Analyze this!


Christoph
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As promised, here is my "evil circus" progression, based on chords expounded by NTM and Chris Mood.

It's best played with an arpeggiated fingerstyle approach, playing each note of the chord and letting ring (aka 6/8 time). Repeat each pattern twice.



|---0--0-----1--0----------------------------------------|
|---1--1-----1--1-----2--0-----3--0--------1-----1--0----|
|---2--2-----2--2-----0--0-----2--2-----2--2-----1--1----|
|---4--3-----2--2-----3--3-----3--3-----3--2-----2--2----|
|---------------------4--4-----2--2-----3--------2--2----|
|---------------------------------------1--1-------------|



Analyze your asses off. :)


# 1
TheDirt
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Joined: 03/28/02
Posts: 569
You mind posting a sound clip... I'm not getting the drift playing it myself...
"You must stab him in the heart with the Bone Saber of Zumacalis... well, you could stab him in the head or the lungs, too... and the saber, it probably doesn't have to be bone, just anything sharp lying around the house... you could poke him with a pillow and kill him."

- Aqua Teen Hunger Force, The Universal Re-Monster
# 2
noticingthemistake
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Hmmm. Did you actually write that, or did you just write it out to see if anyone could analyze it?? ‘LOL’ Either way I looked at it, gave it a quick though and here is what I came up with.

The first four chords are in the key of G major. The first chord being F#m7b5 which is VII. The second chord is C6/F which the IV chord, with the bass playing a suspension. The third chord is the same C6sus4/E, but this time E (third) is in the bass. The last chord is a C6/E, which is the resolve of the previous chord.

The next four chord seem to jump throughout keys. The last chord of the previous key (C6/E or in this case C augmented 6) is the bVI in the key of E major. So you have your pivot chord. The next chord goes to F#9#5/C# which is II7 in E major and I7 in F#major. Both are secondary dominants. The next chord is C#7b5, which is V7 is F# major and II7 in B major. Again both secondary dominant and again you pivot to a new key. The next chord is A11#5/B which is bVII in B major and V7 in D major. The next chord is A9#5/B which is still V in D major.

The last three chords seem to be in the key of E major. The A9#5 in the previous sequence acts like a pivot chord from V in D and IV in E. The first chord in this sequence is Am/F which is IVmin in E major. The second chord is G#+/B which to me is IIImaj in E, the augmented note is actually E. The last chord is your resolve which is E/B, or I in E major.

Hopefully I didn’t make any mistakes but I’m sure I did. ‘LOL’ Anyways my final assumption is it a very ambiguous chord progression. Did I say very cause I meant very. :)
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 3
chris mood
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This progression (to me) only really seems to work when played in rubato, the chords really don't relate to each other in a diatonic sense, the emphasis here is on chromaticism, voice leading, and lack of voice leading. I did enjoy NTM analysis, it was quite amusing.

NTM wrote;
F#min7b5, C6/F, C6sus4/E, C6/E, F#9#5/C#, C#7b5, A11#5/B, A9#5/B, _?_, Amin/F, G#aug/B, E/B

Here's my analysis;
Amin6/F#, Fmaj7, Fmaj7/E, Amin/E, Eb9/Db, Ebaug.add9/Db or G7b5/Db, Bmin7b5, B9, F , Fmaj.7, Eaug/B, E/B.

At least we agreed on the last chord :)
# 4
chris mood
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This sort of reinforces what I was trying to say in the previous thread, that you have to be carefull not to over state something just so it will fit some theoretical explaination.
Ex. You labeled the 3rd chord of the progression as a C6sus4/E...(huh?), don't you think it's much more practical just to think of that as Fmaj7/E.
# 5
noticingthemistake
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Yeah, the whole chord progression was hard to write up and make sense of. Voicing's were a problem because I had to consider some of the chords in simple triadic form just to make sense of it. I tried to make sense of it without just saying it's chromatic. Chris I'm not sure what you see wrong with the third chord. Yeah it's not the best label, but I wasn't going for the most convient label but one that did make sense.

