Feeling the Song-Writing Blues?

Ok, I've been in the band scene for a long time and one of the most under-rated things is song-writing. Truth be told, its one of the hardest things to do. Shredding and strutting you guitar SKEELLZZ is easy coz you just have to practice and practice to master it. Song-writing is something else. Its HOLY **** stuff that demand time and attention. YOu can just be writing some back-street boys track and expect to make it big as a band. It takes creativity and artistry - and finese. SO OK. Pretty intimidating but also challenge that can inspire musicians to take it UP A NOTCH.

My say basically is when your sick and tired of hearing the same thing and covering the same song OVER AND OVER AGAIN. go pick up your guitar and ready a pad of paper and a pen. write something original. it'll seem like crap compared to the stuff Maynard writes (Tool and A Perfect Circle). or do you even dare to equal Thom Yorke (Radiohead)?? NO YOU DONT HAVE TO EQUAL any of them. thats the point of song-writing. you dont have to follow anybody else and that gives you all the freedom to do your OWN thing.

yeah. just do it. and if your starting to feel pressured, give it a rest and give your fav bands a good listen and try to figure out how they became as great as they are now. yeah. then go back to writing.

lol.

hope that helps other fellow song-writers out there.. lemme know your thoughts on this.. i'm always open. ;)

Kat


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http://www.a-musical-link.com

I'm not sure what you mean by "Song Writing". I play guitar, but I am not much of a musician. I do consider myself a songwriter. I find lyric writing comes easy for me. I write the lyrics and then sing while playing chords on the guitar in turn creating the melody. I then work out a few riffs and licks and I have song ready for copywrite.

Then some friends and I get together and next thing you know we have a demo to send off to the publisher. My work differs from most, because I am not trying to promote myself or my friends as artists or performers. I am promoting only the song.

My music is Americana, Country, Bluegrass, Folk, etc. My way of doing things may be different with the music you prefer.

If you are talking about lyric writing is not something you practice to produce lyrics, you are wrong. I practice lyric writing all the time. I may hear something in a conversation that catches my interest and I would write a few lines or even just one line. I save it to my idea folder on the computer for future reference. Down the road if I am writing something and I am stuck for line or idea, I go to my "Ideas" folder and behold! There's the line I was looking for.

I also practice rhyming. I will jot down things and just sit there trying to make them rhyme.

Yes, lyric writing is pretty easy for me. My biggest problem is coming up a tune.

As for something getting old. You can always try doing your own version of the song or changing the tempo or even changing instruments.

Now for working under pressure. It is great practice to work under pressure. It increases your abilities and sharpness. If you are stuck, you do need to take a break (go for a walk, watch some TV, etc) and get away from it for awhile, but do come back. I myself do not have any pressure with song writing. I reuse to sign any contract forcing me to produce any number of songs or even one song in a particular time period. I write a song and when I am finished, they can buy all rights to it or not. I don't really care, of course, song writing is not my only source of income. One who relies totally on songwriting to pay the bills may not be able to take such an attitude.

I could go on for hours, but I have to go for now. I'll come back later to read any replys.

I try and write a new song every week on the guitar. It might take several weeks thereafter to tweak it a bit, but the basic foundation/structure or layout is there. I write the music on the guitar first. Usually it's a melody or riff that I have in my head, or something that I've accidentally played on the guitar while not thinking - those are the best. Anyhow, once the seed of the idea is in my head, it's just a matter of working out the parts - what's the intro, the verse parts, the chorus, the bridge, if any, etc. I usually don't write any particular solo, but I know whether a bridge, an intro, a chorus, or a verse is gonna come after the solo. It takes time to work-out, but usually the flow of the song will dictate how to structure and where it should go verse, chorus, verse, chorus, or verse, verse, chorus, etc.

I listen to my favorite bands and their songs and break their songs down into parts played as intro, during verses, etc. That way, the song itself becomes a collection of pieces that are tied together nicely.

