System Of A Down

Is anyone else eagerly awaiting 'Hypnotize'? I bought 'Mezmerize' over the weekend (I know it's been out for months, but I don't actually get out of my cave that often) and I haven't listened to anything else since...I normally listen to an album once or twice than move on, but I've had this on my Zen and been listening to it non-stop all day in work and at home...

22nd November I'm definately leaving my cave and buying this album...(although I guess I could be lazy and order it from Amazon thinking about it!) :D

I eagerly await nothing but the demise of SOAD. :D

Originally Posted by: WilldridgeIs anyone else eagerly awaiting 'Hypnotize'?

Yes...yes i am...

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonI eagerly await nothing but the demise of SOAD. :D[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing you're not a fan, eh? :p

[QUOTE=Homebrew1709]Yes...yes i am...

I saw these guys live in June, and they seriously rocked...it's going to be a very long month though, isn't it? :(

Originally Posted by: WilldridgeI'm guessing you're not a fan, eh? :p

Haha, yeah, it was so deeply coded in my response. :D ;)

Im still confuised on why people dont like some of the "mainstream" rock bands out, i can understand bands like Trapt and nickleback and all that crap, but System of a down still has melody, good rythms, and good song structure, why is it people dont like them?

Originally Posted by: Cody_Kingbut System of a down still has melody, good rythms, and good song structure

Because not everyone agrees with that (myself included).

Originally Posted by: Cody_KingIm still confuised on why people dont like some of the "mainstream" rock bands out, i can understand bands like Trapt and nickleback and all that crap, but System of a down still has melody, good rythms, and good song structure, why is it people dont like them?

"My poop smells better than yours," is not good songwriting. I like some of the older SOAD, like Toxicity and Aerials, but the new album isn't good. That's my opinion but, I think they can do much better than that.

Originally Posted by: Pantallica1"My poop smells better than yours," is not good songwriting. I like some of the older SOAD, like Toxicity and Aerials, but the new album isn't good. That's my opinion but, I think they can do much better than that.

I can see why you might consider that line "is not good songwriting", but 'Cigaro' is one of their nonsense songs. Could you seriously tell my "Why don't Presidents fight the war/why do they always send the poor" (B.Y.O.B) or "My sweet revenge/Is in the making/it's for the taking" (Revenga) is poor?

I disagree that it's poor songwriting, but it's all a matter of taste - (In my opinion) some songs (whoever the artist) should be delved into and they have a deep meaning; others should simply be taken on face value.

Respect for not going "System suck and that's final" though.

Originally Posted by: WilldridgeI can see why you might consider that line "is not good songwriting", but 'Cigaro' is one of their nonsense songs. Could you seriously tell my "Why don't Presidents fight the war/why do they always send the poor" (B.Y.O.B) or "My sweet revenge/Is in the making/it's for the taking" (Revenga) is poor?

Yes, I can. And I will. When I heard that "Presidents" line, I thought they were joking. when I learned they were actually SERIOUS I lost any and all respect for the moron who writes their trite, ignorant lyrics.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonYes, I can. And I will. When I heard that "Presidents" line, I thought they were joking. when I learned they were actually SERIOUS I lost any and all respect for the moron who writes their trite, ignorant lyrics.

Your opinion is duely noted; disagreed with, but duely noted.

I don't want to get into a flaming match here, (and I don't think we will), the world's big enough for everyone to have their view, I'm just curious why you think of them as 'ignorant lyrics'?

Originally Posted by: WilldridgeYour opinion is duely noted; disagreed with, but duely noted.

I don't want to get into a flaming match here, (and I don't think we will), the world's big enough for everyone to have their view, I'm just curious why you think of them as 'ignorant lyrics'?

Why don't presidents fight the war? Why do they always send the poor?

I'm not sure how this could be misconstrued as good writing, but I'll break it down if I have to.

First of all, the President is commander-in-chief of the military. Were he to fight in the war we'd probably, I'm sorry, definitely, end up with a nation in turmoil. But since they don't mean it literally, let's take a look at how utterly retarded it is figuratively. Why does America take advantage of the plight of the poor by forcing them to join the army and go to fight? Such is the question System of a Down asks. I'm not sure if they've heard the term "volunteer army" but technically the president is sending "the army" not "the poor," and I think the reason why is that it's the army's...what's that word...job. Honestly the first time I heard it, I thought it was supposed to be making fun of generic punk rock. I thought they couldn't seriously write something so trite, generic, and overdone. Turns out I was wrong.

My Sweet revenge is in the making it's for the taking. I don't even understand why you'd choose this line. There's nothing special about it, save the fact that it rhymes. Nothing poetic in these words. Really it's just pretentious garbage that pretends to be high-minded. Clever lyrics are supposed to be clever, not junk. What part of this is clever? My sweet revenge is in the making...it's for the taking? I don't understand how this particular line speaks to you. Yeah, he's gonna make revenge and take revenge and he's worked it into a phrase that has a slightly different meaning. Ok, working puns that moronic and obvious into a line has been done...by Spinal Tap. If System of a Down didn't take themselves seriously, I'd think they were ok. But they do, so they're not. Besides, all the atonal screaming alone is enough to tell you to shy away from their music. Any music that involves that hideous screamo yell can automatically be labeled as "produced by musicians too poor to understand melody and cadence."

