Am I Insane


srvpersonal
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srvpersonal
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02/01/2022 10:05 pm

Your probabl aware of this definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Well I spent all this afternoon (on and off) trying to learn a new picking pattern for the song; when you say nothing at all. By Ronan Keaton. At time I felt like I was going insane because I kept making the same mistake over and over, mostly because I would lose my place in the song. Does anyone esle have this problem and how do you fix it?

Much appreciated Stephen


# 1
William MG
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William MG
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02/01/2022 10:07 pm

Sounds pretty normal. Keep practicing!


This year the diet is definitely gonna stick!

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DraconusJLM
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DraconusJLM
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02/02/2022 10:22 am

Target the area where you keep making the mistake. Slow down and just play a short section (a couple of bars) before where the mistake happens and then a short bit after.

Do this at whatever speed you can manage without making mistakes, then build up to the right tempo.

Then try playing the entire song.

The route to insanity is repeatedly playing all the way through a piece, reaching where mistakes happen, making the mistakes, then playing on to the end. This wastes time and achieves little


I wish this forum had a "block user" feature. Possibly I'm not the only one......

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William MG
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02/02/2022 3:17 pm
Originally Posted by: DraconusJLM

Target the area where you keep making the mistake. Slow down and just play a short section (a couple of bars) before where the mistake happens and then a short bit after.

Do this at whatever speed you can manage without making mistakes, then build up to the right tempo.

Then try playing the entire song.

The route to insanity is repeatedly playing all the way through a piece, reaching where mistakes happen, making the mistakes, then playing on to the end. This wastes time and achieves little

I agree and disagree with this. I agree taking a section and working on it is important, but for me, I have to make the mistakes and continue through the piece if it is going to come together. And it does, as long as I keep practicing. Case in point is any song with a b minor barr chord. But what I read into what Stephen is saying is that he is new to this and getting overwhelmed and lost in the material he is trying to learn and that is when things go sideways, which from my experience is completely normal and works itself out with continued practice.


This year the diet is definitely gonna stick!

# 4
snojones
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02/02/2022 4:58 pm

I love the irony of practicing expecting a diffrent result (I got a good chuckle out of this observation, and am a little surprised how long it took for someone to notice this glaring warning) ...

and we wonder why more people don't play guitar. It must be mental health that causes all the problems. ;-)


Captcha is a total pain in the........

# 5
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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02/02/2022 6:28 pm
Originally Posted by: srvpersonal

Your probabl aware of this definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Well I spent all this afternoon (on and off) trying to learn a new picking pattern for the song; when you say nothing at all. By Ronan Keaton. At time I felt like I was going insane because I kept making the same mistake over and over, mostly because I would lose my place in the song. Does anyone esle have this problem and how do you fix it?

Much appreciated Stephen

So, you're insane. What about the guitar playing though? )[br][br]It does happen to any of us and not anything different than others are saying but isolate that part and drill on it. I've been playing (noodling) Led Zep Black Dog since 1982 and to be honest, because I never drilled it with a metronome or even really played along with the record, I don't actually play it in proper time. Still today. Why? I never bothered to correct it. I mean, I only ever noodle it once in a while for fun so I'm not worried about it and otherwise, my rhythm is pretty darned solid. Don't be like Jeff with Black Dog.

The point is, it's the hard(er) work of drilling a specific thing is where you need to focus. For that matter, you'd mentioned that you get a little lost. To me, it means that you may want to break down different riffs or song sections (ie - verse or bridge etc) and be comfortable with that riff in that section. Then you can click them song Lego blocks together when you practice the song.

Good luck and keep going!


# 6
wildorchid.5
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wildorchid.5
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04/12/2022 1:58 pm

Thank you for sharing the story. You're not crazy, that's for sure. Simply in constant repetitions, mistakes and small progress and is the essence of learning. I once tried to enter a foreign university. I read an article about scholarships and study abroad at https://studyhippo.com/essay-examples/study-abroad-scholarship/ When I joined, I made the same mistake for several years in a row until I reached my goal.


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aliasmaximus
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04/12/2022 3:04 pm
Originally Posted by: JeffS65

...To me, it means that you may want to break down different riffs or song sections (ie - verse or bridge etc) and be comfortable with that riff in that section. Then you can click them song Lego blocks together when you practice the song.

I've tried this technique over and over again with different material but always end up with a bunch of pieces that I cannot snap together because my brain has become habituated to stopping at the end of each section. While this may not be a universal problem, it's still quite common. It makes more sense (for most people) to learn something by continuously adding Lego bloacks to a growing string of music that you've mastered.

