Do we need pain to be creative?

I imagine this has ever come up in this forum.But then again,I was going through some older threads and saw names that I don't see lately.So maybe those of us who are presently active wold like to talk about it.
The idea that pain,trauma makes us function as musicians.
I've read somewhere that Tchaikovsy was gay at a time when society was not so liberal,and he expressed the pain he went through by hiding his lifestyle through his music.Even today in some societies,like mine,you're not gonna be openly gay and live a normal life.Not here.
I also read that Beethoven's father used to beat him so bad,it's how he became deaf(or was it Morzart?one of the two.pardon my lack of historical whatever).And he too escaped his reality throuhg music.
Very often,and even on this forum,people who are musicians one way or another mention being bullied,teased,whatever in thier childhoods.I wonder if it's a mere coincidence or there's more to it.I also went through both,but I'm right now I'm so f***ing cool,Whirlpool should use me as acontrol experiment when they test their fridges.:)
And look at all the artists who've commited suicide,become commited into institutions and stuff.
It's also been said that musicians are normally extra creative after break ups and things like that.
Are we such a bunch of pitiful souls or what?Do we need to be hurt to be good at what we do?
On a statistical level,would bying your kids,say,a guitar and then beating the hell out of them make musicians.
These thoughts disturb me.
Really disturb me.

yeah i believe it's pain who makes us what we are
also i believe that it's not only for musicians
the need to write book/song/music/anything rises after pain of any kind settles down and goes out
it's a way to express your feelings very sharply
for example one songwriter was asked how he writes so strong lyrics than he wrote a song about his hardships banging his heart like a hammer that produces a song...

and the fact that there is so many arts shows you in what kindda world ya live in...

Hmm, I think music is an expression of feelings, and those can be all kinds of feelings. Love, hate, pain, anger, joy, etc... So, I don't think it's only pain that drives people to make music.
Though I have to agree, my creativity reaches peaks everytime I go through something ****ty. Maybe it's cause I have been happy lately that I haven't been writing anything, hehe.

Just a thought but when I'm happy I don't want to talk about it, I want to LIVE. You know, get out there, do something.

On the other hand, when I'm hurting I get in a corner and think. I don't want to go out, I want to stay in. I think thinking makes creativity appears. I want to make the hurt stop so I try to let it go. When you create a song, you feel it's good, you're a little happier. It may take part of the hurt away. So the more you create, the less hurt you have therefore the better you feel.

When you're happy you don't stop to think, to create, you're too busy living your life.

Anyway, just a thought. Good thread by the way.

This is the old cliche, where you have to have lived a hard life, mentally or physically, to sing the blues... Overall, I think we all find our own methods for ceativity, and just about anything can set off our inspiration. Personally, I'm inspired by people, just certain facial expressions, certain subtle gestures here and there. When writing music, I think what truly matters is if we can find peace at the end of the day, without it we're always second guessing ourselves. Our best creations come from those impulsive moments, when we just follow a thought through, without any regrets, just simply trusting ourselves. And our moods vary, but what matters is if we're willing to just let our creations be what they will be.

We always try to fight the current, in life, love and everything else in between. But music is a very natural experience, and we shouldn't treat it any other way.

-Joseph :cool:

Has anyone ever noticed that the most deep and meaningful songs have something to do with sadness. Smashing Pumpkins wrote some great songs IMHO and the Beatle's Eleanor Rigby, oh that song is incredible. I hardly ever hear a truly great song about happiness. Happy tunes tend to be more toward the pop side of things. MTV happy tunes, you know and they sound so fake. Is it really that hard to wrote something genuine that is about happiness?

Originally posted by Joseph
This is the old cliche, where you have to have lived a hard life, mentally or physically, to sing the blues...

It's acliche aaight.
Listen to rap?
All rappers gru up in the projects.
All of them.:D
Tsk.

There are some great songs about being happy:

Happy by travis,

Cherub Rock or Today by the smashing pumpkins (if you listen to them carefully, they're possibly the most happy songs you'll hear)

I'm so happy you failed by Laptop (well it is happy ;))

8 ball or Bucoup Fish by underworld

Pure or marvelous by Lightning seeds.

most of the beach boys stuff.

god there's loads... that just scanning through the first file of mp3 collection..

