Is instrumental guitar a viable genre?

Never give up. Just keep looking for doing things better. Many failures lead to ultimate success.

Originally Posted by: RandyEllefson I didn't like that Satch song at all, for example.

Wow, ok... can I ask you this, seriously... do you believe then that your tune "The Key" is "better" and more memorable that the Satriani tune I linked to?

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardWow, ok... can I ask you this, seriously... do you believe then that your tune "The Key" is "better" and more memorable that the Satriani tune I linked to?

I wasn't making a comparison. Wow. Seriously.

Originally Posted by: RandyEllefsonI wasn't making a comparison. Wow. Seriously.[/QUOTE]

I'm just trying to gauge where you view your own music. The implication from what you have written in your blog and in this thread is its not your music that's holding you back....

[QUOTE=RandyEllefson]I don't think lack of melody is my issue based on the comments I usually get (from strangers, not dear old mom), though everyone's got an opinion. I didn't like that Satch song at all, for example.

I think the elephant in the room here Randy is that at least with the song you linked to in your blog, (The Key) is that it IS the music... you're playing is great technically, but I don't think its nearly as melodic or catchy as you think it is. Sorry, I'm not trying to be harsh, but to just off-handley dismiss Satriani.. it wasn't so much about "do you like this tune?" as it was to show you an example of strong melodic soloing by a highly skilled guitar player. Its hard to address this kind of thing without people getting all offended... but at the end of the day, you're still left right back where you started if you're not open to feedback.

I think its odd that your own music seems to have suffered from the very same problems that you were outlining in your blog. You've mentioned several times that you write really catchy riffs... I found actually there was nothing all that catchy in your instrumental music... don't get me wrong, your technique is super solid. But there was nothing memorable about your playing... honestly, it just sounds pretty much like the speed-lick based stuff that you can find thousands of examples of on YouTube. I was able to hum the Satriani tune right after I heard it. Yours, I couldn't remember one melody or musical theme. There was one section where you went into a finger-tapping sequence, and again, being direct, I just thought it was self-indulgent... really just a sequence based section that to me felt like it was put in there to show your technical skill.

Again, I'm not saying this to attack or anger you.. I just think you're doing all the right stuff... good, clear website, well-recorded songs, solid technique but that you may be guilty of hubris in that you're over-looking the possibility that your instrumental playing maybe isn't all that unique or memorable. Doesn't mean you can't succeed, but I think you may be just assuming that is really strong creatively when maybe that's exactly the area you need to be focusing on.

I thought your band demos were much better... the guitar playing seemed a lot more inspired. Lyrics, honestly, really need work... there's just a bit of "Spinal Tapness" to them that you're going to need to lose if you want to be taken seriously. But the production was really good.

Sorry if any of this bothers you... but you're posting & writing as if to say "it can't possibly be the music, so why am I not a success??" when I think its actually the music that needs the attention... again, technique = totally solid... creative ideas = could really expand & improve.

I realize at the end of the day its easy just to say "everyone has their opinion" but if you feel that way, why worry at all? Just create music, have fun with it, post on YouTube and be done with it... if it catches on, great, if not, who cares? As long as you're happy with it, then that's all that really matters.

Thanks for clarifying.

I appreciate the feedback (positive and negative) because that's something I seldom get. What you suggested as hubris is nothing more than a lack of negative feedback, no feedback at all, or positive feedback, combined with me doing my best 24/7, being very self-critical, but in the end believing in what I'm doing. (I'm not sure why people always go for someone's ego as the explanation.)

I envy those with support that way because every artist needs detailed feedback to improve.

My focus is the music, not my guitar playing. Okay, I feel like I have to correct a bunch of words you've put in my mouth. But I'm not going to spend much time on that. I did not dismiss Satch. I have no interest in showing off. And everyone does have their opinion - that's just a fact and pretending otherwise isn't honest. You're assuming I'm dismissing feedback like yours (because of my ego, of course) when in reality I have not received that feedback.

"The Key" video is only on that blog because it's the most recent one I did, not to say "look how melodic I am". Maybe I should've chosen something else. Look at the album credits and you'll see that was buried on "side 2", not up front. Others told me that was a favorite (despite the less melodic approach), so I made the video. Anyway I'm not asking you to listen to everything and comment, but you're putting a lot onto me.

Spinal Tap? Can you be specific because that blows my mind and I honestly have no idea what you mean.

BTW an elephant in the room is something that no one wants to say, right? In a way you're admitting no one is saying that to me, and in fact no one else responding to this thread has. That doesn't mean they aren't thinking it - just that people won't say stuff like that as a general rule.

And that's why I appreciate you doing so (whether I agree or not is my business).

So what are people to do but carry on? And believe in what you're doing, while doing your best?