BTW, I wouldn't put much stock in the definition of "insanity" stated by the OP, given that it seems to have originated in an Xbox 360 video game: Far Cry 3. It was uttered by the craziest character (Vos Montenegro) in a whole game full of raving lunatics. If doing something over and over while expecting a different result is the definiton of "insanity", then every guitar player in here would be insane. Then again, maybe we are ; )

Nicolai


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john of MT
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04/12/2022 6:26 pm

The insanity quote was/is often attributed to Albert Einstein but there has yet to be any evidence to support that. There is a site, Quote Investigator, that finds the "insanity" definition as far back as 1981.


"It takes a lot of devotion and work, or maybe I should say play, because if you love it, that's what it amounts to. I haven't found any shortcuts, and I've been looking for a long time."
-- Chet Atkins
# 9
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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04/12/2022 7:26 pm
Originally Posted by: aliasmaximus

I've tried this technique over and over again with different material but always end up with a bunch of pieces that I cannot snap together because my brain has become habituated to stopping at the end of each section. While this may not be a universal problem, it's still quite common. It makes more sense (for most people) to learn something by continuously adding Lego bloacks to a growing string of music that you've mastered.

Fair point, that.

We do all have different ways our brains are wired. Some can work with broken down bits and others have to be able to play the broader song in order for it to click.

I do think that if there is a single riff or bit that messes up every time, you do gotta kinda drill that one on its own.

I've been learning some Steely Dan lately (because I like funky chords? ...well, I've always liked Steely Dan even in my metal years) and there are a million little things in a Steely Dan song that will trip you up and learning 'in context' for most songs is near impossible. With that said, I'd been learning the song 'Josie'. It's not a terribly difficult song by Steely Dan standards but in the intro section there is a descending section that should be very hard but trips me up like there's no tomorrow. It not a hard little run!! But, it messes me up. So, I gotta drill.

I mention this because in many ways, I'm more like you. I get the riffs together and play through the song as my method of learning and improving. Keeping in mind that I've been playing a long time and most stuff comes easily enough to allow me to learn by playing along, but I still need to get the bits down even if just a couple of run throughs of a lick and build it in to a song.


# 10
aliasmaximus
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aliasmaximus
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04/13/2022 4:12 am
Originally Posted by: john of MT

The insanity quote was/is often attributed to Albert Einstein but there has yet to be any evidence to support that. There is a site, Quote Investigator, that finds the "insanity" definition as far back as 1981.

Good to know. Thanks john. What would really be insane is if we started defining our world in reference to violent video games. So, it's actually a relief to know that. And thanks for the tip about Quote Investigaor. Very neat tool.

In any case, I still think it's a stupid quote, Einstein or no Einstein. Trying repeatedly in the face of mounting failures is perhaps [u]the[/u] quintessential defining characteristic of what it is to be human, and likely one of the main reason why our race has evolved to dominate every other species on earth..... for better or for worse.

And thanks for the feedback JeffS. It only makes sense that a very experienced musician is going to use their Lego blocks differently from a beginner. Actually, you know what would really be insane? If we all started defining our world in reference to Lego blocks ; )

Nicolai


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brencross212
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04/13/2022 9:25 pm

I often have to trick my brain when I am learning a new song, especially when it is a finger picking song. Like for example Landslide,.the song in my head is at Lindsey Buckingham speed, and my fingers just are not at that speed so I trip up. So I just practice the picking pattern over different chords or just muted strings until I have it down. Then I put in over the actual chords.


# 12
Rumble Walrus
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04/18/2022 12:20 am

Here's a thought just for now -

When you hit that one section that you keep messing up, make up something to fill in the spot. Perhaps just a chord tone of the chord in play at the time. The main thing is to finish the phrase.

Chances are that once you fill in that spot, you'll be able to play the entire phrase. Once you can play the entire phrase, you can go back in and work on that one section.

I'm betting though, that what you personally put in to fill the spot will be just fine - perhaps better.

Really.


# 13
W3
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W3
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05/16/2022 11:13 am

I get where you're coming from! For me, it was learning the intro/driving rythm run for ZZ Top's Just Got Paid. I learned it as muscle memory as it was an up/down picking pattern that I could not get! Yeah, frustrating insanity because I was doing the same mistakes over and over. I finally got it! Now it's second nature muscle memory. You'll get it, believe me!!


# 14
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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05/17/2022 8:44 pm
Originally Posted by: W3

I get where you're coming from! For me, it was learning the intro/driving rythm run for ZZ Top's Just Got Paid. I learned it as muscle memory as it was an up/down picking pattern that I could not get! Yeah, frustrating insanity because I was doing the same mistakes over and over. I finally got it! Now it's second nature muscle memory. You'll get it, believe me!!

Just Got Paid is, in itself, not a super hard song. It's all about timing for that one. Falling in to that looping groove. Cuz for Reverend Billy, it's all about that groove. In another thread, I mentioned learning some Steely Dan recently. Along with that I was like, I listened to Fandango a million times since the 70's, I'm learning 'Balinese' and 'Heard it on the X'. Very different grooves for those. But fun!


# 15

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