U.S. Reporter Kidnapped in Pakistan Confirmed Dead

Since this a free discussion board...
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/200...eporter_dc.html


This is such a terrible incident, to even think about what this man's family has been going through for the past few weeks, and of course what they will ultimately go through as the years progress. This was a scene taken right out of a movie, something that is hard to believe, but then again such acts of violence happen everyday in this world. But the thing is, how prepared are we to handle such levels of hate and destruction? How vulnerable are we as American citizens?

This has really turned my stomach, Pearl's family said it was a ``senseless murder'' that had silenced ``a gentle soul.'' My heart goes out to this man's family and friends. Those who knew him well.

-Joseph

That kind of thing makes me see how humanity can attain such low points...

"Daniel Pearl's murder is an act of barbarism that makes a mockery of everything his kidnappers claimed to believe in. Their actions must surely bring shame to all true Pakistani patriots." This surely is not over!



-Joseph

yeah, wife was pakistani...weird

hmmmm... she is... the thing is though I dont think most of you would know where the highest rate of kidnap is! (i asked alot of my friends, and i got given names of middle eastern countries, or far eastern).... well the answer is coloumbia... secondly this is being used as the main centre piece of the "war against terrorism" propaganda machine (or "infomation war"as the pentagon likes to call it, what is it with them and misinformation?).. yes it's very tragic, and I certainly would have done something to save his life if i could... but it's insulting to see how one american journalist (who's viewed as an enemy by these poeple) gets soooo much media attention, when poeple who happen to have been born outside the us (let's be fair none of us chose where to be born, and certainly have achieved nothing in ) die without anyone batting an eye lid (or are brushed off as "collatral damage")... I mean this is fine example of your case being as powerful as the media that represents you... and in all fairness, the poeple who killed him never had their story put to us... For all we know, they may have excuted him as a spy, but we dont know...
If you thought this was barbaric, then you may be shocked to find out what's been done in the name of the american poeple in the south american countries... yep, "we're not in the biusness of telling democratic countries what to do!!" was the comment not too long ago about isreal from one of the US representatives, which i think is a fair comment... but what about Peru? Hmmm? didn't think of that when they helped to topple a democratically ellected president... no course not.
this is all being used (with lots of graphic descriptions, cos you want to get your message to poeple without having to biuld a story too much) to whip up the american poeple in to bombing Iraq (becuase remember kids, the worlds richest country bombing some of the worlds poorest country as PR is "war against terrorism", and wholly legitamate cause), and there was talk of this before even bombing afganistan (which ironically had been discussed in June 2001)...

I think if they wanted to make the American people more interested in bombing Iraq they'd engineer something specifically to do with Iraq.

This man was kidnapped and executed because he was an American, a reporter, and a Jew (making him an agent of the Mossad in his kidnappers eyes, or so I'm told). This doesn't make me (as an American) think that we should bomb Iraq (though I think ending the Gulf War with the liberation of Kuwait was stupid). If we catch Suddam Hussein trying to invade Saudi Arabia or smuggle some kind of bomb into the US, well that's a different matter entirely.

I'm not so naive as to think that the people who did this didn't feel justified in their actions or to think that America's hands are clean of the blood of innocents (and many people are, I hate to say). That doesn't mean we shouldn't protect ourselves though. I also feel that "protecing ourselves" shouldn't be all bombs and bullets.

Just bought a book "the code book" written in 1998; saying "world war three will be the one of communications"...

yeah... I agree with ya rask.. but watch the next step... mark my words (i was right about afganistan)... this is simply frothing up emotions... to get poeple hyped up, and not letting the feeling wane.. basically it keeps the engine ticking over instead of stalling...
Why engenire anything to do directly with iraq? simply tell people "I have seen evidence to convince me of (new guys name) guilt".. sorry about rambling... but I mean keep the military-industrail bull out of the papers/ news... I mean with bin laden, poeple were told he was giulty, and shown a few clips of him calling it "this blessed attack" (i heard the arabic version, and unfourtunatly it is accurate). And repeat it (as good ol; gooballs said, if repeat a lie it becomes fact)... and that was enough... I mean that's scary stuff.. how long will it take till this sort of actiong starts to go against poeple expression (peaceful) political feeling? I mean it's not something new... The papers did this to martin luther king... and Nelson Mandella (margret tatcher called him a terrorist back in the eighties)...
I'm in agreement that the poeple that are responsible should be punished... but within international law, and with a fair trial... look at melosovich... he's getting a (presumably) fair trail... how come they're trying to despratly rule this out for bin laden?
Sorry about this... but this (and the case of the recently released clip of the "illigal boat poeple" that was released this week, where it was a carefully cropped clip of parents throwing thier kids off the boats, to rescuers, so it looked like they didn't give a damn about thier kids, and it was used in a campaign to keep "such poeple out".. when the full clip was released, you see infact the parents are on a sinkig ship, throwing their kids first to rescures, cos they care) has really ratteled my cage..
(I hope no one finds me argumentative... i'm simply putting the other said to the story...)

I haven't been following this story, but I just have to wonder that if Pearce was such a "gentle soul" and a "good husband" then what was he doing in Pakistan? There's a point when personal responsibility takes over, and going to one of the most dangerous countries in the world and snooping around while you have a pregnant wife at home is just plain dumb. Being an American and a Jew, what did he expect?

sooo gross

yeah, I agree with you that nothing justifies it... but imagine, right, that there is a gang war (hypothetically)... and when ever a white kid is hurt, it hits the head lines... a hispanic/ black kid is hurt it's gets a casual mention on a radio show at 2am, nothing more... Do you see what i'm getting at? it gives the image, that one side is the victim and the other is the persecutour...
secondly what other civlization have done (more than 5000 years ago in some of those cases), doesn't make what's happening right... thirdly, things are massively different from the days of the aztecs etc... it was a physical imposibily to be responsible for the death of 1.5 million people (iraqis in the us's case, and dont even get me started on the vietcong)... now it is, and IT'S HAPPENING.. just doesn't get mentioned... just the same ol' crap, that Suddam has boilogical/ chemical blah blah (same old story), and the cheek to say they care for the iraqi poeple.. JUSTIFY THAT FOR A COUPLE OF CENTS OFF YER LITER OF PETROL!!! let's be realisic here, imagine what happened on sept 11th happening 300 times over a decade.. well that's iraq for ya.. and they're still pushing for the case for bombing... I mean these poeple are sickos..
"Not all Americans are as naieve as you think. In fact, I bet there are a whole lot of Brits out there who are just as ignorant as the next American"
yeah i agreee with you (i talk to alot of anti-war poeple), and I dont think pointing out a screwy politcal system is "bashing america" (unless you think the screwyness is vital)... and it's not "anti_american" to point out the flaws in the government, IT@S YOUR RIGHT! One new yorker got brandedan an "anarchist" because he wrote "american imprialism will lead to more falling biuldings"... How in god's name is that conpiring to take out all laws, or destroy a comfortable orderly system?

"everyone's involved (your goverment supports us and helped us bomb Afganistan). "
uh, sorry that's not wholly true.. the UK (and maybe germany here and there) joined in, nobody else did.. everyone else feared bullying (being it millitary /economic/political) and said they'd join in... so what's the end product.. 3 cruise missles were fired by the brits, compared to the 50plus by the Us.. The US doesn't NEED the UK by any means, it's just a token act to make it look ok... oh yeah, where have i bashed americans? My whole "crusade" has been against the US forign policies and the media that suppourts/ covers/ and glosses over these little blemishes in that Gucci suit and military haircut..
sorry about this... thank's for the input though..

yeah man you lost me somewhere in there

Don't forget we talk about human beings. They haven't chosen where they were born, and they might be bombed only because some fanatic asshole decided he would make WW3

people are different, and they believe in different things.
i dont want to sound racist because im not one and as a jew i cant be one, but the muslims dont see things like we see them. (maybe those who live in the western countries are different - i dont know).
They hate the western world, - most of them if not all, and and they are trying to explain their hate by saying stupid things (like saying that america is handling a crusade against the muslim world).
few day ago i heard that the pakistanian P.M said the muslism should handle their jihad by learning and getting more educated. This IS the problem. the learn koran all day the day, and of course they are poor and dont make any money and then they blame it one usa and israel and the whole western world. Instead they shall do what the pakistanian minister had said they should, and then one day they wont have to hate us anymore because they will live as good as we live...
About the palestinian problem: i dont want to start the whole argument again, but how can you expect peace when one day arafat talks to the western media and says he want to return to negotiation and in the evening of the same day i can see him on tv, yelling "millions of shahids (suicide bombers in simple words) are on their way to Jerusalem"
I know that people dont want to admit it because he is an important politician and everything but he is seriously ill, and hes getting crazy. He is acting the same way that Stalin was acting in the USSR.
And i dont realy undersand how can you call him the "elected president of the palestinias" when he wasnt ever choosen in democratic elections + he is president of PA for 30 years, which is quite anti democratic as well...