I always id the key I'm playing in and try and stick to the chords in the key of that major scale, but since I use root/fifth chords alot, I don't have to worry about minor chords and when to use.

I usually don't write words to my songs, but the tempo and riffs of my songs usually lend themselves very easily to lyrics. It wouldn't take a genius to compose lyrics and/or a melody that fit nicely into the song.

I'm a pure guitar nutcase so I don't consider a "complete" song as a song only with lyrics. As long as there exists the structure of the song, almost anything lyrically can be composed or adapted to it. Of course, like anything else, the music may have to give in some areas and take in others once the lyrics are written.

Just my take.

[QUOTE=TexAxe]I'm a pure guitar nutcase so I don't consider a "complete" song as a song only with lyrics. As long as there exists the structure of the song, almost anything lyrically can be composed or adapted to it. Of course, like anything else, the music may have to give in some areas and take in others once the lyrics are written[QUOTE=TexAxe]

I realize everyone has a different approach to everything, however, our main difference is our view on lyrics. I don't consider a song complete without lyrics. Lyrics along with the music is what "hooks" the listener into it.

I know compositions do not all have lyrics, such as, orchestrations and movie backgrounds may not have words. These recordings without lyrics are considered instumentals, not necessarily songs. This is just a matter of opinion and verbage, but I want you consider how many songs are played on the radio (all stations) and how many do not have lyrics?

So, now we are back to my original question several treads ago. How serious are you about song writing?

[QUOTE=TexAxe]It wouldn't take a genius to compose lyrics and/or a melody that fit nicely into the song.[QUOTE=TexAxe]

You're statement gives one the impression that you feel lyric writing is not that important to a good song and that anyone can write a successful verse, chorus, bridge, or refrain that includes all the rules of lyric writing, which I don't have time to go into right now. That it real doesn't matter what you write as long as the music is good. If this is what you are saying, then all I have say is you are completely wrong. The lyrics and music must both appeal to the listener. They together must get their interest and keep their interest throughout the entire composition.

You find music writing easy and I find lyric writing easy, but both have a job to do and both have to do it well.

What I stated before has been quoted out of context. Lyrics, like the music itself, can either be composed along with the music, or separate from it, like a poem(s). I'm not saying that lyrics are not important. They are. However, a complete song on guitar doesn't necessarily need lyrics. Classical music or guitar is a great example. Even in modern music, instrumentals are not totally unheard of ... Classical Gas, comes to mind, and I'm positive there are thousands of others that I'm not aware of. At any rate, pop music has lyrics and so does most anything on the radio - cool whatever. But, songwriting has to start somewhere.

I think the main thing in songwriting is LISTENING. LISTEN to your chord changes, how they are played, the tempo, etc. and that sometimes will dictate what mood is coming across and, therefore, what lyrics should be and sound like. You also gotta remember who you are writing for: to please yourself, a certain type of music, pop music, or whatever. Some songs will lend themselves more naturally to certain styles of music. Other songs, on the other hand, may be different and lean towards a different style of music.

If you like composing songs on guitar, start with the guitar. If you wanna write lyrics also, then do so as well. Whether they are done together at the same time or not, many times the tempo of the song and chord changes will dicatate the melody and lyrics. And, above all, keep it simple. Some of the best, most enduring songs are simple and tight in structure with simple lyrics and melody. It's not rocket science. It's creativity. Know the rules and then play with them to create what you want.

I agree and I'm sorry I flew off the handle.
I agree with everything you said and it was well said.
Thanks,

What is with the massive walls of text up there?

Anyways, I was always a good writer, so I actually like songwriting :eek:

I also can't sing, so I have to use my creativity to make spoken word work in rock. I believe it can actually work if you have the balls to take the flak from vocal purists (half-spoken works for Tool and RHCP, which is always nice to know for us vocally-challenged ;) ).
On another note, my biggest songwriting influence is poetry, which helps a lot here.