First off, their Steal this Album was crap. But they regained theirself with Mezmerize. But a lot of their songs have meanings of the war and how their against it. Like the intro, it talks about a soldier standing there alone as his friends are dying around him. "Why do we always send the poor" is refering to the mass amounts of low class people signing up for the military while congress keeps their sons safe at college. If you check out lyrics you will see tons of stuff. Ex: We're the propagators of all genocide, Burning through the world's resources, then we turn and hide.....The kinda **** thats on your TV!,The kinda **** thats on your TV!,It's on the TV,It's on your TV,Turn off your TV,Can you say brainwashing?......What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?!!!............Stuff like that.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonWhy don't presidents fight the war? Why do they always send the poor?

I'm not sure how this could be misconstrued as good writing, but I'll break it down if I have to.

First of all, the President is commander-in-chief of the military. Were he to fight in the war we'd probably, I'm sorry, definitely, end up with a nation in turmoil. But since they don't mean it literally, let's take a look at how utterly retarded it is figuratively. Why does America take advantage of the plight of the poor by forcing them to join the army and go to fight? Such is the question System of a Down asks. I'm not sure if they've heard the term "volunteer army" but technically the president is sending "the army" not "the poor," and I think the reason why is that it's the army's...what's that word...job. Honestly the first time I heard it, I thought it was supposed to be making fun of generic punk rock. I thought they couldn't seriously write something so trite, generic, and overdone. Turns out I was wrong.

My Sweet revenge is in the making it's for the taking. I don't even understand why you'd choose this line. There's nothing special about it, save the fact that it rhymes. Nothing poetic in these words. Really it's just pretentious garbage that pretends to be high-minded. Clever lyrics are supposed to be clever, not junk. What part of this is clever? My sweet revenge is in the making...it's for the taking? I don't understand how this particular line speaks to you. Yeah, he's gonna make revenge and take revenge and he's worked it into a phrase that has a slightly different meaning. Ok, working puns that moronic and obvious into a line has been done...by Spinal Tap. If System of a Down didn't take themselves seriously, I'd think they were ok. But they do, so they're not. Besides, all the atonal screaming alone is enough to tell you to shy away from their music. Any music that involves that hideous screamo yell can automatically be labeled as "produced by musicians too poor to understand melody and cadence."

You raise some interesting points, ("the President is commander-in-chief of the military. Were he to fight in the war we'd probably, I'm sorry, definitely, end up with a nation in turmoil.") - but I don't think these lyric's apply solely to the recent Iraqi war - there have been many wars across the globe this particular song could be applied to, and "President" could be replaced with "Prime Minister", "Consul" or even "Mein Furer"; the point is much the same. I know this isn't the song you applied this to, but this is why their lyrics and other songs appeal to me.

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"There's nothing special about it, save the fact that it rhymes. Nothing poetic in these words. Really it's just pretentious garbage that pretends to be high-minded."

How many artists in the history of music (Balck Sabbath, Led Zepplin, Iron Maiden, The Beatles, Bob Dylan, The Rolling Stones) haven't used lines purely for the reason for that fact they rhyme? If you could give me some examples of lyrics that are "clever", perhaps I could understand more where you're coming from; however, does the fact that the word rhyme make their songs any less worth listening to?

To call something moronic because it has a different point of view seems, to me, in itself egocentric.

I'll clarify this with my earlier statement:

"(In my opinion) some songs (whoever the artist) should be delved into and they have a deep meaning; others should simply be taken on face value."

This is starting to sound like a debate I don't think either of us can win - perhaps we should just agree to disagree?

I do respect your opinion, and I'm not trying to say you're wrong, I'm just saying there's other points of view. System (perhaps not in the songs I've quoted, but certainly in other songs) raise these other points of view, which I'm willing to absorb and make my own decision on.

I mean no offence, I'm just coming from somewhere else that is different from where you're coming from.

Originally Posted by: WilldridgeYou raise some interesting points, ("the President is commander-in-chief of the military. Were he to fight in the war we'd probably, I'm sorry, definitely, end up with a nation in turmoil.") - but I don't think these lyric's apply solely to the recent Iraqi war - there have been many wars across the globe this particular song could be applied to, and "President" could be replaced with "Prime Minister", "Consul" or even "Mein Furer"; the point is much the same.

But does not the point Jolly makes apply to all of those situations equally well? Did not Saladin advize King Richard that if he continued to insist on leading from the front (in fact, knee deep in the battle) that it would one day cost him his life?

