write songs he got pissed off. I can see why he wasn't really happy when I wrote solo's for his songs but not even considering my songs was f*cking irritating.
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# 9
Yngtchie Blacksteen
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Yngtchie Blacksteen
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02/08/2004 9:32 am
Originally posted by Axl_Rose
Cant you guys hit 'return' every once and a while :(
Thank you.

In relation to this thread, in my band, I am the leader.:cool:
# 10
slipknot
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slipknot
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02/08/2004 2:11 pm
i agree with the wizard

you all sound like a bunch of bosses in some ****ing job telling your secriters what to do.

you all have to do some team work with your bands.
because whats the point playing on guitar if you dont have fun or with somebodie tells you what to do or what to play.
PeoPle = ****T
# 11
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
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02/08/2004 3:21 pm
Originally posted by Axl_Rose
Cant you guys hit 'return' every once and a while :(


I don't get it. :confused:
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 12
I Suffer
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I Suffer
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02/08/2004 4:42 pm
lol, i once got kicked out of a band because everyone said that my encouragement and kind words of praise had a hidden meaning in them.
Now I got kicked out because of that, im guessing if you act the way you plan to, you might be all alone.

I'm not sure if you want to look cool or if you really enjoy the music. Because being cool and looking cool are two very different things.

I'm not judging you or anything, because i don't know you at all, so dont get me wrong. But i would suggest sitting down, reading your post over again...and see if you see anything wrong with it...maybe even imature?

Maybe you would just want to bring in session musicians for recording and gigs, and not have a band.
# 13
MadGuitarest
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MadGuitarest
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02/08/2004 8:05 pm
EVeryone except me and finger cruncher and the other guy think that we are trying to sound bossy. First off i do plan on letting my band members creating there own signature stuff to add to the song and to give ideas to help the song , its not like i will be telling them what exactly to play, and i will let the band members maybe write a song and i will advise it and see if it works and stuff, im not being like a freakin dictator. Since i am starting the band i am going to in a way lead the band in the a good direction so if the bass player comes up with a crappy song and the drummer see's no problem with it i will just ask him to modify it some and come back with it some other day. u see if everyone wants something different and everyone gets the same amount of power and stuff then the band doesnt go in one direction and it just becomes a mess because i have done it already once, and the bass player was not a very good at some stuff so i had to help him out and he got all mad but if i would not have took charge my band would have went down the toilet,

(return)

But the kid was mad because i was a better musician and i was more influenced and was more driven to have a great band and i tried to take charge to lead the band in the right direction but i told him i wasnt going to need him because well he wasnt very smart number one and also he was OLDER THAN ME. 3 YEARS! and he hardly had a music talent in him so i tried to help and so on and it just didnt work, so once again i know what can happen when no one is in charge. Ive read tons and tons of biographies about bands, and not everyone but most of the bands have had someone somewhat in charge and they did exceptionally well so those of you saying im bossy u need to look at the details on the reason for someone to have some charge.
Mike ;)
# 14
Raskolnikov
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Raskolnikov
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02/08/2004 9:37 pm
I like working in a band where everybody writes and does a lot of collaboration, so I really wouldn't be interested in working with folks like MadGuitarest or finger_cruncher.

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with the way they like to run things, so long as they're up front about it and not peckerweeds when they put their foot down over something.

So folks, chill out. It's not your band.
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# 15
I Suffer
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I Suffer
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02/08/2004 9:40 pm
lol, he asked opinions, thats what he got.

I don't know too many people who would join a band with someone of that attitude. Just saying it might be a long hard road for him.
# 16
TheWizard
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TheWizard
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02/08/2004 10:01 pm
I agree with I suffer

unless this guy is the next Steve Vai and he has Robert Plants voice to go along with it he shouldn't be such dick about his band
Alas Gandalf lives, Middle Earth is again safe...
# 17
The Ace
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The Ace
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02/08/2004 10:35 pm
Dude I don't think your bossy.

(look at me I'm pressing return!)

I've had the same problem, but ikn a different way. I didn't want to sing vocals, but the thing was the people we got would all suck.

Then of course, I wrote everything (cuz all of the other members just learned how to like play tab, and that was it, so I had to write it and then give them a lesson of how to play it).

