Where to Draw the Line?

After reading a few show reviews, and thinking back to standing outside The Asylum in Portland, ME the issue of violent shows has been mulling in my mind. Now I think everybody who's into music and is in the New England area of the US can related directly to FSU, and I know there are other similar groups out there. We're talking about groups of people who organize, go to shows, and fight. We're not talking moshing here, we're talking two people pinning somebody else down while three people kick them.

So where do you all feel the band fits in here? Intervention? Keep playing? Side with one of these gangs? I've seen and heard of examples of all three. Hell, JP the drummer from Clutch actually jumped off stage to break one of these fights up a few years ago at The Middle East in Cambridge, MA. In that instant, a few FSU pukes with a hammer were mauling some hapless bastard up front.

Let the discussion flow: How responsible are we?

[Edited by Raskolnikov on 01-04-2002 at 07:39 PM]

Carlos SANTANA, before he was on the MTV, came to my town and played a great show... In the middle of 'Europa', two guys started fighting. He stopped the music, and talked to the two guys. He told them either to get out, in this case he would reimburse them, or stay but stay in peace... Well, it worked.

Music exists to bring peace to this world and celebrate, if people use it in another way, or understand it in another way, they are wrong...

Face it, there's going to be assholes at every show. What show lacks at least one?

Being in an active punk band, I have seen my fair share of B.S. at shows the past few years. There was this one incident I'd like to share.
A few months back I happened to be in Thursday's(emo band) raging pit. Two large men were grabbing one of my friends and taking turns throwing her and kicking her. These two idiots were doing this for quite some time. Not too many in the crowd were noticing, the show was pretty intense. The band had a very clear view, they ignored the situation completely.

I let go to instinct and a I pushed one of the guys. I started screaming at him asking him why he was hitting girls. He told me "You're a pussy defending broads." and he threw me into his buddy. I threw up an orange bandana to signal the club owner. Just as I did this I got hit right in the face and blacked out momentarily. Next thing I know we're outside, and the club owner is kicking their asses. Thank god I'm good friends with him. Thank god he saw the bandana.

Moral of the story?
Nobody at that show gave a **** that these huge dudes were punching girls around and sent one to the hospital. Everyone was talking about it at the show, yet when it was going down, they just let it happen. All respect I had for emo quickly dissolved. End of story.

Well, that's pretty sad to see idiots come to shows to get drunk or kick or punch... They destroy humanity's best thing...

I never got the whole idea of this music and violence thing. I remember one time going to see Primus, it was my ist time seeing them and was pretty excited. I spent the 1st half of the show dodging stage divers and slam dancers.For the second half of the show I had to move back so far away to get away from the violence I could hardly see the band. The whole experience sucked, know one was really there for the band, they all just wanted hit each other and grope the girls. I grew up going to Grateful Dead concerts so I don't really understand the whole attraction to this thing.

sometimes, energy can be displayed at shows, I think it's a whole part of the show... But when that energy gets on the dark side, it is the worst thing...

Originally posted by chris mood
I never got the whole idea of this music and violence thing. I remember one time going to see Primus, it was my ist time seeing them and was pretty excited. I spent the 1st half of the show dodging stage divers and slam dancers.For the second half of the show I had to move back so far away to get away from the violence I could hardly see the band. The whole experience sucked, know one was really there for the band, they all just wanted hit each other and grope the girls. I grew up going to Grateful Dead concerts so I don't really understand the whole attraction to this thing.

i envy you buddy. i wish i could grow up going to grateful dead concerts. unfortunately my time was a little late...i was 7 when Jerry died...and my parents are straight blue collar type, so even if i wanted to go they wouldnt let me.
i've never heard of primus, what do they play?

Originally posted by chris mood
I never got the whole idea of this music and violence thing. I remember one time going to see Primus, it was my ist time seeing them and was pretty excited. I spent the 1st half of the show dodging stage divers and slam dancers.For the second half of the show I had to move back so far away to get away from the violence I could hardly see the band. The whole experience sucked, know one was really there for the band, they all just wanted hit each other and grope the girls. I grew up going to Grateful Dead concerts so I don't really understand the whole attraction to this thing.

Funny, though most of the Primus shows I've seen have had near 100% moshing, it's been a very amicable kind of mosh... very "friendly." Of course, there are always a couple of ham heads - but they get put in there place sooner or later. If only I could relate what Les said to some kid who hit him in the head with a crushed can one time I saw them... however the board would edit half of my post... but let me assure you that I still laugh about what he said to that little puke today.

Incidents: Primus.... www.primussucks.com You really aught to check those guys out. They're kinda heavy, yet very jammy. Go to the bootleg barn and download some live tracks, and give them a few listens; Primus takes some getting used to more often than not. I have a 14 minute version of Tommy the Cat from one of the shows up there that's completely insane. Two or three guitarists sat in on that one song, and as Les (bassist extraordinare) put it at the end: "Guitarists, can't live with them... can't shoot them legally."

There's also some Col. Les Claypool's Fearless Flying Frog Brigade stuff up too, it's less heavy, more jammy, definately worth checking out.

On a side not: That same Clutch show that had all of those FSU morons also had a guy who must have been 6'7" tall, and about as buff as they come. This guy was HUGE, and he pretty much let everybody toss him around, he didn't get rough, and if anybody fell down, he was the first to help them up or hold back the pit so they wouldn't get stepped on. So yeah, there's always atleast one asshole, but there's always somebody who exibits what true pitting is all about.

yeah...nothing like a good ole Grateful Dead show. On a good night there would be this huge positive vibe happening between the crowd and the band. It's hard to describe, but it was like nothing I've ever experienced since.

What moron would ever hit a woman for one.???? (makes me sick)

Enthusiasm and Energy created by music is the reason most of us learn to play. If the audience sat in their seats, never moved, never made a sound it wouldn't really be a rush.
Even for a small room or a campfire player, you still look to see the reactions or reciprocations of those around you.

We play music, those that hear it interpret it in their own way. If we play aggressive, they may be agressive, but, I'd shut it down if they started beating each other.

All the best!!!!!! :cool: