Satch and Vai

I was wondering what would be on there training rejeuim that would make them last 13 hours? because i really would like to know how they train so i can do the same and explore those kinda horizons. if anyone has an idea or some examples please post. cheers

---Lao Tzu---

Mr Vai published a 10 and then 30 hour workout in guitar world. The 10 hour one is here - although I haven't checked the content against the orignal. There are some dodgy guys selling it as an ebook on ebay too if you want that.

There's all sorts of stuff in there, much of it no real use in my opinion. I did the 10 hour workout a few times years ago, and I also did the 30 hour one more recently to see if I could.... :D

loads of it is about finger independence, if you've acheived that there's not really as much here.

have you seen the satch lessons book? It's on amazon here and I found that ALOT more useful. I know you don't like to pay for things, but this book doesn't cost much and is well worth it in my opinion.

The last interview I saw with Satriani... he said something like this after he was asked how he prepares for a tour versus how he plays normally... I'll paraphrase:

"When I was first learning guitar I completely submersed myself in it and would play 8-10 hours on average... a day. Sometimes more. Now a days on average I don't play more than 30 minutes to an hour or so on some days... It's hard to think of things to practice when I know every scale and every chord... it's hard to get myself to practice when I can listen to a song on the radio and pick out every chord in the song and visualive the fingering almost instantaneously... As for getting ready for a tour... I'll play 2-3 hours a day... going over the set lists repeatedly... but no, I don't practice that much anymore."

if that answers the question about Satch.... haha. I got it as close to the original quotes as I could from my memory.

Lao, -- DUDE,

I am not by any means bashing you -- get over the "Hero Worship. I only point this out becuase you have a VERY RECURRING THEME in every one of your posts -- UHMM "Satch and Vai"

Becuase - I am going out on a limb on this -- Your hero's would tell you the same thing"

Dude WE ALL KNOW that Satch and Vai are you influences. Have you looked into the influences of your influences? You may be suprised to see names like Hendrix and Zappa. Look into these players and their influences also you may see/hear the influence.

I am not trying to squash your dreams or desires... but alot of your posts have this theme of "Satch and Vai are gods and I want to be just like them".

This is a guitar commnity and we are all willing to help pass along knowledge and pointers but if all you really want to know is "Sacth and Vai" then we are not really going to be able to help out all that much.

I remember the original "not of this earth" by Satch (the indie not the AMI re issue) read alot of articles he wrote for various gtr mags and the one thing he would say in each of his articles was (paraphrasing) "earn all types anddiffernt ways of playing to improve and create your own [U]sound and style[/U].


to wrap up -- This community is here to help add pointers etc to help you along your jouney. SO TO NOT BE ANOTHER CLONE AMONG 1,000's . Expand and open your mind to other players that have 1) Inspired Satch and Vai 2) have been inspred by Satch and Vai but have their own voice/sound.

Sorry if I came down on you and some of the persons that know me know that this is not the norm but... Enough already. OPEN YOUR MIND AND YOUR EARS TO WHAT IS AROUND YOU! I may be overs tepping my boundries here but.... you are just hurting yourself by keeping such a closed minded perspective on your playing by focusing on just 2--2---2----2 of the many , many, MANY guitar players out there both past and present.

Well i'm sorry the guy can't have people to look up to.

Originally Posted by: aschleman

"When I was first learning guitar I completely submersed myself in it and would play 8-10 hours on average... a day.

didn't he have school? :confused:

Im very skeptical when people say they practice more than 5 hours day daily. To me its overkill. I get sick of playing guitar for extended periods of time. It also causes hearing fatigue, you start to get tired of your guitar sound.

or maybe im just a pussy who cant handle riding the lightning... :o

Originally Posted by: alucard0941

or maybe im just a pussy who cant handle riding the lightning... :o

If you are, then so am I; I get sick of my playing after about half an hour, if that. People who practice for hours each day probably do it in bursts, rather than in one sitting.

Hero worship is part of what drives a lot of people to play in the first place. If I hadn't seen Clapton when I was seven years old, I don't know if/when I would have picked up a guitar. Jimmy makes a fair point on opening your mind to other artists / musicians though....