Incident happen: sorry, i kinda started rambling...
I'll try to make this one more sturctured...(this maybe long)

1)"Why should we lift sanctions on Iraq?" Because iraqis are dying at a collosal rate thanks to these sanctions., which have come up with nothing (unless you want to consider lowered oil prices). Sudamm hasn't done anything to the US... When has he? he's done a lot to arab/ muslims, perticularly when he was suppourted by the US (yep, the people who paid him well, and armed him to the teeth to fight Iran). Sudam isn't capable of doing anything, they weapons checks have come up with nothing (other than one instance where giros for rockets were found.. which certainly suggests to me, that inforcing sanctions for 10 years has been a complete waste).. What evidence do you have that this goes to the military?
2)" it's because the people you're speaking in favor of are hellbent on destroying my people (i.e. Jews). I'm not going to accuse you of being a terrorist or supporting terrorism... you always talk about people getting one side of the story... have you ever gone to ">http://www.jpost.com?" I'm not speaking in their favour, to me they're as bad as the Us forign policies.. I'm glad you mentioned the Jeruslem post, because yes, I have... and some others... I'm also coloured, and i read some White supreamist papers, odd? No, i like to know what's being said on BOTH sides..
Oh yeah, I nearly forgot, Daniel was excuted because he was SUSPECTED! he wasn't given a trail, he wasn't arrested or read his rights... IT'S MURDER... Now, this exact same happens on Isreal... A palastinain SUSPECT is blown to kingdomcome, and maybe 6 or 7 other poeple with him, except in this case it's called "targeted killings"... Do you see the double standards? IT'S THIS THAT I'M AGAINST...
3) about the figueres, I usually go with amnesty international... and their figures usually are very close to al jazera's... Al jazera's word carries alot of clout because they are VERY fair... This is why they picked it out of all the arab stations (i mean there are other channels which would have done a good job spreading misinformation.. but why bother, Just tell poeple what's going on, and let them figure out for them selves)..
4) what's been done before doesn't make what's happening right, or acceptable something needs to be done..
5) about the palastinains : right, MORE innocent palstinains are being killed, right? (good recent example is when 6 isrealis were killed, 26 palastinains died the next night) So why is world sitting by an wathing? Because of the media... it's not muslim vs jew or whatever, it's rich wanting more, and poor trying to cling onto what little they have.. both use dirty tactics, but one is doing far more damage than the other.. secondly the palastinain economy/ education system is activly being destroyed by the isreali governemtn.. it's nothing to do with religion... it's about wanting land by force... religion is simply used as a tag. if arafat/ sharon and all these groups go the problem of the settlement on the west band (wich are illigal by international law) is not adressed, the question of a palastinain state/ or mixing the populations is still not adressed...
6)There are some great liberal groups in isreal (who i love more than the arab groups, simply because these poeple had the gall and intelligence to relize what they've been told is crap and do something about what's going on)... I mean the photo i saw, was of an "exhibition" of boxes symbolysing coffins... White coffins were isreali, black were palastinain, and what you see is a sea of black with some what sprinkles (this was done using actaul figures from 1999 i think, and the coffin were arranged in order of when they died).. I mean I would love to shake the hand of who ever came up with that... very powerful, very thought provocative, and more importantly very peaceful...
7) Why is arafat being made the bogieman? he's done well to control fata... and he can to some extent reason with the other groups when push comes to shove...
8)lalimacefollie : I'm glad some one thinks like i do... I'm a muslim (born in libya, now british)... and i dont understand this "my poeple" thing... I was born into where i am, I didn't achive anything in doing so, and I'm not the enemy of anyone simply because they're born somewhere else (no matter how the arguement is disguised)...
9)"i dont want to sound racist because im not one and as a jew i cant be one" eh? you can be rasicst what ever race you are... one of mest friends is jewish (well from his mother's side anyway)... his grandad is white jewish, and he hate's black poeple with a passion.. So he is rascist, doesn't matter that he's jewish...
10)"They hate the western world, - most of them if not all, and and they are trying to explain their hate by saying stupid things (like saying that america is handling a crusade against the muslim world). " i think you've been misinformed.. how many muslims do you mix with on a dialy basis? The US was very popular among the libyans back in the 60's and 70's...so what's changed.. Forign policies... and it's unrelenting drive for money. I've said this before, there are alot poeple who hate the US because of the forign policies... like 11 out of the 19 alledged hijackers are Saudi... THis is because the US suppourts the saudi regime for oil in return, and the Saudi regime has one of the worst human rights records... Do you see? I mean american programs dominated Libyan tv in 70's more than ever, and nobody really had something against the US then... year later, the US bombs libya (yes, another oil rich country), again saying they care for libyains (and then bombing a psychaitric hospital not too far from where i used to live, and simply saying "suspected terrorist blah blah" at the end of each comment about this... till they hit the french embassy..:)explain that one!
Libya also went through sanctions, becuase it was allegedly harbouring 2 "terrorists" (convicted in the eyes of the media with out a trail)... One of which has been cleared, the other convicted, but there are some unhealthy crack apearing in the firt trail. Like the fact witness came asking why their evidence was never used, only to find it had gone "missing", and was found again, perticulary the lock on the baggage storage area was cut off... which pretty much gives him a fighting chance being cleared... so was it worth making the libyan poeple suffer? ofcourse it was, they got cheap oil during the sanctions...)
11) final comment: I think murder is murder whatever sied it's on... what i dont like is this use emotive language and gresoume clips being used to tell one half of the story... We do have equal rights to information, but how many of us spend 2 to 3 hours reading news on-line? hmm?