About pain.... I dont know, when ever I'm down, I stop being creative... I dont know why, I lose the drive to write... but being happy seems to make me more patient and willing to sit down and work with something till 4am... hehe..
Playing with other poeple is great for ideas, becuase I play mostly on my own, and jam along to tracks i've made, working with someone with a completely different style really get the ideas flowing...
Being a musicain is kinda of alot like being an actor, you've gotta convey emotion, but you dont have to necicerly be expereincing it your self, and all the matter is what you put across... "stop whispering" by radiohead is a fantastic sad song, about the hurt of being left... but it never happened to tom york, he just kinda put him self in a hypothetical position and wondered how he'd react...

That's what Bono said about making their last album, that it's easy to sing about being upset; it's very hard to express joy and be sincere. Of course, that album sounds like it's happy and then the more you listen to it the bleaker it sounds, so they weren't very succesful at it either. I guess because people don't want to think about why they are happy as much as they do when they are sad.

Originally posted by educatedfilm
Being a musicain is kinda of alot like being an actor, you've gotta convey emotion, but you dont have to necicerly be expereincing it your self, and all the matter is what you put across... "stop whispering" by radiohead is a fantastic sad song, about the hurt of being left... but it never happened to tom york, he just kinda put him self in a hypothetical position and wondered how he'd react...

That's true.
When I was about 12 yrs old,we had a play in church school(church service specially for children) where I was in a situation where I lost my parents and siblings and it was sad then God comes to my rescue blah blah blah.....
During the rehearsals,I never shed a tear,just wore a sad face.But when we went for the actual competition,I shed real tears on stage.It surprised even me.It shocked the hell out of my co-actors&actresses,made them get really into their roles,and we won.I was best actor for the competition.When we went back,continueing with rehearsals for the next level of competition,you guessed it,I never shed a drop.But come competition time,boohoo!!But the play was disqualified somewhere by a judge who felt that instead of adopting the bible theme into a modern day setting,we shold have acted like the bible was the script,you know,men in robes and long beards,that sort of thing.But in all the stages we got to,people in the audiences felt my plight.Some cried as well.
What I'm saying is that putting yourself in some imaginary,but plausible ,situation and then testing how you'd react can really help your songwriting.I shed tears like a kid who'd really lost his family,just by thinking about it.The story has a sad ending though:four years later,my moms,who was single,passed away for real.I don't think I can now act in a role where I lose my mother.Considering how I can immerse myself into a role,it could keep coming back and generally messing me up and stuff.

I'm sorry to hear that...
I'm glad you understand my point.

i'm sorry to hear that too
i lost some friends of mine not long ago (in quite a nasty way to lose'em...) a suicide bomber (you all know about whats going on in israel) blew up my favorite cafe 15 minutes after i left... unfortunately my friends didnt left...
anyway i still think that what brought you into music was some sort of pain and that you dont have to be sad to be creative you just have to feel it for sometime before
it has to settle down in you and that sometimes takes time...
not everybody who sais he's happy is really heppy
"i'm so heppy 'cause today i found my friends..."

Thanx.
I'm cool.Life goes on,you know.
And all those faces and names you see in orbituaries and all that,they're someone's someone.It's the way life is.
I think I've said this before somewhere on this forum,but can't remember where.Anyway,talking about happiness,IMO,requires that the person you're telling is willing to hear you,will be glad that you're happy,basically a friend.And things will be ok for them too,otherwise talking about your new girlfriend to a guy who just broke up with theirs won't jell.But when you're hurt or angry,whatever,your mind set chsnges.If somebody wronged/hurt/robbed you(and I'm not talking about thieves),you want them to know what they did.And you don't care whether they like it or not.You're not asking if they like it,you're giving it to them,whatever they want notwithstanding.You don't hold back.And when you don't hold back,that's when what's in you really comes out.I think that's why those really deep songs are often good.And think about it,how deep can happy get?Parents don't jump up and down when their kids get married;they cry!I think it's the way we're made.
*shrug*