The Disception of Metal

Originally Posted by: BLS33Dude you need to stop reading guitar mags because they dont know anything about metal. You just named off some of the most over rated bands (Metallica Slipknot Trivium and Dragonforce). The guys in trivium cant even read sheet music and pretty much just copy metallica and pantera in all there songs, Metallica hasnt made a good album in a few thousand years, dragonforce cant play there crap live to save there lives and slipknot just sucks.

i dunno if i agree with you. ok. the coment trivium cant read sheat music. i would like to say reading music is a tool to writing good songs but it is not the only path. if you have a good educated ear, eg you can recognise intervals and such like wat need is there to write it down. i dont feel they rip of metalica and panterra, thats not to say they werent influenced by them but hey. and even if they did rip them off, good music doesnt have to be origonal. it has to be good.

metalicas recent albums were pretty bad, but that doesnt mean there old stuff wasnt good.

dragonforce may not be able to pull everythin off on stage but that doesnt make the music they wrote bad.

and slipnot... well i agree with you there they are sh#t :D


no offense meant with any of this i dont want to get into a slaggin match.

i do try and respect all genres of music, although i find rap and comercialpop hard to stomache.

for insatnce recently i made friends who was into classical music. which wasnt really my thing. but after listenin to some of it i began to apreciate it. some i feel is just boarin and is made for the uneducated listener to listen to but you also get some really interestin and strange pieces that are really good.

lastly i find many guitarests find it hard to apreciate music not played on there instrument. wich is natural in a way because we dont know how skillfull it is. but we really shouldnt think like that. i know i am a culprit of this as much as any but i am tryin to change :o .

ps i agree with the coment music doesnt have to be technically or harmonically complecated to be good.

How does konwing how to read sheet music effect the way someone can play and write songs. If I took a music class to refresh my memory on how to read it, it wouldn't make be a better player or write better riffs.

I like Slipknot, I think they play heavy **** that sounds great, but even a lot of their fans don't like them anymore because 10 year old kids wearing their hoodies ruined it for everyone. But SLipknot is like The BLue Man Group meets Throwdown, and I love it.

With Dragonforce, they're ok. Theres a few songs I like by them,and its mostly becuase of their singer. He's got a pretty good voice and it fits the music well. But a lot of people think the guitarists are blazing fast but a lot of their work is peppered with their keyboardist playing blazing fast (which I think they have him play too loud.)

But if theres one thing I hate, its a band that can't play live. Listen to a cd and going to see a band live it 2 totally different experiences. When they play like garbage or the setup sounds horrible, it ruins the show and I become completly unintrested. Last time that happened to me was at a Korn Deftones show, Deftones had a horrible setup and I sat in my seat for most of their set, the Korn came on and rocked the place.

lynyrd skynyrd had a rule..."if you can't play it live don't record it!"

Originally Posted by: elklandercc
Last time that happened to me was at a Korn Deftones show, Deftones had a horrible setup and I sat in my seat for most of their set, the Korn came on and rocked the place.

I think everyone hates going to see a show and having their favorite band sound like trash... But a lot of times with large world wide tours that play a show every other day the opening acts get the shaft when it comes to time for soundcheck and time for setting up gear... That's why most opening acts SOUND bad... that doesn't mean that they're not PLAYING good. I hate it when you go to a concert and the guitarist can't even play the solo right so he just skips it by adding some lame feedback solo or something.. or when the vocalist can't carry a tune... or when he can't hit a key change because he doesn't have the luxury of attempting it 5 thousnad times in the studio... I've been to very few shows where the opening act actually sounded good... And one time it was No Address and they literally did their soundcheck right before they started their first song... It was like 5 minutes of a guy screaming different pitches and shouting into the mic... Then all the sudden they rock the house. They were the first band to come on stage of a 5 band show.

I agree with that Skynyrd quote... Studio music is all good.... A lot of times studio albums make bands sound a lot better than they really are. It's easy to nail a solo when you have almost infinite amounts of time to try and try again...

Originally Posted by: aschlemanI think everyone hates going to see a show and having their favorite band sound like trash...

I whole heartedly agree with that statement! THe first time I seen Megadeth in concert that frigging rocked. Then the last time I seen them I was so dissapointed I almost left the concert early. Same thing with Motley Crue. I have seen them twice in Atlanta in the last 8 years ( I think 8 years) The first time Vince looked like he had just ate a moose he was so fat. And both times he ws so winded that some of the lyrics he would just skip! I was really dissapointed with them both times. I swear he could have used an oxygen bottle!