ed: israel didnt destroy a single palestinian school since the beginning of the intifada how can you say that we are destroying their education system???
we are not killing suspected people we are killing terrorist
its not like Zahal is picking innocent man telling the media he is a terrorirst and killing him, all the people that were killed during those assasinations were known terrorists.
You have more efficient ways to fight with palestinian or any other terror? well we dont.. 3 or 4 years ago my family voted for merez on the elections which is a radical left party, today im in the right condition to join the "kach" movement which is very anti palestinian right organization that is against the law..
Somehow around 70% of the people here got the feeling during the last year that the palestinians simply not interested in peace, and when theres war there IS war and in war innocent people are duying.
People like you want israel not to react when theres a suicide bomber who explodes in the middle of our cities. So what do you want us to do? we have tried to negotiate with the palestinians but we all know what happened.
I was supposed to perform tommorow, in Tel aviv. it was supposed to be something that would be shown on tv and everything. the concert was cancelled.. guess why?


Open your eyes... there are people who cant accept peace as posiblity. i cant change them neither can you.
ouh and by the way you asked how many muslims i meet on a day basis ? the answer is about 10.. so i know what im talking about

You think that palestinian suffer more than we do because more of the are dying right?
dont forget that that is only due to the fact that we have good army. and theres no reason for us not to use the whole power (which for some reasons is not used) of our troops to defend ourselves.
and by the way can you explain to me why if israel is so bad and wants to occupy the palestinian land till end of time israel was the only country ever to give citizenship to the palestinian refugees inside its border in 1948?

holy crap! deja vu!

[Edited by Incidents Happen on 02-23-2002 at 10:32 AM]

personally, i think Israel should go out, kick some ass, then go home and 'fuc k a da wife'. the 2nd strongest army in the world is israel last time i checked, and hell, Israel usually just responds to attacks, i mean its not often that you see "an israeli fighter kills 6 palestinians' its usually ' a palestinian terrorist kills 4 israeli's', then the next night 'an israeli terrorist/fighter kills 10 palestinians.

see where im getting at? Israel responds to attacks, seldom starting the fighting.

thats just like the USA, we responded to 9/11 , so in a way the israeli people are kind of like us.

you can be whatever religion you want, its all one big book.