My only problem does seem to be coming up with concepts. Once I get that down, I can usually complete an album in one sitting :p


If you ever want to talk about writing, just PM me.

Originally Posted by: BJoy
On another note, my biggest songwriting influence is poetry, which helps a lot here.

I have written poetry since I was knee high to a grasshopper. Writing poetry is a great help in songwriting as far as rhyming and vocabulary. However, poetry and songwriting are very different. Poetry relies on the rhyming, meaning, and a constant rythme. Usually the same number of syllables per line.

A song has many different other factors needed to hold the interest of the listener. The music is one of biggest factors. If one does not like the music (playing, instruments, beat, vocal, style, etc.) they will not like the song. A song may have a different number of syllables per line, changes in melody (a bridge) or even a change in scale. All of these things are entered into when someone determines they like a song.

Songs are not just poetry set to music.

Spoken words in a song are great if done right. I don't think I would like a song with all spoken word, but if that's your thing, enjoy.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by: looneytunesPoetry relies on the rhyming, meaning, and a constant rythme. Usually the same number of syllables per line.

Not true at all. There are all types of poetry, only some use rhyming.

It may be the type of poetry you enjoy the most, or write, but that statement is like saying all songs have to have a guitar in them.


Pure hog wash on both counts.

Originally Posted by: da_ardvarkNot true at all. There are all types of poetry, only some use rhyming.

I like Free-Verse poetry that depends completely on delivery.

Originally Posted by: da_ardvarkNot true at all. There are all types of poetry, only some use rhyming.

It may be the type of poetry you enjoy the most, or write, but that statement is like saying all songs have to have a guitar in them.


Pure hog wash on both counts.

It is true that some people believe poetry and song lyrics do not have to rhyme. If this is what you believe that’s fine, however, in most cases, they do. The traditional format and most accepted, is as set forth in Webster’s Dictionary;

Poetry: the art of rhythmical composition, written or spoken, for exciting pleasure by beautiful, imaginative, or elevated thoughts.

Song: a short metrical composition intended or adapted for singing, esp. one in rhymed stanzas; a lyric; a ballad.

Poetry as is in music can detour from the traditional format because it is the writer who sets the rules. It is the writer’s creativity that makes the poem, but you missed the whole meaning of my statement.

I wasn’t questioning whether or not a poem or song should rhyme. I was saying that writing a poem differs from writing a song, because a song has many more ingredients to make it pleasing and interesting to the listener.

Maybe I just wasn’t clear enough. I’m sorry if that’s the case.

Have a nice day!

I just started writing songs about a year ago. I love blues and being over 50 and losing lots of loves and being poor, not poor and poor and not poor definely gives me lot s of material to work with. I have a blast, I usually get the idea then I write down a ton of lines that go with the idea, not even thinking of the music yet.. Then once i have all the lines writen down I will try to put it in some meaninful order while at the same time creating the rythm. Once I have the song flow and the rythm some what down I come up with the drum track. ( usaully basic) (drummer pro - great program) Then since I also play the bass I drop down the bassline ( I have three basses to choose from, Fender jp90, Fender Victor Bailey Accoustic and a Palantino Upright bass.) Then I play around with the diffrent guitars I have figuring out which one sounds best with the lead rythm and or other fills. I am not a great guitar player or have a great voice so it can be hard to make the song sound just right but what the heck it's the blues... And I am having a ball..
I did this one here that is on the listening forum..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJFN_p5KjGA

Originally Posted by: sailorjimI just started writing songs about a year ago. I love blues and being over 50 and losing lots of loves and being poor, not poor and poor and not poor definely gives me lot s of material to work with. I have a blast, I usually get the idea then I write down a ton of lines that go with the idea, not even thinking of the music yet.. Then once i have all the lines writen down I will try to put it in some meaninful order while at the same time creating the rythm. Once I have the song flow and the rythm some what down I come up with the drum track. ( usaully basic) (drummer pro - great program) Then since I also play the bass I drop down the bassline ( I have three basses to choose from, Fender jp90, Fender Victor Bailey Accoustic and a Palantino Upright bass.) Then I play around with the diffrent guitars I have figuring out which one sounds best with the lead rythm and or other fills. I am not a great guitar player or have a great voice so it can be hard to make the song sound just right but what the heck it's the blues... And I am having a ball..
I did this one here that is on the listening forum..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJFN_p5KjGA

I definitely hear the BB King influence in there, whether it is intentional or not.