And I do not agree about the reading of music makes the band either. I kinda doubt that most guitarist starting off in the top bands of today knew how to read music at first. Hell Nicki Sixx admited that when he first started he used a guitar as a bass!! That he didnt know the difference. I think he said this in that book they put out 'The Dirt'.

[QUOTE=halo71] Hell Nicki Sixx admited that when he first started he used a guitar as a bass!! That he didnt know the difference.[QUOTE]
z0s0 bites tongue

Originally Posted by: halo71 Hell Nicki Sixx admited that when he first started he used a guitar as a bass!! That he didnt know the difference. I think he said this in that book they put out 'The Dirt'.

z0s0 bites tongue

lol....Well I must say that I have never been a big fan of them. I only went to see them because my ex-wife likes them so much. Although I must admit I kinda did like Too Fast For Love! :eek:

Originally Posted by: aschlemanI think everyone hates going to see a show and having their favorite band sound like trash... But a lot of times with large world wide tours that play a show every other day the opening acts get the shaft when it comes to time for soundcheck and time for setting up gear... That's why most opening acts SOUND bad... that doesn't mean that they're not PLAYING good. I hate it when you go to a concert and the guitarist can't even play the solo right so he just skips it by adding some lame feedback solo or something.. or when the vocalist can't carry a tune... or when he can't hit a key change because he doesn't have the luxury of attempting it 5 thousnad times in the studio... I've been to very few shows where the opening act actually sounded good... And one time it was No Address and they literally did their soundcheck right before they started their first song... It was like 5 minutes of a guy screaming different pitches and shouting into the mic... Then all the sudden they rock the house. They were the first band to come on stage of a 5 band show.

I agree with that Skynyrd quote... Studio music is all good.... A lot of times studio albums make bands sound a lot better than they really are. It's easy to nail a solo when you have almost infinite amounts of time to try and try again...

They didn't open, I think like 7 other bands played before them including 10 Years and Stone Sour. They played right before Korn and were headlining the tour along wih Korn. But even then, it wasn't just the setup, the singer can't or couldn't scream well at all. He kept doing these high pitched screams which sounded like he was inhaleing instead of exhaleing. He sounds great on the record, but just can't cut it live. I saw JAck White play live on the music awards a few years ago and he sounded like crap too, and it was 7 Nation Army!

Originally Posted by: grizzlymint
I talk with these real extreme metal heads...

About the only bands I've heard them express love for are Killswitch Engage, Unearth, and Dragonforce. Who all are of course metal or metalcore.

You're absolutely right. Anybody who considers Killswitch Engage, Unearth and/or Dragonforce to be "extreme metal" and shuns bands like Black Sabbath and Megadeth, has either never listened to the latter bands or their like, or thinks (as others have mentioned) that metal is concerned purely with image rather than actual music.

Killswitch Engage and Unearth for example, seem to have a songwriting process consisting of using ridiculously aggressive drumming, chuggy, repetitive Drop-C chord progressions and vocals that sound as if the singer's genitalia are caught in a vice, to disguise lyrical themes that would be right at home on a Fall Out Boy song. Dragonforce do something similar, simply cooking up some poorly-written fantasy gibberish, adding blast-beats, shrill vocals and tons of guitar solos, and stirring.

Bands like Megadeth and Black Sabbath, by contrast, write informed and evocative( and gramatically correct) lyrics, and convey them with genuinely considered songwriting and impeccable (or at least competent) musicianship. Even somebody with little or no formal understanding of music would be able to tell that the latter is more articulate music than the former, IMO.

Sorry for the rant...

Originally Posted by: jiujitsu_jesusYou're absolutely right. Anybody who considers Killswitch Engage, Unearth and/or Dragonforce to be "extreme metal" and shuns bands like Black Sabbath and Megadeth, has either never listened to the latter bands or their like, or thinks (as others have mentioned) that metal is concerned purely with image rather than actual music.

Killswitch Engage and Unearth for example, seem to have a songwriting process consisting of using ridiculously aggressive drumming, chuggy, repetitive Drop-C chord progressions and vocals that sound as if the singer's genitalia are caught in a vice, to disguise lyrical themes that would be right at home on a Fall Out Boy song. Dragonforce do something similar, simply cooking up some poorly-written fantasy gibberish, adding blast-beats, shrill vocals and tons of guitar solos, and stirring.