I bought all of the equipment, and then recorded all of my stuff, and since they didn't know their parts, I recorded everything (bass sim., drum machine).

Then I release the CD that I've cut, and they start asking me why they weren't in the credits. And I go what? You guys would rather play video games and watch the Simpsons than play! So they get all pissed at me and kick me out.

So my stuff is coming along well, with no restrictions.
and now its named after me.

There are only two important things in life - There's music and theres girls, not necessarily in that order....
The Ace's Guitar Tricks
# 18
finger_cruncher
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finger_cruncher
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02/08/2004 10:42 pm
Originally posted by MadGuitarest
EVeryone except me and finger cruncher and the other guy think that we are trying to sound bossy.


Ok, don't pull me into this. I didn't say I even necessarily agreed with you, but rather was offering suggestions based upon what you said. Admittedly, while I can relate to something similar to the situation you described, my current situation is more complex and convoluted than that. I certainly am not of the general opinion that bands should be lead by dictators. Collaborative writing between band mates can be very productive.

However, one must look at all the facts before making judgement-calls. In my case, I write the tunes (more specifically, I write the riffs, melodies, etc. and let the bassist and drummer create their own parts), I write practically all the lyrics, I am the frontman/singer (and do a pretty decent job), perform all the guitar solos, and I originally formed the band (8 years ago). I consider my band-mates to be quite talented individuals and they have complete discretion to compliment my writing with their own unique styles, and furthermore, I'm not unopen to criticism. If you take all of these factors into consideration, you can see that I don't harbour a black & white concept of leadership.

I'm also open for ideas from the band mates. The problem is, nothing would get done if I waited for them. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE if they wrote stuff. It would certainly take some pressure off my back. However, despite their technical proficiency, they seem to never have any creative ideas without a kick-start from me. As I've said before, it's easy to sit back and criticise my efforts, but when the tables are turned, the same critics often have nothing to offer. Criticism must be constructive to be effective.

Lastly, I can say with confidence (and still trying to maintain humbleness) that I'm very proud of my guitar ability and consider it one of the main assets of my band. My motto is: If you have it, why not use it? I'm probably one of the better guitarists in Vancouver, but I know my place and I've never carried myself like an arrogant cock. I don't turn my nose up to other bands or people...heck, except on stage, I'm a pretty humble guy. In this business, if you don't portray confidence on stage, you'll be eaten alive.

Anyways, there's certainly nothing wrong with using either a leadership type of approach or a collaborative type of approach inside of bands. Both can work. Furthermore, there's nothing wrong with naming a band after yourself. It prevents confusion/arguments later on between band mates. Tons of artists use their own name (ie. Clapton, Vai, Satch, Sarah McLaughlin, Al De Meola, Bryan Adams, Alanis Morrisette, Avril Levigne, etc.) The big point I have tried to establish here is that there's a difference between being a leader and being a prick. Yes, I don't think it would be very fun being in a band where the leader completely disregarded your ideas or input altogether.

That's my 2 cents.
# 19
MadGuitarest
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MadGuitarest
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02/08/2004 11:26 pm
Sorry finger_cruncher i didnt mean to drag u into this. But everything you said i believe. And for the_wizard i am not being a prick, if you would have read what i said in some of the replies in the forum you would see that im not a prick , i respect your opinion on the way i would like to run a band, but i dont think you were able to see that ive been saying that i wouldnt be a total prick, i wouldnt be a prick at all , but since i am starting the band and buying the equipment i have the right to say that i am not dictatoring but just moderating the band. And i would tell the band up front that i am a nice guy but i also am gonna try to keep things in order. And once again I am not gonna be like No, NO, NO to everything my band members suggest and to everything they want to do. And i am going to let them put there stuff in a song and everything but someone has to keep things in order, and for i_suffer i see where your coming from but to let you know i dont have a long road ahead because im not a prick.

also once again i dont want a band thats just about me wich some of you think im coming from, to tell you the truth i would want the guys in my band to stand out as much as me. I just believe that everyone fighting over what they want can lead to somerthing thats not right at the end but if you rather have someone that would be sort of in control and that would except ideas from everyone equally and try to put there ideas where it all sounds good.



Mike ;)
# 20

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