Anyone seen this Film?


Axl_Rose
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Axl_Rose
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05/24/2005 5:58 pm
I watched the first 10 mins of Fahrenheit 911, and Ill watch the rest tonight.

Just wondered if anyone has seen it and what they think? Should it be taken with a pinch of salt or is it actually pretty accurate?

I was a bit shocked with the opening minutes of it and thought Id ask you guys before being submersed in a film which might actually be a lotta nonsense.
# 1
Raskolnikov
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05/24/2005 6:18 pm
Originally Posted by: Axl_RoseI watched the first 10 mins of Fahrenheit 911, and Ill watch the rest tonight.

Just wondered if anyone has seen it and what they think? Should it be taken with a pinch of salt or is it actually pretty accurate?

Moore takes very significant liberties with the truth -- you really have to bear that in mind when viewing or reading his work. I'd go into it further, but somebody else has already done a much better job than I could hope to:

To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental. To describe it as an exercise in facile crowd-pleasing would be too obvious. Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of "dissenting" bravery.

Full Article

One should also bear in mind that this guy took a break from writing articles about how much Reagan sucked to write that review.
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GuitarPsy
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05/24/2005 7:53 pm
the part you quoted, can you please translate it into normal english cause I really have a hard time understanding those words :p
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Raskolnikov
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05/24/2005 8:46 pm
Originally Posted by: GuitarPsythe part you quoted, can you please translate it into normal english cause I really have a hard time understanding those words :p

"It sucks and makes me ashamed to call myself a 'Liberal.'"
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x0o_BurnOut_o0x
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05/24/2005 8:52 pm
I watched this movie, and i think it is very very biased, and it adds comments to persuade the audience to adopt the writers opinon. Because of this i have no trouble in thinking the writer had made situations look more complex when rele there was nothing suggesting a conspiracy there, but twisted them to his advantage. I do however believe some of it to be true. I didnt like Bush before watching the movie, and just watched it as an after thought, and it was plain to see some of the things in the movie were exaggerated and twisted against Bush. I do give them an amount of credit, they voiced their opinons without a thought as to the outcome. Trying to bring the public the more sinister side of politics, but there opinon got the best of them and started exaggerating.
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Axl_Rose
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05/24/2005 8:56 pm
Bush makes me cringe... from his interviews... and speaches, I sense he isnt a very smart guy. He looks like, and carrys himself like my nextdoor neighbour who is a total bleep!! :mad:
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05/24/2005 9:24 pm
God this movie was horrible!

Not because I'm for or against Bush, it was just so friggin' boring!
I tried to enjoy it since the things he was saying was quite interesting, but my
boredom got so immense I simply couldn't take it anymore.
What happened after Bowling for Columbine?
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05/25/2005 12:07 am
I didnt think it boring at all. It made me hate Bush even more then i did, which is saying something, since i wanted to hang him from a tree. It did make him look rele stupid and arrogant didnt it?
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x0o_BurnOut_o0x
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05/25/2005 9:44 pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd_degreeburn
Moore is a fat slob so I really don't care to what he had to say in the movie seeing that it was very biased.

check it out if you want, I haven't

first of all, last time i checked someone being a "fat slob" has nothing to do with whether or not they have a valid opinion...

...second of all maybe you should go see it before you proclaim it's "very biased." of course it's biased, but, there is some truth to it, and, there's nothing untrue about clips of Bush contradicting himself, lying, and generally being caught being an idiot on film.




lmfao i smell something burning? What about you?
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Axl_Rose
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05/25/2005 10:19 pm
YEa moore tries many techniques with editing and sound to make things more signifacnt than they probably were, and some parts more dramatic than perhaps they were.

But the facts on the relationship between Bush and the Saudi People are facts! And Bush really shows himself up for what he is in his comments and mannerisms. At one point hes asked about his holiday shedule and if he intends to get some work done later in the day... he fumbles his words and the best he comes up with is something along the lines of "I have some things to do today, you know, some stuff, later on, Ill be doing some stuff, some erm, some, some initiatives, erm, later on", when when asked what initiatives he couldnt answer! The man clearly hasnt got a clue whats going on.