The first chord is clearly a minor 7th flat fifth chord. It sounds like a F#m7b5 before an A minor, even the whole movement of the first 4 chord is too dark to even be called minor. Sounds diminished, even better locrian. First chord in the locrian mode of G major is F#m7b5. That's where I got that. Then it goes to a bV of F# locrian. A common movement in a locrian mode. Hell any mode, the bV characterizes the locrian specifically. That chord would be C. Where I got the 6th spelling is from a common voicing for IV in G major, which would be Cmaj6. Think this progression I - IV6 - V7. Makes sense to me. Why is it a suspension? Where does a suspension 4th resolve in a Csus4 chord. Well from F to E, now look at the high e string. That's where I got that. Yeah it's not as convient as Fmaj7/E, but it sounds like a suspension to me. How often do you see the bass note being the 7th of a chord? I think that was a decent analysis of that first 4 chords, and yeah your right I did try to make it fit a theoretical explanation. I think that made sense and it made sense to do that. As for the middle part, whew!!
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 6
Christoph
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LOL . . . I love you guys. :D

Ok, Dirt, here's what I meant by arpeggiated -



|-------0-----------0-----------0-----------0--------|
|-----1---1-------1---1-------1---1-------1---1------|
|---2-------2---2-------2---2-------2---2-------2----|
|-4-----------3-----------4-----------3--------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|


|-------1-----------0-----------1-----------0--------|
|-----1---1-------1---1-------1---1-------1---1------|
|---2-------2---2-------2---2-------2---2-------2----|
|-2-----------2-----------2-----------2--------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|


|----------------------------------------------------|
|-------2-----------0-----------2-----------0--------|
|-----0---0-------0---0-------0---0-------0---0------|
|---3-------3---3-------3---3-------3---3-------3----|
|-4-----------4-----------4-----------4--------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|


|----------------------------------------------------|
|-------3-----------0-----------3-----------0--------|
|-----2---2-------2---2-------2---2-------2---2------|
|---3-------3---3-------3---3-------3---3-------3----|
|-2-----------2-----------2-----------2--------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|


|----------------------------------------------------|
|-------------------1-----------------------1--------|
|-------2---------2---2---------2---------2---2------|
|-----3---3-----2-------2-----3---3-----2-------2----|
|---3-------3---------------3-------3----------------|
|-1-----------1-----------1-----------1--------------|


|----------------------------------------------------|
|-------1-----------0-----------1-----------0--------|
|-----1---1-------1---1-------1---1-------1---1------|
|---2-------2---2-------2---2-------2---2-------2----|
|-2-----------2-----------2-----------2--------------|
|----------------------------------------------------|




I mostly agree with Chris Mood's analysis. When I look at those chords I tend to come up with the same chord names. The point, however, is that when I started playing this I did not pay any attention to theory whatsoever. I just played what sounded good. You're right, CM, I guess I was mostly focusing on chromaticism, but it wasn't a conscious effort. When I compose, I just play what sounds good to the ear (and I think this progression sounds freaking awesome, very dark and scary), and only resort to theory when I get stuck.

So yes, NTM's analysis was quite amusing.


# 7
noticingthemistake
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(and I think this progression sounds freaking awesome, very dark and scary)


Which is why I say it's in a locrian mode, at least the first four chords. It is very dark sounding, but I guess I should have just wrote the simplest chord labels rather than try to make sense of it. Yes, quite amusing. You got me there. 'LOL'

"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 8
Christoph
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No need to get sarcastic now. You're a great chord analyzer!


# 9
noticingthemistake
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I'm not being sarcastic dewd. I can see where my analysis is quite amusing myself. I actually thought you were just f**king with us when you wrote that, because it seemed like you wrote random chords to see if we could think up chord names that would make sense diatonically. I tried. 'LOL' Cool arpeggio though. :)
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 10
Christoph
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No, I wasn't ****ing with you. Believe it or not, I actually like that progression. But I'm just weird like that. Have you ever listened to Leo Brouwer? (Cuban composer) . . . it reminds me of something he would write, very dark and dissonant.

