Anyone think 80's guitarists sucked


guywithaguitar
New Member
Joined: 07/22/00
Posts: 3
Ok I heard someone say that the 80's guitarists were awesome, wrong they totally sucked they sucked worse than I do. Also I know alot of people like shred, don't get me wrong I do to, but doesn't anyone know who started all of it. He was the greatest guitarists and still is if he made a new album, Eddie Van Halen, all these shredders wouldn't be able to tap and dive bomb without Eddie. The only 3 shredders I like are Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, and Vai. Here is why guitar players in the 80s sucked big time. They copied Eddie like no other, they played as fast as they could, sure they played faster than him, but they couldn't bring that awesome rhythm he had, no guitarists has that, I'm sorry but all I see is people saying how Satriani and Malmsteen are so good, blah blah blah. I don't know if you know this but all the shredders can read music, know all the scales, and such. Eddie on the other hand just plays what sounds right, and to me that makes him a Beethoven on guitar. In an interview he said he laughed when he saw all these guitarists tapping, they used them as tricks, and he just incorporates them into his songs. But he did mention he liked Vai and Joe. Another thing that gets me is that VAi took lessons from Joe, and sounds kinda like him in the sense they both shred. Eddie's biggest influences were Eric Clapton (awesome awesome guitarists by the way, there is no music without the blues)and Allan Holdsworth, but guess what he sounds nothing like them at all. Please reply, your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. Music of today sucks and as a rocker it saddens me to say that the only person in the Biz today that has much much talent and I give much props to his Eminem, no matter what you say about him being crazy, if you listen to one of his 2 LP's you'll find one song that you will like, I particularly like all of them.
# 1
Bofatron
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Joined: 05/12/00
Posts: 86
Why hold back? Tell us what you really think ;-) I respect your opinion and I mean absolutely no disrespect but a few things might be pointed. EVH is and was a great guitarist no doubt. I can remember way back when disco was all the rage and VH burst out with their debut album. What a relief. But EVH did not invent two handed techs for the guitar. Plenty of people, even if they were obscure, were doing that for a long time. He did make it popular, though. And there can be no argument that he 'enjoyed' an army of clones.

You want to talk about 'dive bombs'? Say no more than one J. Hendrix. And for him it was no trick or gimic. It was a way for him to represent actual dive bombing -- the kind going on in Vietnam an entire generation before EVH came along. Some people might argue, and they might have a case, that EVH was simply reducing Hendrix's socio-political statements to a circus act.

I really can't see how anyone could denounce an entire generation of guitar players. The world is filled with such incredible talent that you will never be exposed to. But even the well-known guys from the 80s can't be boxed up the way you've done. I can't say I listen to Yngvie all that much but to imply that he merely followed in the shadow of EVH is an overstatement. In fact, they bear no resemblence at all. And, in my opinion, YM had much better vibrato than EVH. If you've heard YM's live SCM you'd realize the man was and I guess still is a total monster on the guitar.

Paul Gilbert a hack? That's pretty simplistic. And has there been anyone with a bigger sense of humor than Gilbert? And take my word for it, humor is nothing to take lightly. Satriani just a nobody? I was around when there was a real lack of good rock guitar instrumental music and JS really was a breath of fresh air -- at the time anyway.

Via, while I'm not a big follower of his music ( I do have 2 albums though) is, from any perspective, one of the greatest practicioners to have ever lived. He seriously raised the bar for guitar players. And I seriously doubt that a compositional genius like Zappa would have hired Vai on at such a tender age if he was not indeed a sheer virtuoso. He may in fact be as good as Paganni (sp?)

And the 80s also brought us Vernon Reid. He was and remains one of the most intelligent and creative guitarists to be fusing jazz with hard rock and funk.

Frankly, I can't see why you have to have one hero or any heros at all. The world is filled with thousands of great guitar players and musicians in all styles to be appreciated rather than idolized. I say they're all great in there own way and they can teach us a lot. If you dismiss them all with a giant dogmatic wave of the hand then you will have shut yourself off from a universe of wonderful music.

