Religion, Politics, and Armegeddon

About the WMD's: You give a psycho dictator money to finance the wmd's and the technology to make weapons and even provide sattelite images of civilian and military targets in iran (one of these places being no more than 1km from where our house is in iran, or whats left of it atleast). What did you think would happen? He not only used it iran, he even had enough to kill his own.

Originally Posted by: stacknyI think the nation is a much more secure place with Bush here. Hes kept our moral values in check. He takes no BS from anyone. He does what he thinks is best for us and only us, and thats what I like. We dont need a permission slip from the fairy nations in the UN saying that we can or cant go to war.

That mentality right there is exactly what the rest of the world hates about America.

All Bush has been doing is create a false sense of security within the U.S. while creating the largest deficit in the history of the nation. This is exactly what the terrorists wanted, America destroying itself...

Originally Posted by: stacknyHow is the president full of ****? The most you could possibly claim is him receiving faulty info from the CIA, being that congress happened to vote overwhelmingly in the approval of the war in Iraq. Were all of congress, even the liberals, all full of **** too?[/QUOTE]
In this context full of **** = lacks better judgement. I think the president's better judgement is poor. And anyone that gave this war the ok also lacks the better judgement. Of course, bear in mind, this is all assuming they're acting by what we know. Which is highly unlikely. I'm sure they all had some incentive to go to war and saw something benificial out of it. Whether or not they told us that incentive is a whole different topic and here' we're all left to bicker between each other and try and figure out whether or not they told the truth and it's all just another big rat race. Just like the last debate. So just for debate's sake, yes they're all full of ****. Every last person is full of ****. Even I'm full of ****.

Originally Posted by: stackny
We went after Bin Laden. The guy is a billionare and has friends everywhere in the middle east. Its like searching for a needle in a hay stack. Aint exactly an easy thing to do.[/QUOTE]
I guess bush thought it'd be easier to find WMDs in Iraq.

[QUOTE=stackny]
Its not like we handed Hussein a vat full of wmds and said do as you please. We may have indirectly gave them money, but that was by no means a permission slip to gas innocent people.

The point was we're not guilt free. We supplied the requirements knowing who we were dealing with.

[QUOTE=stackny]
I think the nation is a much more secure place with Bush here. Hes kept our moral values in check. He takes no BS from anyone. He does what he thinks is best for us and only us, and thats what I like. We dont need a permission slip from the fairy nations in the UN saying that we can or cant go to war.

Kept our moral values in check? How the hell does one person keep everyone's "moral values" in check? Don't stop there, do tell what our moral values are. I'm interested to know what I hold near and dear. He takes BS all the time. The internet gives crap about him everywhere. And he has no choice but to take it because it's the right that we have that he represents that we're allowed to say what we wish. He takes it all. No more and no less than any other president.
On doing what he thinks is best for us and only us. What he thinks isn't necessarily what I think. Why don't you vote for me to be the president? I'll do what I think is best for the country. You seem to like it when other people decide what makes your life better so why not let me decide? I'll base everything I do exclusively on what I think is best for you in particular. That means I'll be catering specifically to you. You'll get all the attention. No need to worry, your in my hands.
The thing is, every president is elected because they're advertising that they'll decide what is best for the rest of us. So why vote for any one of them in particular?

And maybe we should require a permission slip to wage war. Hell, it's insanity to do the same thing and expect different results, so why not try a different method?

I was just thinking "I could go for another 200 posts in 2 weeks."

Originally Posted by: stacknyIts a nieeve statement to say they dont exist.

"Nieeve"? English is my 3rd language and even i know it's "naive". How about "nuclear", do you say "nucular" like bush?

here's one good reason he shouldn't be president; [U]he's retarded[/U], seriously, i'll post some of his funniest actual comments later... ;)

Iraq is a good jumping off point for the U.S. to Invade the Middle East. It's surrounded by countries we could easily defeat or countries we believe are our allies. The war on "terror" is a reason to go take land by force. Any country we believe to be standing in our way will get invaded sooner or later. We will never leave the Middle East. It's to valuable of a strategic rescource in the long run. 50 years from now even 10 years imagine what gas prices will be. This is WWIII whether anyone chooses to recognize it or not. It might get really serious and it might not. Let's see what Russia, and China think about the situation. Most of Europe is with us or will be with us, so we can't allow them to suffer. Maybe the U.S. will really share the oil and wealth. Yeah right. It's a really slow game of chess. We just made a powerful move. How will it end? Checkmate? Stalemate? Or will someone just get angry and sweep all the pieces off the table? Only time will tell. Unfortunatley what has happened was inevitable. I'm worried for humanity. It's too bad we can't figure out a better way.