A guy called me asking for lessons, saying he wanted to play 'Just like Joe Satriani'. I took it with a pinch like you do, and arranged a lesson. When he turned up, he had a shaved head and was wearing oakleys, had a JS guitar etc etc etc. I wish I was lying, but I'm not even exaggerating... :eek: He actually wanted to be satriani... Why would you want to play like someone else already does? You're not going to do it better than them unless you innovate.

Point I guess is that a bit of enthusiasm and hero worship don't hurt anyone, but if you turn into a proper fan-boy, people might find it hard to take you seriously.

On the subject of elongated practice - I sometimes manage 3 hours at a stretch, it depends what I'm doing. I've long suspected that guitar players just make stuff up to sound cool, or more 'muso' or whatever. Steve Vai I would say is the most guilty. For instance, I don't believe he used to go to bed listening to a tape of a constant 'A' note, and then woke up being able to see pitch as colour, identify any A instantly blah blah.

I met Vai a while ago, and while I respect his capability on guitar, I found the whole 'guitar as religion' thing pretty irritating, and any reference you see to him not having any ego is a flat out lie.... :rolleyes:

anyone knows that joe satriani is a wide vocabulary. if you didnt have music before you how could u know what kinda style u want to create?
im being honest and saying i like there styles and i want to have the same amount of knowledge as they do so i can create beautiful music of my own. im not saying that i go out and be exactly like joe or vai. i respect them alot for what they have done. i know there influences already. im not stupid. and yet i still prefer there style satrianis more than vais. coz of vais ego to play a song live and i think what goes thru his head is "ill start on this note which is in the song and find the last note and ill show of inbetween and forget the song tottally" attitude is really gay i couldnt listen to vai for along time after i saw him live in london. altho some of his stuff like windows to the soul for the love of god and more are execellent works. . i really admire the knowledge behind it and i want a peice. as for satriani i dont see him as a good rather a very accomplished musician. the way i see it is there human so am i i can do what he can do if i want to. and i do. and i know ur probably gunna debate about naturall talent (in my opnion it is learnt not born bred.) but ive been told by several important people that i can do anything i desire with music. im just trying to find the key to it. i hope this satifies ur thirst about me. if i was really gunna do any music it would sound like pink floyd but its been and done.

back to the main point of this topic which was to help my skills. i see what ur saying jimmy and im greatful for ur concern but i can handle myself. let it go. if u google my name ul see what i mean. yes anywho is there anymore stuff out there.?

Originally Posted by: Lao_Tzuback to the main point of this topic which was to help my skills. i see what ur saying jimmy and im greatful for ur concern but i can handle myself. let it go. if u google my name ul see what i mean. yes anywho is there anymore stuff out there.?

I cant tell you how many players I have played with who have learned almost note for note every song they love by there favorite players. And boy they at first shock, and impress me with there abilities, but after they have played me all the songs they have under there belt then comes the point where its time to get off other peoples matieral, and have some fun with some improvisation. You know horsing around trying to come up together with some good sounds working to stay in key with each other one working rhythm, and the other working in the lead. You know just having some fun trying to be creative. Usually this is the point where I realize they havent the slightest idea of what musical knowledge was put into creating the songs they have put so much time, and effort into learning. And there lack of the fundamentals becomes apparent when they are not able to improv along with me in any sort of key knowledge, or very little, getting lost, and out of time with the sequence Im trying to create for them so we can play along with each other. And for me that is some of the most fun getting a good improv jam going.
My point is just because you can play someone elses song note, for note, and with simular technique does not mean you in any way possess the vast knowledge,and skill level of that gutiarist, your just copying their material, and picking up parts of their style without knowing the reasoning put into the composition. The majority of these type players, (not all), but most of those who concentrate on learning the licks of there heros, should also put just as much effort into learning the musical structures, key, and principals underlieng the song there learning. And definitely study music theroy, and diatonic function with chords, and scales, and modes just as stringently as learning the players songs you admire. This is of course a start ( where we all start), but once you figure out you can, and like to play gutiar let it be known that those 10, or 20 hour practice sessions ( I wish I had your energy ) need to have at least half that time devoted to Theroy, Technique, and basic musical understanding, and looking deep into the players you idolize for there take on the above mentioned fields of study is the best way to get into there heads as for how and why they put there sounds together in the ways you seem to like.
This may already be what you are doing. And you certainly have found some excellent role models. I am mainly writing this for those who may not fully grasp the requirements for becoming gutiar Gods. Form the sound of it you have the drive. Just think of it like this. Ok I can play Joe Satrianis songs just like his sound, now can I make a song of my own up that will blow a audience away like he, or Steve Via can, and what knowledge will be required to compose such skillful style, and after I play that song can I throw the audience some off the cuff improvisation with confidence, and possibly handle a 15, to 20 song set list with equally complicated songs.
Your claimed gutiar practice ethic show you have the desire, just be careful of burn out, and try to keep friends for band members who share your goals, and can hang in there with you, and like the same type of styles, and you may go all the way. Trying to do it all by your self will limit the advantage of having other opinions, and help with learning. Two, or more heads are better than one. Finding the right heads is the key.
( Tip ) Finding a singer that can peel the paint of the walls would go great with such monster gutiar sounds.
I know Satriani, and Vai are mostly solo artists, so that may be your thing, but still surounding yourself with good musicians is the best way to learn new things starting out, ( You may not be starting out, im just saying for those who are ).
Wow, 10, to 20 hour practice sessions. I bet you need super glue to fill in the holes in your fingers to keep playing? Awesom dude!