And is there nothing out there that is truely inspiring other than EVH? Just look around.
# 2


Joined: 02/01/23
Posts: 0
I know not all of them were great, but they all could whoop me anyday. I have not been playing that long and anyone better than me I should respect their playing and try to learn from them. They all probably suck compared to a guy with a little more practice.
BTW Randy Rhoads played in the 80's and I believe he changed the metal in a big way. I have not heard EVH enough to judge. Should I check out his music?
# 3
Raskolnikov
Guitar Tricks Moderator
Joined: 07/05/00
Posts: 2,907
HEY!
Let us not forget the 80's saw most of Stevie Ray Vaughan's professional career. Now I'm not a fan of new wave, hair metal, or shredding for that matter, but I have to respect that there is talant there- even if I don't like the musical focus.
As for today's music, well I have to step up to the plate. Many good bands are actually out there and doing their thing, (even ones I don't like). How can anyone say that music today sucks when you have Primus on the scene, playing a very unique style of music, and playing it with a great deal of talant. Also, take Charlie Hunter (he's that sick bastard who plays an 8 string guitar so he can play the bass and guitar parts at once). Or Incubs, they are versital, interesting to listen to, and have something to say, on top of being excellant musicians. Let us not forget the Stone Temple Pilots, still kicking around, and still doing their thing, and Dean is still using the most demented chords of anybody playing today. I could keep going, however that would be obnoxious.

I do respect you right to not like music. I don't like alot of music as well, but you won't ever hear me saying a certain genre of music sucks. I used to think that way, but the more I've learned about music, the more I've realized that good music can be found anywhere.

[This message has been edited by Raskolnikov (edited 07-23-2000).]
Raskolnikov
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# 4
BadHorsie
Senior Member
Joined: 06/08/00
Posts: 360
Let me start off by saying "that's great that you like to share your opinions'" because that's what this forum is all about. But let me go ahead and correct you in a few places since I am a Vai, and Satch fanatic. Satriani was fingertapping and doing a lot more w/ the whammy bar than "dive bombs" before Van Halen even released a record. Also, I can't even begin to conceive how you think that Satch and Vai sound similar. Vai is always trying to stray away from what everyone else is doing. So if you think they sound similar, you're not listening very closely. As far as Eddy goes... he's a great guitarist, no doubt. But he does know what he's doing when it comes to music theory and such, considering he was a disciplined piano player before he even picked up a guitar. He doesn't just throw stuff together when he's finger tapping. Listen to some of "Eruption" and you'll see that he uses a lot of music theory. And to answer your topic, no I don't think that '80s guitarists' suck. They were doing the same thing that guitarists always do. Look at what's going on now, everyone is trying to sound like Korn, Limp, etc. In the '90s it was everyone trying to sound like Nirvana. Sorry for the long post, but I just wish people would be a little more careful when they use the word "suck". Thanks!

------------------
BadHorsie, holdin' it down like Gravity!
Ain't nothin' but a Gear thang, baby!
# 5
BarryS
Member
Joined: 07/06/00
Posts: 75
Yes, most 80's music makes me sick to my stomach, but there were also some very good things to come out of the 80's. SRV (need I say more?) for one thing. The 80's also saw the rise of SRV protege, Robert Cray, a stinging blues guitarist with a incredibly soulful voice.

And of course the wonderful, wonderful Albert Collins had a thriving career in the 80's.

The 80's was a really good decade for the blues.
# 6
Kevin Taylor
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Joined: 03/05/00
Posts: 4,722
I always thought as Van Halen as a 70's guitarist...I'm sure the first album came out in 1978 or so
# 7
Uncle Istvan
Member
Joined: 03/30/00
Posts: 98
Yes, Van Halen was great, and was one of the biggest innovators of the guitar in the past 20 years, but you can't totally discredit a whole decade of great musicians. Look at Randy Rhoads, Ynwie Malmsteen, Paul Gilbert, Steve Vai, and Vivan Cambell, for example - all were great musicians. And, EVH made tapping popular, but tapping has been around for a long time, it just hadn't been widley used until Van Halen came about. Hell, Pete Townshend and Jeff Beck were using a bit of tapping before Van Halen revolutionized it. That's all I have to say about that...
# 8
ezshuffle
Member
Joined: 04/24/00
Posts: 33
wow...what a loaded response...80's guitar players sucked...i know and have played with 1000's of guitar players, and not once did i look at any of them and say "they suck"...music and guitar playing is an expression of one's innermost feelings...i was taught a lesson from everyone i played or listened to