I dont like tony blair, but the man has an answer for everything, hes well clued up, he does his homework so to speak! But Bush, man, the guy just constantly looks nervous and uneasy, he doesnt ahve a clue whats going on. And the whole going to war was a joke.
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Andrew Sa
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05/25/2005 10:46 pm
I think that Micheal Moore has some very accurate and valid opinions...they are just hidden amongs the bull****!
I am certainly no Bush Fan, and I do consider myself to be a Moore fan(not Farenhei, but Canadian Bacon and Bowling for columbine were amazing and genius) as for his books and farenheit911, they may have some valid points, but towards the end it seems he just runs out of things to say and repeats himself...or talks ****. Most of his stuff would be so much more credible if he just stopped writing at about the halfway point!
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05/26/2005 12:24 am
Anyone ever seen canadian bacon? That was and old movie i think moore directed, its hilarious. Also check out his other doc, "Bowling for Columbine."
"During this line, the kid acted like he was pushing buttons on a calculator in the air. The kid played ******* air-calculator!"

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Raskolnikov
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05/26/2005 3:20 am
Originally Posted by: Axl_RoseBut the facts on the relationship between Bush and the Saudi People are facts![/quote]
For all practical purposes, the Bush family has been in the oil business since there has been one... Why shouldn't there be ties between the Bushes and the Saudis?


Originally Posted by: Axl_RoseAnd the whole going to war was a joke.[/QUOTE]
I dunno.

Finding nuclear centerfuges (not "tubes" that could be used in one, the actual machine, burried in a weapons scientists' back yard), that Saddam was negotiating with North Korea for missle systems, that the Iraqis smuggled rocket engines out of Iraq right under the nose of UN inspectors, and that Russia sent in special forces units to remove evidence were all, in a way, a lot worse than finding stockpiles of VX...

The inspection process was totally corrupt, Saddam never once put his plans for WMDs behind him and the major opponents of the war were all trying to cover their asses in one way or another (and in some cases, many ways) -- but Moore doesn't talk about that stuff.


I think the problem with him and anything he says is that even the factual stuff he tries to state is often taken so far out of context as to be no better than a lie.



[QUOTE=PonyOne][QUOTE=3rd_degreeburn]here are a list of sites that tell you about the other side of the movie.. if you choose to believe that moore's points are valid then these websites will be a waiste of your time.[/url]
http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723/

kind of like how if someone decides it's eaiser to disregard something and go off of hearsay and websites devoted to skewering it, and resort to making back-handed comments about the physical appearance of the person who made it, there's probably not much point in trying to reason with them...

Of all the URLs to leave un-clipped from the original post, the Hitchens review seems most out of place...

He is very direct, his arguments are very sound and every time I've double checked his information, he's been correct.
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rockonman
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05/26/2005 9:23 pm
Originally Posted by: Axl_Rose. And the whole going to war was a joke.

Tell that to the people who died over there, and their families.
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# 14
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05/27/2005 8:02 pm
Originally Posted by: PonyOnemy dad's over there as we speak and he'll tell you that... that what really makes it so horrible is that it's a joke in which large numbers of people die.

And if you talk to my best friend who's currently escorting convoys, he'll tell you that, as much as he'd like to be back home, he believes in what he's doing.
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05/27/2005 9:06 pm
The only part that I thought was out of hand was how Moore took the emotional factor in Bush's ideas. That is TOTALLY opinion based with no reason but to destruct the opponent.

Until the emotional part at the end, the movie was quite reasonable and you could understand Moore's point. But when it showed mothers crying over their sons in Iraq, that was not nessesary.
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crazyguy
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05/28/2005 12:08 am
Taking into account the large number of U.S. troops in the Middle East are there because nobody's been tresspassing lately back home and they feel like shooting someone, I do appreciate those who do it for their beliefs. On the other hand, it's easy to persuade yourself you killed people (some of whom are allways innocent) because of your beliefs, but that's just making your conscience look the other way.
I've seen "Bowling..." and read "Stupid White Men" and tried to extract the facts from heartbreaking tears of those who lost someone in war or a drive-by or a school shooting.
I would kill Bush if given a chance, not because I hate him (I don't hate), but out of altruism. I believe that a country as strong and influential as America cannot afford to become the world's biggest joke because of any individual, even more so in case of this poor, reality-challenged, braindead idiot. That's my belief and for that I would kill or die.