I think that practicing 8+ hour a day it is possible, my teacher (former guitar player) was really bad when we started (we all were actually) bu the thing is when the other guitar player joined the band he learned everithing by him self (no teacher) so Jerzey felt... mmm.. bad I guess, so he started practicing bout 8 hours a day and in just a couple of months he wes getting up to speed with Hugo and eventually became even more "technical" than Hugo.

So my point is, 2...3...8...12 hrs... it's just a matter of what are you trying to achive, someone said "make a plan for your practice" in this post, you start maybe with independence and picking, then some scales, speed on scales, single string scales, multiple string scales, chords, maybe some listening (styles and stuff) and some writting.
If you put all that together ya may get to the 4 or 5 hours easy (without getting tediously boring in some parts).

And maybe I must stress the listening part.

A famous drummer called Adam Nussbaum once said "when it comes to technic, I don't wan't just fast hand, but fast ears"

Getting music in your head getting melody out of all that hours of practice it's the real deal (ok... shredding and noodling over some high gain power lick it's pretty fun too) but music should be the final goal, being able of doing it ripping... well.. that's attitude.

ive learnt thru joe satriani and actually watching his vidoes and reading this website that. when he teaches he teaches how to be you and not how to be him. he makes it so that when ur playing the guitar he makes sure that he makes u play with ur hands nad not his if u get my meaning. read www.foreverjoe.com.

my main and most important influence is lao tzu and chaung Tzu there not musicians but if they were there music would still be echoing now. which it is thru there books.

as for a guitar god i agree with joe satriani when he said about this magazine " there calling me a guitar god, what can i do with that? its no use to me." ;) always a practical thinker.

ive also realised that slowing down to around 60 bpm's to work out what is comfortable
REALLY helps what your doing. it should never be about chops or fast playing which ive come to realize now. its what suits you as a player. for progress u must slow down in order to speed up as once a wise person taught me. ive just seen a huge difference in my playing from slowing down and getting it right. than doing a 1000and notes and getting it wrong. i agree with joe when he says quality over quantity. because ur cultivating good playing. i think that playing should be a way to relax if it doesnt relax u then ur doing it wrong.

i would like some feedback on these principles because im trying real hard to get my head around starting .

It's a basic principle advocated by everybody - you have to be able to play slow before you can play fast. You have to be accurate and in time at slow tempos before there is any point in trying to crank it up.

Speed is a by-product of good technique. I spent my teenage years doing exercises to get faster, but I've seen greater improvement overall since I hit my 20s and realised speed of itself was not a goal worth pursuing.

I still do speed drills to push myself, but only now and again instead of constantly. I'm now not very interested in the mechanical aspect of guitar playing anymore, but more on the theory end, modes of other scale types etc etc.

I've been playing for 22 years now, and I still practice 2-3 hours a day 99% of days. I'll probably never stop learning.

Only other observation on slow practice would be to practice at a speed you find difficult. There are licks I can play at 40bpm and 200bpm, but for whatever reason I screw them up at 127bpm - so that's what I'll practice. Always practice the stuff you can't do - sounds obvious but so many people keep going over the stuff they can do, as it's more immediately rewarding...