do you guys consider yourselves better than most???? then you missed the whole point of guitarplaying...shredding is a style just as blues and jazz is a style.

take bruce lee's motto..."experience everything, and use what works for you"...somethings may not work for you but by responding that they suck or a particular style does not soothe your palate the way it affects others is disrespectful...i may not like the car you drive...but if i have never driven it should i say it sucks???

everytime i talk to any new guitar players i jam with or even meet without hearing them or them not hearing me...they always ask who i listen to...i respond by telling them, "everybody and everything"

i grew up in the eighties listening to evh and jeff beck...by reading magazines that did interviews with these two guitarists i realized they listened to others as well...eddie listened to chopin and clapton...jeff beck listened to albert king and other blues greats..then i read articles about clapton and how he appreciated the works of robert johnson and freddie king and bb king...wow all that from listening to eruption and people get ready

now i listen to eric johnson and danny gatton, segovia and sharon isbin...miles davis and john coltrane...louis armstrong and wes montgomery...and alot of other people that play in my area...i learn from all

george lynch is an eighties guitarist that is phenomenal so is randy rhoads...i tried going back in decades to see if there was any ten year period that was not revolutionary for the guitar...i couldn't find it, maybe you can enlighten me?

please take this as an educational response to make you appreciate all forms of music...you have a right to say you did not like a particular piece of music...one man's junk is another man's treasure...but out of respect to alot of guys here please do not say their idols suck...it is disrespectful of both the people you are offending and the artists who are playing the music...

now if anyone could explain rap to me i would be forever grateful...just kidding
# 9
BadHorsie
Senior Member
Joined: 06/08/00
Posts: 360
Bravo! Best post I've read in a long time!

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BadHorsie, holdin' it down like Gravity!

[This message has been edited by BadHorsie (edited 07-24-2000).]
Ain't nothin' but a Gear thang, baby!
# 10
Shlag
New Member
Joined: 07/08/00
Posts: 23
Can Anyone play the guitar behind their backs
or with their teeth. I cut my gums trying and I don't have huge gaps in between my teeth.
# 11
Luke
Member
Joined: 07/26/00
Posts: 77
I often play with my teeth, but it is just a trick for the crowd, don't do it as a regular thing.

I loved most of the guitarists of the 80's, but I'm not sure about all of you, but EVH IMO was kind of a onr trick pony.

EVERY VH song sounds the same to me, I have never thought he was good.

And alot of shredders do know how to read music, but I don't know how you can say EVH is better because he didn't.

I can do all of the harder guitar techniques but I'm still learning to read music.

Because basically, if a person doesn't know how to read music IMO I don't know how they can call themselves musicians.

And I have no idea how a true guitarist can actually like Eminem.