I write songs for about 13 or 14 years and I have to admit that it's still as hard for me to write lyrics ...
The main reason is probaby because I'm french and I write in english. But even when I tried t write in french, it was hard ... and less melodic !

I tried to find some ressources to improve my lyric-writing abilities and I found out several things, but one of the best is an audio course by Shamir Rele, called "Songwriting course". It's an interview he made with a professionnal songwriter, who explains very deeply the various topics related to songwriting.
I found this to be very helpful to me, and this gave me new ideas and perspectives about my songwritings.

Originally Posted by: Music_MuncherOk, I've been in the band scene for a long time and one of the most under-rated things is song-writing. Truth be told, its one of the hardest things to do. Shredding and strutting you guitar SKEELLZZ is easy coz you just have to practice and practice to master it. Song-writing is something else. Its HOLY **** stuff that demand time and attention. YOu can just be writing some back-street boys track and expect to make it big as a band. It takes creativity and artistry - and finese. SO OK. Pretty intimidating but also challenge that can inspire musicians to take it UP A NOTCH.

My say basically is when your sick and tired of hearing the same thing and covering the same song OVER AND OVER AGAIN. go pick up your guitar and ready a pad of paper and a pen. write something original. it'll seem like crap compared to the stuff Maynard writes (Tool and A Perfect Circle). or do you even dare to equal Thom Yorke (Radiohead)?? NO YOU DONT HAVE TO EQUAL any of them. thats the point of song-writing. you dont have to follow anybody else and that gives you all the freedom to do your OWN thing.

yeah. just do it. and if your starting to feel pressured, give it a rest and give your fav bands a good listen and try to figure out how they became as great as they are now. yeah. then go back to writing.

lol.

hope that helps other fellow song-writers out there.. lemme know your thoughts on this.. i'm always open. ;)

Kat


------------
http://www.a-musical-link.com

Muncher,

Just a quick response. You said, "Shredding and strutting you guitar SKEELLZZ is easy coz you just have to practice and practice to master it."

Just what makes you think writing (poetry, lyrics, short stories, novels, anything) doesn't take just as much practice, time, effort and talent as playing a musical instrument? Personally, I'm a poet who learned to play guitar to put my words to music. Same as Leonard Cohen. Did I come in the backdoor or something? Have you read any poetry books lately? Try some by Leonard Cohen. Spicebox of Earth is good. Or get his novel Beautiful Losers. That's one novel I would have to call poetry. Have you sat down and practiced writing without a musical instrument?

You have to take writing as seriously as you do music. "You just have to practice and practice to master it."

Neil

Originally Posted by: rollotapeMuncher,

Just a quick response. You said, "Shredding and strutting you guitar SKEELLZZ is easy coz you just have to practice and practice to master it."

Just what makes you think writing (poetry, lyrics, short stories, novels, anything) doesn't take just as much practice, time, effort and talent as playing a musical instrument? Personally, I'm a poet who learned to play guitar to put my words to music. Same as Leonard Cohen. Did I come in the backdoor or something? Have you read any poetry books lately? Try some by Leonard Cohen. Spicebox of Earth is good. Or get his novel Beautiful Losers. That's one novel I would have to call poetry. Have you sat down and practiced writing without a musical instrument?

You have to take writing as seriously as you do music. "You just have to practice and practice to master it."

Neil

Bravo! Man! Did you hit the nail on the head! Good Work!