Bands like Megadeth and Black Sabbath, by contrast, write informed and evocative( and gramatically correct) lyrics, and convey them with genuinely considered songwriting and impeccable (or at least competent) musicianship. Even somebody with little or no formal understanding of music would be able to tell that the latter is more articulate music than the former, IMO.

Sorry for the rant...

Man.....how right you are!!! I dont understand how the "metal" bands of today are considered metal! Hell, I dont see how they actually make a living at it either. My older brother listens to bands like that where as you say....the singer sounds like he got his beans above his frank! Where the guitars just sound like everything is running together and the drummers sounds like is on crack or something...boom tap, boom tap as fast as he can over and over again.

one word for people like that SHALLOW :(

Originally Posted by: DAMAGED ONEone word for people like that SHALLOW :(

people like what?!?

Originally Posted by: BLS33Dude you need to stop reading guitar mags because they dont know anything about metal. [/QUOTE]

OK maybe I do, I'm just trying to get the more information that I can. I post more an log more into GT than read or buy magazines, I think is the same example... give me info to become a better musician.

[QUOTE=BLS33]slipknot just sucks.

Maybe I wasn't clear... I like slipknot, but I don't think they are like really great musicians (let's face it, the clown and Chris the big nose one don't do much for the music, and the spikehead guy... ha ha ha, I don't have and idea of what he does for the music, he's just hedbanging all the time), but the first time I saw the disasterpirces DVD, I felt the agression, the violence of the show... for me that's what music is all about... making you feel something, that's why I like them.

Maybe I'm wrong but... Phill Collins can't read music sheets... my point is, I know that music education IS the cornerstone, and the tools make things happen, but music doesn't come from writting it down in a perfect score, I't comes from the heart and soul (does that sounded tooo gay or it's just me?).

Originally Posted by: halo71people like what?!?

People that think all other music besides Metal Core or what ever Sucks!!!
Hell some Bluegrass players are faster than all those screammin fast bands
like Dragon Force! Broaden yourself to all types of music, Be more open minded!

I just think if you are a professional musician you should be able to read music. I've heard that SRV couldnt but he was also ungodly talanted which the guys in trivium and slipknot are not. And does phil collins even play an instrument?

And about the magazines, they arent always wrong and are a great source for interviews and lessons and that stuff, but if its one of there writers expressing their opinion it will most likley be retarded. I'm definetly 100% metal head but I probably listen to almost as much Al Di Meola as I do Randy Rhoads :p

Originally Posted by: BLS33And does phil collins even play an instrument?:p

He plays Drums :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by: polanskyMaybe I wasn't clear... I like slipknot, but I don't think they are like really great musicians .

actualy the guitarest is pretty ace i saw him do a few demos for a line 6 spider amp and i thought he was pretty good. but in slipnot they seem to have made there money from bein heavy and as shocking as possible not using the musicall talent they have.

as to sheet music. yes its a very usefull tool to writin good songs, but it doesnt mean thats the only path to good music. i mean maybe they know all the notes on the neck but just dont know which dots represent things. maybe they write all there songs by using therory verbally. i dont know. but i do think that a good muscision is not measured by his ability to read sheet music.

Originally Posted by: BLS33I just think if you are a professional musician you should be able to read music.

If you're a session player, then yeah. If you're playing your own stuff, you don't need to at all. You have to keep in mind we have a different perspective - most of the metal 'fans' think the music is cool, or makes them look 'hard' with their slipknot hoodies...

Alot of us around here are more into music than that, we worry about technique and structure, as well as just making a hell of a noise. There is a difference between being a musician and a guitar player... and another one between a guitar player and someone who stands on stage playing in drop D with one finger.... :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by: DAMAGED ONEPeople that think all other music besides Metal Core or what ever Sucks!!!
Hell some Bluegrass players are faster than all those screammin fast bands
like Dragon Force! Broaden yourself to all types of music, Be more open minded!

Who me?? I like all kinds of music. Except rap that is and some of the hardcore metal I dont like. But other than that I listen to rock jazz, blues, country and metal.

"Does Phil Collins play an instrument?"

Drums, trumpet, bass....I think some of his older solo albums he played ALL of the instruments on!