If you've ever done original music, you might have encountered this lack of meaningful feedback. I've talked with other musicians about that, and most have experienced it and don't like it. It comes with the territory and is a whole subject by itself.

One of the points I might've neglected to make somewhere is that, aside from the Big Three, the only instrumental guitarists I ever heard discussed (this was years back) were being discussed for their speed, etc., which is what I was getting at in the blog. That's all.

Originally Posted by: RandyEllefson
Spinal Tap? Can you be specific because that blows my mind and I honestly have no idea what you mean.

Some of the lyrics were just a bit basic... just a little, and I mean just a little, corny... they just aren't quite as heart-felt as I think you might want them to be. You are an intelligent guy... in your music, don't "think" what you want to say... just say it, with complete utter honesty. Ever hear that song by
"Dope" DMF?... I mean, you can't fault that guy for being direct, right? But that raw-in-your-face honesty is really the appeal of that tune. "Nightmare" by Avenged Sevenfold would be another example... a guy singing about his dead friend, both angry & sad at the same time. Then on the other end of the spectrum would be Fleetwood Mac's "Rumors"... here's a ho-hum band where close friends & lovers are about to say goodbye to each other, maybe for the rest of their lives... and they laid it to bare on the album, which of course was a huge hit. I think you just need to be a little less superficial, perhaps, take a bit more of a risk with the lyrics. But that is just me.

As for the rest, I don't think you're dismissing the feedback I gave, in fact I think you're taking it really well. My point was only that you may be over-looking the creative aspect of your music, and yet, really, its ok just to say "nope, I'm super happy with what I've done and wouldn't change a thing". I think you are searching for something though... for me, listening to your music, its like there's something not quite there, not quite completing the picture... I can't say what it is, its just that spark that would get people sharing your music and making it a YouTube hit is missing... I wish I could nail it down better for you. But, I really think you should keep working it... there's definitely lots of potential. And again, with all of this, if you're satisfied that's all that matters... if you're not, then go after it... write & record something that you can show people that just feels totally YOU, so that when people listen to it, you really don't care what they think. Not in a bad way, you're just so completely satisfied with it that if they enjoy it, great, and if not, oh well, you couldn't have done it any differently. As a song writer, that's usually when you get the best results.

Good luck and keep us posted.

One of my favorite sites is The Recording Revolution . It's a blog based on the art of recording and mixing. There was a recent post by the author of the blog, Graham, about a key to good recording was indentifying the hook.

Very instructive.

The big fat killer of most instrumental stuff is the lack of hook. It's what killed the shredder 80's for me. Loved the playing but I'd rather listen to AC/DC Hells Bells any day. It's had a big fat hook.

Thing is Randy, you have a point; the answer is not to 'shred more' and it clearly is not. I think moreover, Slipin (not to put words in his mouth), was focused on the hook.

Given the example of 'The Key'; the song was good. Nothing to be ashamed of at all. The real hook in the song, the opening riff was not fleshed out in the song.

If I'm giving a real critique, and to maybe lend some creedence to my thought, I've been around the business a lot. I made a living understanding what people wanted to hear.

While you will have shredheads, few people want that. That, Randy, was clearly your point and you were spot on at that.

Returning to 'The Key', it was melodic but it did not really center around clearly defined themes. The point of the Recording Revolution post was that to really grab a listener, there has to be an identifiable hook to grab the listener.

This is what you hear in Johnson's Cliffs of Dover, Lynch's Mr. Scary and even Edgar Winter's Frankenstein. Even Steve Stevens Hellcats Take the Highway, it drives back to themes that are engaging and exciting to the listener.

Without the returning theme, a song meanders. 'The Key' was melodic and had a theme but a theme that itself was not fleshed out and was subverted for the lead playing which did not really revolve around a theme either.

Not to beat down but in your blog post, you lamented the shred instead of melody' deal was an issue but in the end, neither is really wrong or right, it is hook. If you want to grab and audience, return to that riff or lick that smacks the listener in the chops.

Going back the 'Hellcats' song, even in the lead playing, it had a method. You'll notice that it just wasn't lead playing but leads that were used to build tension with ascending themes.

Just some thoughts. I had to talk a lot of music to folks in my day and it usually boils down to something very simple. Hook.

I totally agree with Jeff's post...

I wanted to say too Randy, that my opinions were offered with the knowledge that you are obviously an excellent guitar player, and definitely have lots of talent & potential. Lots of people post stuff that we can check out and give feedback, but with you, we are not talking about someone who saying "hey I just made my first demo... wadda ya think?"... for that, if its passable, I'd say "sounding good, keep at it!".

For you, you're trying to establish yourself as a credible & viable entity in the music business... and I think there's real potential for that to happen because a lot of the right pieces are there... just not the complete puzzle *yet* but I really think it could be, so stick with it.

Instrumentals are great for film/tv sync opportunities also...

Do what you love, and put that drive to good use!