For all who posted on this thread I reccomend obtaining and watching "Revelations" by Bill Hicks. The refferences to Bush (sr.) and Gulf war are scary because they still apply, and the most apparent thing is that US sells arms all over the world and then sends men to die while retrieving or destroying it.

Once again I am amazed how the pricelessness of human lives is interpreted as a 0$ price tag.
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x0o_BurnOut_o0x
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05/30/2005 4:49 am
I think the reason for war was wrong and misleading, i mean Korea has the weapons, and not to mention the BRAINS behind it and i think they are a bigger threat as to WMD. Why are we not focusing efforts on finding and killing Osama Bin Laden? Our soldiers dont have a choice to wether they are going to fight for this cause. They are out there and have to fight for whatever reason our goverment plants in our heads. I dont see the president out there with a gun fighting for the country he " loves so much", He wouldnt let his daughters go fight HIS war. Yet he seems so willing to toss around "dieing for your country". We have to die for our country. If not us, who? Because i certainly dont see the president or the senetors or the governors grabbing thier gun, **** THIS IM GOING TO GO FIGHT FOR WHAT I THINK IS RIGHT, RIGHT BESIDE MY PEOPLE!
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05/30/2005 5:46 am
Originally Posted by: x0o_BurnOut_o0xI think the reason for war was wrong and misleading...[/quote]
Yes, but we live in a nation of people that save, on average something less than 10% of their income -- talking to Americans about where and why we're going to have to commit our troops in 10 - 15 years is like talking to a Klansman about the positive effects of diversity in our society; a total waste of breath.


Originally Posted by: x0o_BurnOut_o0x...i mean Korea has the weapons, and not to mention the BRAINS behind it and i think they are a bigger threat as to WMD.[/quote]
Since the end of the Korean War, North Korea has established a 40 year history of being primarily concerned with self defense -- Saddam Hussein has a 30 year history of being primarily concerned with uniting all of the Arab nations in a Pan-Arab war which is a direct threat to many of our allies.


Originally Posted by: x0o_BurnOut_o0xWhy are we not focusing efforts on finding and killing Osama Bin Laden?[/quote]
Because, the issue of bringing a mass murderer to justice aside, it would be a waste of time and effort.


[QUOTE=x0o_BurnOut_o0x]Our soldiers dont have a choice to wether they are going to fight for this cause. They are out there and have to fight for whatever reason our goverment plants in our heads.

Our troops had their choice when they enlisted, and once you enlist, that's the name of the game.

Three of my best friends from high school and one of their wives were/are in the military (three have re-enlisted subsequent to the Iraq war, and (as I said earlier) one is serving in Iraq), and that's how they see it, anyway.


[QUOTE=x0o_BurnOut_o0x]I dont see the president out there with a gun fighting for the country he " loves so much", He wouldnt let his daughters go fight HIS war.

Last I checked, nobody's daughter serving in the US military was allowed directly in combat unless they flew fighter jets.


[QUOTE=x0o_BurnOut_o0x]Yet he seems so willing to toss around "dieing for your country". We have to die for our country. If not us, who? Because i certainly dont see the president or the senetors or the governors grabbing thier gun, **** THIS IM GOING TO GO FIGHT FOR WHAT I THINK IS RIGHT, RIGHT BESIDE MY PEOPLE!

Pick what you feel is the most justified war in History; the political leadership of the protagonist probably didn't fight.

Now, look at Alexander the Great, Genghis Kahn, Napoleon, etc (all who led from the front)... how justified were the wars they fought?
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# 19
TreeGodfather
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05/30/2005 7:18 am
Not being a person to mince words...

Moore is an idiot.
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