hmmm... well the road is long and tough, but i think it's worth it...
Zeplin: 1) these poeple are not tried in a court of law and convicted (if this was the case i wouldn't be complaining). So mossad and co, are indeed , killing suspects... just like Daniel was a suspect to those poeple (he may have giulty, he may have been innocent, we simply dont know,. like the palastinains)... both cases are wrong, and I'm frustrated by the double standards... 2) when was the last intifada? I dont think any country can be proud at not having bombed a school for a year (or a year and a half). And you dont destroy an education system by bomb.. you do it by sapping funding... and putting such difficult conditions on the place, that anyone remotly qualified will up and leave... So no real teacher are around 3)the current way of dealing with things has made things worse.. simply killing 3 or 4 palastinains to every isreali doesn't work... the proof of this is the fact it's still going on, and also they're getting more sophisticated..4) i'm sorry you had a show cancelled, but i dont think most palastinains would have the oppourtunity to do something like this in the first place... 5) the peace talks... hmmm.. What serious issues have been discussed at the table? The expanding west bank (which the Isreali government are quite plainly told not to do in the Michel plan) was not looked at sufficiently... I hear about "concenssion after conssesion"... What were they? and to me why bother when they had clinton (with Madeline albright, who is jewish, Sandy burger, who is jewish, and denis ross, who is jewish and has served in the isreali military... these were the poeple around the table trying to mediate.. does it sound fiar?) 6) well the poeple you meet are unrepresentative, simple as that... because of their situations, it's like saying that all jews think that the arab culture is backwards, and showing you an example of 20 right wing rabbis.. I mean, i get on with the jewish population, and they dont mind me... 7)"dont forget that that is only due to the fact that we have good army." I've said this before.... We dont say The holocaust is acceptable because the germans had a strong arm... so why should it go for Isrealis? might doesn't mean right..8) isreal want to expand from it's CURRNET size for gods sake... to the isreal as it was in abrahams day... This is why all the arab nieghbours are sooo jumpy... Nobody has the right to take anything away from anyone else by force..

INcident happen: where do you figure on the Chinese and Russian army rate (and indian for that matter)? what happened to morals? Isreal already did what you said (under sharon ironically)... they went into lebanon killed 40,000 lebanies... what was the result? well that's where suicide bombers started, and 300 american marines died there... and now it's been cursed by that action decades later... and now sucide bombers are getting cleverer and more sophisticated, so is the current way of dealing with things working? No,the reason is that isreali government is infact using poeple like the settlers are cannon fodder, they dont care about settlers, just givem guns and "let the animals kill each other"... they make a good story for them to push the palasitians out... That's why outside monitering is needed (doesn't have to be the UN, just someone to implement international law)... oh yeah, put infantry against infantry... the one fighting to die will win (know by the americans from the WW2)... there is a small, but secret war, being waged on the isreali lebaneese border... and hezbollah have to film what they do, because it's denied, and you hear the mortalitly figures.. you hear how 4 or 5 siucide soldiers are sent in, with nothing more than kalshnikoffs and handgrenades, at the dead of night, and next morning there's 5 dead hezbollah soldiers, and upto 30 isreali soldiers (alot of which died due to friendly fire) (this is why you dont see american soldiers fighting the talaban, because they learnt the lesson from the war against the japanese)... I mean, this is a very bad sign for isreal, that the poeple they're fighting are starting to catch up.. and if you take the figures on the graph, extrapolate it, you'll see fairly soon it'll be 1 isreali for 1 palastinain... so instead of 6 dead isrealis and 26 palastinains, it'll be 26 of each, which is not good for anyone.. also about your comment about isreal always replying... There is no start for the currnet afairs, i mean everyone can drag the argument back 50 years, older than most soldeirs and terrorists... and what you "hear" aint too accurate...
if anything, the US should try an alternate resonsponse... Cos treating the sitaution is handeled in isreal quite clrealy hasn't worked.. I thought that was kind of obvious..
your not condoning the murder of inoccent civilains are you?

Ponyone: I'm glad you see my frustration... I just dont think it's fair, that by accident of place of birth of the person can make such a huge difference...oh yeah, Isreal has hit schools... the most recent being around the time of the intifada.. about your co-worker... that's heard mentality for you... and it happens over here, in US and pretty much anywhere... that's pretty much what i try to fight...i Mean the best example is how Bin Laden became public enemy number one over night, with out much explanation or proof... He may be responsible, I dont know, but from what I've seen, I dont think it would ever get past the hearing and into court.. Sorry if i sounded a little possesed earlier, I was trying to reply to lots of stuff, and wrote what i had to say... and my computer crashed... so i had to write everything again...
phew... I cant take anymore of these long long posts..

HUH? why the hell do you think israel wants to expand???
this is a stupid muslim propaganda... if thats what you think i dont think we can even argue.
comparing holocaust to our fight with the palestinians is simply wrong from any point of view. let me remind you that while jews were citizens of germany before 1933 and germans just blamed them in many things like loosing wwi the palestinians here with the help of the neigbhours started a war against us many years ago. its not the same at all..
we didnt take the muslim citizens of israel and put them in a death camp... while egypt syria and jordan did something like that