Originally Posted by: scarface84"Nieeve"? English is my 3rd language and even i know it's "naive". How about "nuclear", do you say "nucular" like bush?

here's one good reason he shouldn't be president; [U]he's retarded[/U], seriously, i'll post some of his funniest actual comments later... ;)

I'm sorry to do this, but since English is being mentioned, for future reference when putting something in quotes ending punctuation goes inside the quotes as well. For example "I suck." or "what did you say?"

Originally Posted by: Cryptic ExcretionsI'm sorry to do this, but since English is being mentioned, for future reference when putting something in quotes ending punctuation goes inside the quotes as well. For example "I suck." or "what did you say?"

lmao!

btw, everybody here can complain about what bush is doing wrong, but seriously, what would you do differently?

who's religion is right? ours... you know why? because our religion(s) don't tell us to kill anyone who doesn't believe the same thing. seriously, if they didn't want us dead, then it probably wouldn't even be an issue.

why are we in iraq? because something needed to be done. eventually, iraq probably would've attacked us, probably an even more devastating attack then 9/11. you hate bush for doing something about it while we still could. it's something that clinton probably should've done, but decided to ignore for 8 years instead.

[/rant]

Originally Posted by: 6strngs_2hmbkrseventually, iraq probably would've attacked us, probably an even more devastating attack then 9/11.

Yes. All those WMD's that were found clearly prove that statement.

"the terrorists never stop thinking of ways kill and to to strike fear into the american people, and neither do we." George Bush--- if that is not an idiot, who is???

Originally Posted by: z0s0_jpif that is not an idiot, who is???

The people who voted for him?

Originally Posted by: 6strngs_2hmbkrs(whose) religion is right? ours... you know why? because our religion(s) don't tell us to kill anyone who doesn't believe the same thing.

I hope you're not trying to pretend that christianty didn't do that for over a thousand tears.

Originally Posted by: 6strngs_2hmbkrs
btw, everybody here can complain about what bush is doing wrong, but seriously, what would you do differently?[/QUOTE]
Well, I'm sure a big "yes" qualifies for that one. When dumping someone at the head of a country you can't expect them all to react the same. So everyone would do things differently in one way or another.

Originally Posted by: 6strngs_2hmbkrs
who's religion is right? ours... you know why? because our religion(s) don't tell us to kill anyone who doesn't believe the same thing. seriously, if they didn't want us dead, then it probably wouldn't even be an issue.

If they didn't want us dead, then it probably wouldn't be an issue... That's like saying "if there's not a problem, then there's probably no solution." Considering this whole entire thing blossoms from each others' views about the other. And I don't really know if we can go and say our religious beliefs are right and just dump on theirs. Seems kind of arrogant.

[QUOTE=6strngs_2hmbkrs]
why are we in iraq? because something needed to be done. eventually, iraq probably would've attacked us, probably an even more devastating attack then 9/11. you hate bush for doing something about it while we still could. it's something that clinton probably should've done, but decided to ignore for 8 years instead.

[/rant]

I knew a kid a while ago. I didn't like him because of his upbringing. I saw him as a potential threat to me. He hadn't done anything to me yet, but I knew that some day he could hurt me. I knew his dad had a gun because I bought him that gun for his birthday. Knowing that there was a weapon so accessible and knowing I didn't trust the kid, I went over to his house, knocked on his door, and when he opened the door I kicked the living **** out of him and broke his hand so he couldn't fire a gun. I did that just to make sure he couldn't hurt me in the future.

Metaphor translated:
Technologically Iraq is a child compared to the US. So what we're doing is just taking things into consideration and smashing this child into the ground before he's actually done anything. We don't have much for incentive and nothing to back us up. But we're still stomping the **** out of that kid. Is that justice?

Originally Posted by: magicninjaIraq is a good jumping off point for the U.S. to Invade the Middle East. It's surrounded by countries we could easily defeat or countries we believe are our allies. The war on "terror" is a reason to go take land by force. Any country we believe to be standing in our way will get invaded sooner or later. We will never leave the Middle East. It's to valuable of a strategic rescource in the long run. 50 years from now even 10 years imagine what gas prices will be. This is WWIII whether anyone chooses to recognize it or not. It might get really serious and it might not. Let's see what Russia, and China think about the situation. Most of Europe is with us or will be with us, so we can't allow them to suffer. Maybe the U.S. will really share the oil and wealth. Yeah right. It's a really slow game of chess. We just made a powerful move. How will it end? Checkmate? Stalemate? Or will someone just get angry and sweep all the pieces off the table? Only time will tell. Unfortunatley what has happened was inevitable. I'm worried for humanity. It's too bad we can't figure out a better way.