Please don't get me wrong, I mean no offence to anyone, these are just my views
When attempting the impossible, you achieve the best possible
# 12
Raskolnikov
Guitar Tricks Moderator
Joined: 07/05/00
Posts: 2,907
I don't think of playing fast as a crutch to make up for an inability to write a chord progression or melody. And lets face it, playing fast is alot of fun, for me theirs nothing like dropping down into E, and just burning it up w/ some fast funk bass. It's a blast, but that's not the sort of thing I want to do all night. The fact is I do like writing interesting progressions, and that sort of thing speaks to people better. Also, it's really hard to play w/ soul if you're playing that fast. Most shredders sound really cold to me; amazing technique, little passion. As much as I love Buckethead, theirs only one part of "Monsters and Robots" where he brings it up to that next level, and that's in the very last song, but that's what I love most about that album.
So in other words, I love to show off, but I come from the blues school of thought: nothing speaks your mind like a good bend.
Raskolnikov
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# 13
LuigiCabrini
Senior Member
Joined: 06/23/00
Posts: 207
I read music, but I think it's possible to understand music theory without reading music. You can know how to build 13th chords and the modes of the melodic minor without knowing where the notes are on the page.
Still, for a guitarrist, it's a good skill to have, and it will set you apart from other guitarrists. Especially if you can sight read well. I focus more on sight reading chords than melody lines, because hey, as a guitarrist, you don't have to read melody lines as often as you'll have to read chords.
As for 80s guitarrists, I personally think that shred is a style of music far overrated by guitarrists. Fast guitar passages do not justify music with little melodic and harmonic content. I'm not saying all shred is like this, I'm just saying that I think that many shred guitarrists use speed as a crutch to hide lack of anything musical that they have to say. "I may not be able to write a melody or chord progression, but I can play really fast, so you want notice." Or: "When I improvise, since I don't have any ability to create interesting lines, I'll just sweep arpeggios at light speed."

# 14
Shlag
New Member
Joined: 07/08/00
Posts: 23
I know this is way off on 70's and 80's rock, but I don't think EVH originally started finger tapping, becuase my dad had a song from this Spanish acoustic player from 1800's and he was tapping like a motherf**ker. He was tapping and playing some scales at the same time. Well it's hard to explain.
# 15
Shlag
New Member
Joined: 07/08/00
Posts: 23
When I meant my dad had a tape from the 1800's, I meant he had a tape which had a classical musician playing a song which was originally born in the 1800's, uh hoped that helped?
# 16
LuigiCabrini
Senior Member
Joined: 06/23/00
Posts: 207
I think you're agreeing with me here man. What I meant wasn't that whenever somebody is playing fast, they're doing it cause they want to hide lack of musicianship.
I was saying that many people from the 80s used fast scalar and sweep arpeggio techniques to cover up the lack of much substance in their work. I listen to a lot of fast mofos (Jimmy Bruno, Pat Metheny, Mike Stern, Tal Farlow) but not cause they're fast. They only turn on the juice occassionally, and it's not the kind of thing you'd listen to just to be impressed by speed, because they're not playing fast that often, unlike most shred players who, if they can play fast, will do so for about 50 percent of each of their songs. (That doesn't go for yngwie, he does it for 80 percent, maybe more.)
Sure playing fast and impressive is fun, but if it becomes more of a focus than putting actual musical ideas into your work, as I think it did many (but not all) 80s guitarrists, then there's a problem.
# 17
Raskolnikov
Guitar Tricks Moderator
Joined: 07/05/00
Posts: 2,907
yeah, pretty much, I think we have slightly different slants on this.
Raskolnikov
Guitar Tricks Moderator

Careful what you wish for friend
I've been to Hell and now I'm back again

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# 18
ezshuffle
Member
Joined: 04/24/00
Posts: 33
i think your dad has a tape of a guitarist and his interpretation of playing classical music but he plays with both hands ala michael fath...who recorded in the eighties...another phenomenal 80's guitarist...

evh was not the first guitarist to use two hand tapping but he was the first guy who made everyone else want to do it

my dad played guitar for years acoustically and that did not turn my crank...but once he turned on his strat thru a fender twin reverb that did it for me i was hooked

do any of you guys remember the first guy who ever used a pick instead of fingers???didn't think so...but i guarantee you remember the first guitar player that made you want to play the guitar...

"we are all here to learn"
# 19
Slink
New Member
Joined: 08/10/00
Posts: 4
What the hell? Since when did TALENT matter? Sorry, but as a punk I find this forum ludicrous. Who cares who copied who with fingertapping? Hendrix, Clapton, Townsend and company did just about everything left to be done. And I hate Van Halen. Eighties music is no less horrible than seventies music seemed in the eighties. Sheesh...
Slink
Go be mad somewhere else, Goths.
# 20