Here's a Riff

Hate to keep bugging you folks, but here's a riff:

|
|
|------------------------------14
|---------------14---15---18---
|12---15---17---
|

Doesn't it make more sense to play it:

|
|
|
|----------------14---15 etc?
|-----15---17---
|17---

If you play it the 2nd way though, your pick gets all tied up, and you couldn't pick once for each 3 notes going up the scale, forget what that's called. Is that a normal stretch? (12-15-17) and do you play it with the first, ring and pinky fingers? I tried it down an octave starting on the A on the E string. It's doable but quite the strech.

That's just like taking out the 2nd note on this 4 note per string scale fragment:

|12---14---15---17

right?

Play what feels comfortable to you, man. I would play the second one myself, that one just seems easier. The first one would be cool if it wasn't for the 14th fret being played on your G string. The first 2 strings have a climbing pull up the fret board which is cool, but going back to 14 on G is weird.

But it wouldn't be weird if you streched the pinky out to hit that 18 and then your first finger is right there to hit the G string 14. I think I'm streching my hand to the point where if continued on a regular basis will result in injury.

i would by sure choose the last way to play that riff. No doubt bout' that! :)

Here's how I would play the first one if I had to.


i /m p i /i p i
--------------------14--
-----------14-15-18-----
--12-15-17--------------


That would be just me, but I would play it the second way unless it absolutely needs to be that way. Which would depend both on where your coming from and where your going after this sequence. I always try to set each finger for each fret first. Stretching is only needed in some chromatic passages or on the high e string. That high up on the neck a stretch like that probably won't cause hand problem but the passage may be more difficult to play. Especially if you start playing more technical stuff.

yeah, that stretch isn't too bad. Add another fret in there and you've got a different story

---12---16---19----

See with that i would slide up from the 12th fret and play the 16th with the index finger and the 19th with the pinky. Granting that the rest of the sequence would be in the 16-19 range. If not I would just play it as...


-----11-14--
--12--------


Again you have to look at where your gonna be going and where you coming from to find a good position.

Also the first part, the last note I think sounds better as 16 on the G string rather than 14, cause it keeps it moving. Especially if your sliding up. Could be just me though.

Originally posted by noticingthemistake
See with that i would slide up from the 12th fret and play the 16th with the index finger and the 19th with the pinky. Granting that the rest of the sequence would be in the 16-19 range. If not I would just play it as...

No, dude, you're missing the point. That goes 12-16-19 all the way up and down the strings. It's a finger stretching exercise. Of COURSE it can be played in an easier fashion, but then it wouldn't be a very good exercise now would it?

If your purposely playing it like that for exercise, for all means do it that way. I explained when I would play it as such, and when I wouldn't. I would try to find the easiest and most comfortable way to play it, at least for me. After all you'll play it better if it's easier.

|12--14--15---17 is the only 4 note per string scale fragment that is possible to play because of the limits of the human hand right? (that riff anywhere on the fretboard of course). I mean, say you play that riff, where is it going to lead to because my hand isn't capable of playing any other 4 notes scale fragment naturally. .... Stretch your hand out between 6 frets and your fingers are naturally going to fall on those frets (12,14,15,17 if you start on 12). Any other finger position isn't right.

...I guess once I get done that 4 note per string riff I've got to move onto 3 note per sting riffs because no other 4 note per string riff is possible or works in the same minor scale.

Actually, if I move that up a string it works but I'm playing the same note twice. Does anybody actually do this G.D. 4 note per string crap?

Disregard that comment, I'm so far behind.

12-14-15-17. The farthest a pinky should stretch is to the 16th. The 17 you could drop down to the next highest string, which is 12 (except the b string). The one time you can do this is if the 12-14-15-17 was on the high e string. There is no string for you to drop the 17 down to, so you must play it. One way is to slide the index finger from 12 to 14, 15 with the middle, and 17 with the pinky. This the one you should use the most. Here's an example of a sequence where you might want to stretch the pinky.


i m r m i 1 m r p r i m r m i i i
e:-12h14h15p14p12-12h14h15h17p15-12h14h15p14p12-11-12--


Here's another example of where you might want to stretch again. The melodic minor scale. (use only when playing above the 12th fret)


i r p i r p i i r p
-------------------13-14-16-17---
----------12-14-16---------------
-12-14-15------------------------


Below the 12th fret, melodic minor as a 4 note per scale.


i i m p i i m p
----------------------
-----------7-9-11-12--
--5-7-8-10------------


As you can see it's the same pattern, very easy to play.

4 note per string scales are great for climbing up the fret board. I'm sure you've seen hundred of guys doing solos climbing up the fretboard. This the the way.

Otherwise you should look for a 3 note per string pattern. Especially for little licks, there's no need to drag you hand up and down the fret board or do any unneccessary stretching.

Hope that helps.