Any body have anything to say about my theory?

Originally Posted by: scarface84Bin laden is Saudi arabian, and trained al-qaeda in afghanistan, what does that have to do with iraq?

Just to play the advocate here...
The Czech government and the CIA both found that one of the hijackers met with an Iraqi diplomat in Prague. That diplomat was subsequently expelled from the country. And the CIA director testified to Congress that there were several other contacts between Al-Qaeda and Iraqi officials. There has also been an Iraqi defector that claimed Iraqi intelligence had previously trained groups on how to hi-jack planes without weapons (how reliable this source was I'm not sure, but still...). The Wall Street Journal (hardly a publication that jumps to conclusions and conspiracy theories) gave credence to this intel.

Originally Posted by: magicninjaAny body have anything to say about my theory?

Yes. I think that China would support us if the proverbial matter hit the fan and that our alliance with Israel should not be underappreciated. While our support of them has made many hodgies start hating on us I think it could prove a valuable investment.

Originally Posted by: HammurabiYes. I think that China would support us if the proverbial matter hit the fan and that our alliance with Israel should not be underappreciated. While our support of them has made many hodgies start hating on us I think it could prove a valuable investment.

Possibly, but I can't say i trust them. Have you heard about the spies being caught? They don't want to let us get to powerful either. They'll have to show their true colors over North Korea. Which is precisely the reason we even harrass N. Korea. To gauge where the Chinese stand.

Maybe I take a weird view on things, but I think it holds water.

*resists urge to jump in*

I've been on guitartricks for too many years. I know better than to jump in on a thread like this. But anywho....

>>6strngs_2hmbkrs
>>iraq probably would've attacked us, probably an even more devastating attack then 9/11.

Iraq wasn't going to do anything. The UN sanctions put in place after Desert Storm in '91 crippled Saddam. He postured well, but it was all fluff. We didn't find so much as a wiffle ball bat once we got there. With regards to the gassing of the Kurds or the '91 uprising, both occured during REPUBLICAN administrations. So if something was to be done, it should've happened then, instead of blaming Clinton for ignoring a problem whilst getting some quality head off a young jewess.

The president had a personal agenda for going into Iraq. The principal lie we were fed started out as an imminent attack by Saddam and then morphed into, "well, he's a bad dude and has done alot of bad things". I agree whole-heartedly with the latter, but if we're to get into the game of regime change, we should:

A) Have the moral high ground (which has long since been lost)


B) Bring justice through nation building throughout the world.


In the foreseeable future, neither of these objectives will be accomplished. Each day we sink further into the quagmire. In my opinion, the saddest legacy of this whole time period will be the lumping together of 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq. I have a sick feeling that years from now, people will look back and think that two were connected. That's just a lie.

Sure their capabilities to produce them were severely crippled after the 1st gulf war (the threat then was probably the main reason they didn't take Bagdad)...but they were surely trying to build it up again since and kept whatever they could stockpiled while conveniently destroying some to appease and stall the UN. These stockpiles were very likely smuggled to at least Syria preceding the current war. The General in charge of satellite intelligence (at the Pentagon) said there had been an unusual increase in traffic from Iraq to Syria preceding the war. As further evidence to this (and the Iraq/Al-Qaeda link) note that a plot was prevented in Jordan near the Syrian border this last summer (I believe that's when it was, if memory serves). They stopped the vehicle which had explosives, a chemical bomb, and poison gas. One of the plotters confessed to being trained in Iraq on chemical weapons. Jordanian officials say if they had been able to carry out the plan, as many as 80,000 could've died.

i think we should stop sucking on the teet of saudi arabia, get the **** out of the country and get alternative fuels. my weewee isn't the biggest but i don't need a v8 to make up for it.

Wasn't one of the "genocides" or mass murders a military retaliation to an attempted assasination on saddam?I'm not on top of those facts so don't hold that one on me.

By the logic we went to war in iraq on we could now invade...

North korea
Pakistan
India
China

the big difference is they actually have wmd's.

There was no evidence of any terrorists being harbored in iraq either.Saddam and laden wern't bed buddies.

I could throw up a ton of links to u.s soldiers killing civilians and gruesome war stuff,but thats not friendly to the rules.Just look around the web and you should find plenty on whats going on and what a blunder it all is.