Having tried to contribute something, I guess my forum activities will hereafter be limited to covertly correcting people's grammar. As a great man once said - "Those with masters needn't the bother."

# 11
chris mood
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Originally posted by noticingthemistake

The first chord is clearly a minor 7th flat fifth chord. It sounds like a F#m7b5 before an A minor, even the whole movement of the first 4 chord is too dark to even be called minor. Sounds diminished, even better locrian. First chord in the locrian mode of G major is F#m7b5. That's where I got that. Then it goes to a bV of F# locrian. A common movement in a locrian mode. Hell any mode, the bV characterizes the locrian specifically. That chord would be C. Where I got the 6th spelling is from a common voicing for IV in G major, which would be Cmaj6. Think this progression I - IV6 - V7. Makes sense to me.

*whoa...this is really taking things out, can't say I agree w/anything within that statement. The introduction of the F natural within the 2nd chord totally cancels out any connection with anything to do with Gmaj or F#locrian.


How often do you see the bass note being the 7th of a chord?
*A lot more then I do the 4th

As for the middle part, whew!!


The key to getting the middle part is the tri-tone the exists there; Db - G.

Also your ending gets pretty bizarre, calling a root pos. Fmaj7 a Amin/F?...A root pos. Bmin7b5 a A11#5/B !?!?

I would have to look at the chord progression again, but if I had to associate it with a tonality I would say A minor.
# 12
chris mood
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Originally posted by Christoph

Have you ever listened to Leo Brouwer? (Cuban composer) . . . it reminds me of something he would write, very dark and dissonant.


Estudios Sencillos #7? Can't remember the exact # but there is one that's sort of simuliar to that.

Now that I looked at that progression again I can definitely see it relating to the key of Aminor.
# 13
noticingthemistake
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My apologies, unhumbled! :mad: Because as it seems it's time to give me sh*t for what? Doing something you asked me to do. Real cool of you! I am only sorry for being kind to you, as I said I did like what you wrote and took the time to try to analyze what you wrote. Excuse me, my assumption was wrong about how you came up with it.

Chris. One post, what christoph wrote was clearly undiatonic, the next it's in A minor. Oh yeah by the way, since when is there a F#, and an F in A minor?? Since we're so sensitive about that even though it's clearly Atonal.

About how I labeled the chords? They are the same notes and same chord just labeled different. Why even argue about that?? It's clearly undiatonic, so there's no point. Sorry if I'm wrong but it seems like you just turn everything I say into something different, and argue about it?? The debates are cool but this is ridiculous. Sorry, I have no time to argue about chord spellings to a tune that is atonal. :confused:
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 14
chris mood
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Originally posted by noticingthemistake

Chris. One post, what christoph wrote was clearly undiatonic, the next it's in A minor. Oh yeah by the way, since when is there a F#, and an F in A minor??

*A melodic minor contains F#, natural and harmonic F natural.
At 1st glance the 1st thing I noticed was the chromatic voice leading all over the place. After relooking at the chord progression and playing through it using Christophs tab expl. I can now see and hear a relationship to A minor.

About how I labeled the chords? They are the same notes and same chord just labeled different. Why even argue about that?? :confused:


----
-1--
-0-
-2-
-3-
--- I like to label this chord Eb#5b9/C !
# 15
noticingthemistake
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----
-1--
-0-
-2-
-3-
--- I like to label this chord Eb#5b9/C !

Ok. Too bad there's no Eb in there. "LMAO" Oh wait, you probably tuned your guitar down a half-step. Wait that wouldn't work either. Chris, I'm not sure what kind of responce that was, but ok.
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 16
chris mood
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who cares if there's no root, the 3rd and other essentially tones are there.
# 17
noticingthemistake
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Ok whatever. :confused:
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 18
chris mood
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It's one of the most basic principles of composition and arranging that the root is as despensible as a pawn in Chess. The 3rd, 7th, and any altered tones are the key to identifying a chord quality.
# 19
Christoph
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I'm laughing my ass off at having created this much controversy. Glad you liked the progression though, NTM.

Hey, here's a chord.

2
3
2
0
x
x

I call it E7add9sus4/D.


# 20