Thanks man, I'm going to have a look at that tomorrow morning. Homework and a Leafs game tonight eh.

Alright, so you recommend sliding the index finger around instead of stretching the hand out to do every note on the string. That would be pratical advice to a beginner or one with small hands, but I'm more than comfortable stretching between the 5th fret and the 10th.

for example:

|
|
|
|----------------------------8
|--------------7--10--12--
|--5--8--10

(I,R,P for each run)

I was under the impression that a 4 note per string riff entails a different finger for every note - in which case only the 5--7--8--10 pattern is possible because of the inability to stretch between the M and R fingers. I don't think I'm going to use the slide technique you've shown only becuase I foresee sloppiness. You can't slide your arm up as fast as you can put a single finger down on the fretboard. There's so many patterns available for a single scale that if one poses a limitation in the riff you want to play, you just switch to another.

Well all I can say is do what your comfortable with, like I said in the beginning. I recommend other things before trying to extend my pinky out because it slows me down. My way to play your example would be...

[u]Your example[/u]

|
|
|
|----------------------------8
|--------------7--10--12--
|--5--8--10

[u]How I would play it[/u]


e-----------------------
b-----------------------
g-----------------------
d--------------5--7--8--
a--------5--7-----------
e--5--8-----------------
i p i r i r p


Drop the 10th down a string. To me there is no clear reason to stretch for the 10th fret. But if you feel you need to and your comfortable with it by all means do it.

4 note per string scales have a tendency to climb the fretboard, as you can see from the previous example. Sliding shouldn't slow you down, and actually your gonna want to get used to it if you want to solo in the near future. It will play a HUGE part in solo technique, especially in metal and blues solos. You'll see this alot [tab]---/12-etc.[tab]. Here you slide quickly up to the 12th fret before beginning the lick afterwards (Jimi's solo's are filled with them). You'll see this too [tab]-5/7-etc.[tab]. I remember learning a metallica solo a while back, where one slide was a 32nd note and the rest of the lick was in 16th's, so the slide had to be twice as fast as the lick. If your sliding is sloppy, start practicing it cause you'll need it. Just letting you know ahead of time. ;)

I'm pretty tired so I hope this makes sense. I'd stretch my hand out to go outside the pent. box so I could play it like a 3note per string scale fragment (shred it, whatever). When you're playing 2 notes per string your pick gets all tied up and such. oh but if I were playing 2 note per string riffs like in the pent. box i'd be doing hammerons instead of single picking so it doesn't really matter anyway.. unless you're j. page.

it's just two different ways of going about the same thing, to each his/her own and i appreciate your insight. i'm all about single-pick speed right now, that's why i was wondering about playing as many notes on each string before moving on. new style.

Cool. :) I'm not trying to change your way of playing or anything, just so were clear on that. If your having problems with your pick getting tied up when doing (2 note a string) pentatonics, that's a problem in your technique and I suggest working on correcting that. Hammer-ons (produce a different sound too) will get you through it, but remedying that problem will in turn make your picking hand more proficient. And the more proficient your picking hand is, the better and faster you can become.

Speed comes easier when you have good dexterity, so build your dexterity first. You don't want to be a guy a few years down the road saying, "I've been playing for 3 years and I can't seem to get any faster on my playing, and if I try it's always sloppy". Then they get a huge let down because everyone tells them to go back to playing at a really slow tempo. This is because their dexterity sucks in comparison to there quickness. I'm not saying re-think your playing, but don't throw a problem to the side because there's a shortcut. You'll regret it.

If you think 2 note per string scale runs are a pain, wait til you start doing string skipping. ;) It only gets harder brah, learn the basics first then everything will go alot smoother.

Hey man, thanks for the advice. It's sound. I think you're under the impression that I'm just starting out. I've been playing guitar for 10 years, playing everything except for this 80's style shred stuff which I am currently trying to master in the fastest time possible. I consider myself a guitar god capable of doing anything - it's just that I've never bothered with the pinky before. While we're on this ego trip I'll have you know that I've got my gr 8 piano, 5 years of pvt. violin instruction, 11 years of jazz bass playing under my belt and have dived into tuba playing and harmonica. This is all irrelevant .. I'm not saying I don't a helping hand (far from it) and it's totally appreciated. Just to let you know where I stand.

Last night I stuck my finger in a pop can and sliced my index finger on my left hand right where I make contact with the strings, haha. I'll be out of it for a couple days.

My apologies then. :) I did get the impression that you were starting out. As your starting to work on shred, you should definitely remedy your "tied picking hand". You'll need it cause not every pent run is hammer-ons and pull-offs. Recognize that picking each note creates a different sound, or feel from legato. Mastering will take both. With your experience it shouldn't take you but alittle practice to "untie" it, well after you heal.

I've cut my finger on pop cans several times. I have the same habit but I usually cut myself when I rip the tab off. Them bastards hurt too. 'lol'