lyrics


iiholly
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iiholly
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04/11/2004 6:33 am
Just out of curiousity what do you guys think makes a song good "lyrically"?

# 1
Seve420
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Seve420
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04/11/2004 7:34 am
I find that lyrics don't really hold a lot of importance. I only really take notice of Pig Destroyer, Tool and Opeth lyrics apart from learning them to sing along.

I like Pig Destroyer lyrics because they have underlying messages and are quite poetic, which doesn't really fit with the music. eg

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"They heckle the gunshy assassin.
Led away in shame.
The chameleon is my favorite animal.
I learned that boys in dresses are ok on the last day of school.
There was a rainbow like a halo over the world."


Ghost Of A Bullet
"Fingerprints on my eyes like ten tiny maps to heaven.
Or ten rogue angels torching the house of god.
I fell something pressing against my kidneys.
Maybe a pair of wings.
Maybe the ghost of a bullet."



I like Opeth lyrics because they are more than the average Death Metal gore lyrics, but I guess they are more than the average Death Metal band.

I was also intrigued by Carcass lyrics because they are what is best described as intellectual gore.

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"Bi-manual reconstruction, eldritch problem complete
A convened effigy
A pathological toy, each chunk rigorously
Inter mortis locking, as you pathogenically rot
Such a perplexing task
To fit the remains in the casket
Uliginous mess so quiescent... "

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# 2
basics
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basics
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04/12/2004 3:47 am
Lyrics should relate to your target audience and have some relevence to the tone of the song.

Pop music it's the opposite sex and money for example. Suits pretty much everybody without a brain.

Also some catchy phrase, or an intelligent ... theme, story, or point would be ideal.
# 3
Lordathestrings
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Lordathestrings
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04/12/2004 6:11 am
Ya gotta hear 'em before you can decide if ya like 'em or not.

Neil Pert of Rush puts a lot of time and thought into his stuff, but it wouldn't mean a thing if Geddy Lee garbled them when he sang.

I remember when Peter Gabriel released "Games Without Frontiers" a lot of people thought the female chorus in the background was saying "She's so popular". It was actually a French translation of the title - "Jeus sans frontiers."! :rolleyes:
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# 4
iamthe_eggman
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iamthe_eggman
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04/12/2004 1:56 pm
I've actually thought about this quite a bit, and more so with a new band where I have a new songwriting partner. In my old band, the bassist wrote all the songs, and basically 90% of his lyrics I thought were amazing, better than other lyrics that I hear every day on the radio.

Now, I'm working with this other guy, and it's different, since he writes more alt-rocky lyrics, even *shudder* emo.... So, while I do like some of his lyrics, I've been working on writing some of my own.

So, I've seen what I think are really good lyrics, and now I've seen what I think are.... not really good lyrics. I'd say that really good lyrics begin with a distinct message or focus, a theme that ties everything together.

I'd also say that they shouldn't be overly descriptive... well, actually, that's debatable. More specifically, I think they should not go into agonizing detail about feelings. Emotions are at the root of songs, and when you pick them apart lyrically, it cheapens them by defining them. It's best to leave interpretation to the audience by being more subtle or vague than your actual feelings are.

Good lyrics should work on different levels, too. Not just in-your-face, "I hate you, you broke up with me and now I'm depressed and miserable"-type lyrics, but ones where you can listen to the song a hundred times and then, finally, one day it hits you what the song is really about...

I saw an interesting method for writing lyrics in a Mick Jagger documentary (and I've written this here before). He carries a notebook around with him everywhere, and when the muse strikes, he writes his ideas down. He doesn't write down lyrics, though, he writes it as prose, or a free-flowing story (i.e. no rhyming). Then, when his guitarist or whoever (maybe even himself) comes up with some music, he flips through his book, picks a story that he thinks will fit, then makes up lyrics based on those thoughts.

Wow... long post. But, I still wanted to add the names of some lyricists who I consider great:

Bob Dylan
- Can be trippy, poetic, epic or emotional - all at once, or one at a time

Bono
- Except for some of the stuff off of Zooropa (Babyface... ugh), he has written some brilliant lyrics that don't sacrifice the "rock out" factor. Probably my favourite lyricist and singer.