Originally Posted by: RaskolnikovBut does not the point Jolly makes apply to all of those situations equally well? Did not Saladin advize King Richard that if he continued to insist on leading from the front (in fact, knee deep in the battle) that it would one day cost him his life?[/QUOTE]

This isn't the point I was trying to make, (although it is valid). I don't think "Why don't President's fight the war" means leading from the front, I simply think that it's an observation that war is often entered by leaders, (and I don't mean President, the "Mein Furer" (and I do mean Hitler) line is as important, as is my other examples of world leaders) who have little regard (or perhaps realisation is more the word I'm after) for the life's of the soldier's who actually go fight the battles.

For the record, I supported, and still do, the war against Saddam (and it was a war against Saddam, not Iraq).

But isn't this all irrelevant?

[QUOTE=Willdridge]Is anyone else eagerly awaiting 'Hypnotize'?

This is what the thread was all about - I'd be happy to continue this discussion, but I don't believe the path's it's leading down belong to this thread.

Thank you PonyOne - you've made the same points I wanted to, just much better than I probably could have.

Anyway, as you say, back to the point:

They've put 'Hypnotize' (title track) on their website for people to listen to, so if you're interested in hearing what the next album sounds like you could get an idea, (although I don't think one track can tell the whole story of any album). Certainly sound's interesting, I'm intrigued to hear the other tracks.

Originally Posted by: PonyOnebut that doesn't detract from their musical abilities

What might these be exactly?

The ability to scream atonally for no apparent reason?
The ability to write generic, unpoetic lyrics?
The ability to play guitar sloppily?
The ability to have a lead vocalist who CAN sing but doesn't seem to want to?

All they had before I realized they didn't have it, was an ability to be tongue-in-cheek. To make fun of other musical genres. I thought that was their goal. When it turned out it wasn't, they held no more water. They're not clever, they're not musical, they have nothing. Even that alien song, which managed to have a melody, was repetitive, boring, and went on for way too long. When SOAD manages to write a piece of music. Not even a decent piece of music, just music in general. I'll be right behind them, supporting them for doing so. As of yet all I've heard is atonal screaming and bad lyrics.

Yes, they've been political since the beginning, but for some reason they think that entitles them to being the ONLY political band around (if you've ever heard what the lead singer has to say about other bands being political). SOAD is not the first, nor will they be the last. Now, I have nothing against political music, but the day SOAD writes lyrics like Dylan, Waits, Young, or anyone who has ever been clever at any point is the day I'll be a fan.

Originally Posted by: elklanderccFirst off, their Steal this Album was crap. But they regained theirself with Mezmerize. But a lot of their songs have meanings of the war and how their against it. Like the intro, it talks about a soldier standing there alone as his friends are dying around him. "Why do we always send the poor" is refering to the mass amounts of low class people signing up for the military while congress keeps their sons safe at college. If you check out lyrics you will see tons of stuff. Ex: We're the propagators of all genocide, Burning through the world's resources, then we turn and hide.....The kinda **** thats on your TV!,The kinda **** thats on your TV!,It's on the TV,It's on your TV,Turn off your TV,Can you say brainwashing?......What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?!!!............Stuff like that.

have you ever heard of Black Sabbath? Read the lyrics to "War Pigs" and think about where SOAD got their ideas for lyrics....

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of death’s construction
In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

[U]Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor[/U]

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait ’till their judgement day comes, yeah!

Now in darkness, world stops turning
As the war machine keeps burning
No more war pigs of the power
Hand of God has sturck the hour
Day of judgement, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
All right now!

yea so they didn't rip that off at all

but anyway, coming from a guy who listends to Dream Theater, Zeppelin, Sabbath, Rush, Yes, Marillion, Pink Floyd, etc. etc. I was really expecting to hate SOAD, but I heard some of the new CD and i was really suprised at how interesting some of the songs were, the only title I remember was 'radio/video' but were some really cool time changes, riffs, chords, and melodies, I'd listen to them again

Originally Posted by: TheWizard
yea so they didn't rip that off at all

but anyway, coming from a guy who listends to Dream Theater, Sabbath, Sabbath, Rush, Yes, Marillion, Pink Floyd, etc. etc. I was really expecting to hate SOAD, but I heard some of the new CD and i was really suprised at how interesting some of the songs were, the only title I remember was 'radio/video' but were some really cool time changes, riffs, chords, and melodies, I'd listen to them again

Maybe they were, maybe they weren't - but does it really matter if the lyrics have appeared in other songs? Using someone else's song as inspiration is no worse than an artist referencing their own (Bowie's "Ashes to ashes, funk to funkie, we know Major Tom's a junkie") in my opinion.
You're right about all those elements you've mentioned, and they're also tight as a unit - and they have stage presence.


I've seen them live and, Jolly, saying that they can't play suggests to me you've never taken the time to actually listen to them.

I have one last thought, because this debate and it's "my opinions" are starting to go around in circles...Jolly, and anyone else for that matter - for someone who dislikes the band and their music so much, you seem to spend an awful lot of time thinking about it.
If you're so against their music, or even just them, why did you even read this thread, let alone spend time replying to it? Why not invest your time talking about the bands you do like on other threads? Or playing your guitar and recording the music that'll be the demise of System? Thereby, you'll never have to listen to System or their "moronic lyrics" again.

Just a thought.