Roger Waters
- If Bono isn't my favourite at any particular moment, it's because Roger Waters has taken over. I read the lyrics to "Meddle" (the album) before I ever heard any of the songs, and that's what made me buy the album. They were incredibly beautiful, they could stand as poetry without musical support.

The dude from Third Eye Blind
- I'm being serious here. My new bandmate turned me on to these guys (well, more so than before). His lyrics are more up-to-date than my other picks, and maybe even more *shudder* emo... but they work. I've only really heard the first album, though.
... and that's all I have to say about that.

[U]ALL[/U] generalizations are [U]WRONG[/U]

[/sarcasm]
# 5
noticingthemistake
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04/13/2004 3:13 am
I think the best lyrics are lyrics that tell a story that is very personal to author but everyone who reads them can relate to it. I know it's a cliche but most "love songs' fit this mold. Everyone has been in love, and even though the author has a different experience with love. People can still relate to it or most of what is said in the song.

Of course there are other topics than love. Even lyrics that are more of a storyboard, especially horror and sci-fi types. Storyboard lyrics make for great threatrical songwritting, my fav.

Also, when the lyrics utilize senses other than feeling and sight. I think the connection of the lyrics to the listener is enriched. Lyrics that touch on smell, taste, hearing, touch, and the way the body might react to the situation the song is presented in. These lyrics are much more powerful since the range of connection is greater. Even though the listener wouldn't have been in the exact same situation, they can always relate to the sense stimulations. It also breathes life into a song.

I like reading short stories and poetry rather than other songwritters for inspiration.
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# 6
iamthe_eggman
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04/13/2004 1:55 pm
Originally posted by noticingthemistake
I think the best lyrics are lyrics that tell a story that is very personal to author but everyone who reads them can relate to it. I know it's a cliche but most "love songs' fit this mold. Everyone has been in love, and even though the author has a different experience with love. People can still relate to it or most of what is said in the song.


I like reading short stories and poetry rather than other songwritters for inspiration.


I totally agree with you there, on both counts. And when you get right down to it, most songs are about love, in one way or another. Relationships, at least.

Also, I concur with you on the sources of inspiration. While I referenced a few other songwriters to show what I thought were great lyrics, I don't think that you should necessarily draw inspiration from them or any other songs. I've lent my new bandmate a couple of my classic poetry books for homework. I told him something along the lines of "a good writer should be a good reader", which is something I firmly believe in.
... and that's all I have to say about that.

[U]ALL[/U] generalizations are [U]WRONG[/U]

[/sarcasm]
# 7
spanky10940
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04/13/2004 5:40 pm
I think that lyrics are good when you get the point without having to dig into it...

the song touches you the way that the author penned it..

A buddy of mine is in an originals band and he asked me to give an honest critique of them - they were VERY tight and they are good musicians but the lyrics were so 80's touchy feely that the thing that comes across was that they had no message, or point to the song and were working too hard for metaphors and such... can't stand that..

say what you mean and mean what you say - makes it better for everyone involved.. especially the audience...
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# 8
basics
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04/13/2004 9:11 pm
Love and relationships and a troubled childhood don't appeal to me. Tell me about the meaning of life, analyze society, let me know about what you think about a particular event or object but don't tell me how you couldn't live without me or how you hate me.
# 9
Dante7978
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04/19/2004 12:37 am
For me, I don't really mind the lyrics used in a song, but I care how much emotion the singer puts into the lyrics of the song. Like Kurt Cobain, in my opinion, his lyrics aren't that great, but the emotion he puts into the songs are what makes it great.
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# 10
Cryptic Excretions
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Cryptic Excretions
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04/19/2004 4:51 pm
Lyrics are over rated and under rated. Over rated because they tend to be the main drive of a song and the up front focus, under rated because people tend to ignore them as a part of the song in a musical aspect. I think that good lyrics are ultimately something that comes from the heart and reaches out to the heart. They could be about killing and rape, a bad experience, love, hate anything you want, just so long as they come from the heart and reach to the world with feeling.
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# 11
kingdavid
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04/21/2004 12:14 pm
Originally Posted by: Seve420I find that lyrics don't really hold a lot of importance...[/quote]
I could give a few reasons why lyrics are important,but I'll just give this one:
[quote=Seve420]I like...lyrics because they have underlying messages and are quite poetic...

# 12
iiholly
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04/23/2004 2:38 am
Originally Posted by: kingdavidI could give a few reasons why lyrics are important,but I'll just give this one:


I was going to let this comment pass, because I thought it was true but then I thought it about it a while and realized it was wrong. Music has as much of an underlying meaning as any lyrics do. When one writes music they are not just thinking "I'm going to play this note, this note, and this note". More often then not they're thinking "I'm going to play this note because it makes me feel this way," or something to that effect. Thats just like writing. When one write sentences they are not just thinking "I'm going to write this word, this word, and this word." Rather they will set up the words in a way that communicates they're mesage the best. There are many way to say what I just said, but my basic point is that music as much as an aesthetic effect as poetry. They are both art.

# 13
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04/23/2004 2:24 pm
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# 14
iiholly
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04/24/2004 1:29 am
I wasn't saying one was better than the other. You said that the lyrics were more important to a song, but I disagree. That is all.

# 15
Cryptic Excretions
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04/24/2004 3:47 am
you have all basically proven me correct when I say that lyrics are the most over rated and under rated part of a song. In the sense that it's got the drive of the song and that it lacks value in creating a song. Lyrics do take knowledge and skill to write well. A better written lyric portrays more feeling and emotion than a blunt ****ty lyric. It lets the mind do some thinking while still having a grasp on the song as a whole. It can even allow someone else to feel what the band is feeling. To deny value in lyrics is like saying we all might as well be mute because we can feel and understand what anyone else is saying and there's nothing worth hearing from someone else's words. Of course saying they have the whole meaning in a song would be like saying we might as well bail on the music and just sit in dark clubs like beatnicks snapping our fingers when someone says something stupid and confuses it with something creative.
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# 16
Seve420
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04/24/2004 6:49 am
Originally Posted by: kingdavidI could give a few reasons why lyrics are important,but I'll just give this one:


When I listen to a song, the first thing I take notice of is the guitar. Then the drums and vocals. I care about how the person singing sounds and not too much about how much of great lyricist they are.

I just got EvilLyrics, a lyrics search tool that automatically finds the lyrics to songs that you are playing, so I don't have to bother looking them up so I'll probably be taking notice of lyrics a lot more.


EDIT:
I just saw the lyrics for Cannibal Corpse - I Cum Blood and now wish that I hadn't. It goes into detail about digging up a month old corpse and eatting the intestines of the dead woman from her pussy. Perhaps it's not so great to take notice of the lyrics to certain bands.
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# 17
Death55
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04/29/2004 8:33 am
Cannibal corpse do have some very strange lyrics. Hopefully they dont reflect what they are really like in real life !!!
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# 18
kingdavid
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04/29/2004 4:32 pm
Originally Posted by: Seve420...digging up a month old corpse and eatting the intestines of the dead woman from her pussy. Perhaps it's not so great to take notice of the lyrics to certain bands.

That's a ****ing gimmick.
And if someone writes lyrics like that,I can't expect them to be any more creative with their guitars.Just loud aimless noise I suppose,huh?(Some noise is aimfull,y'know).
# 19
Cryptic Excretions
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04/30/2004 6:32 am
Originally Posted by: kingdavidThat's a ****ing gimmick.
And if someone writes lyrics like that,I can't expect them to be any more creative with their guitars.Just loud aimless noise I suppose,huh?(Some noise is aimfull,y'know).



Say what?? Are you aware there is still skill involved? To write good death lyrics it's handy to know how to describe pain and death in a variety of ways. It's just as tricky as writing lyrics to a love song, same thing basically, just different topics. Try writing death metal lyrics then we'll take them and compare them to some death metal lyricists and see which is better. As far as loud and aimless noise goes, I can call country music noise all I want, but people still find musical quality in it. There's a skill involved in everything and death metal can have some tough parts in it. That just depends on the band you pick. And to rag on the lyrics to go with the music? Well what do you want them to sing about? Dancing in the fields at a picnic? (Imagine grunting death metal voice) Oooooh, this ****in sandwhich tastes so good, my fine lass can whip one up like no other. In times like this I wish to take her into my arms and watch the sun set as we ease into sleep in each others' arms AAAAAAHHHHH" I mean, c'mon, give them a break, at least they're doing what works with it. I don't want angry peole screaming about finding their loved ones. I want to hear someone get brutally raped then eaten alive. Death metal isn't death metal without the death.
The Gods Made Heavy Metal, And They Saw That It Was Good
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# 20

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