Moral discussion

Hello!

I stand in some kind moral debate with my self. Jon Nödtveit, songwriter singer lead guitar etc. in Dissection, will soon be realeased from prison after spending 7 years of his life inside the walls. He killed a guy. Jon has written music inside the prison and I suppose he will start recording as soon as possible.

Should I really listen to the new ablums? I mean, should I listen to them at all? The music doesn't kill, but musiscians obviesly can. I don't know what you think, but isn't VERY disrespectfully to the victims family and friends to wear a Dissection band-shirt? Is it disrespectfully to listen to them?

Please, give me your opinion! Also share your experience of being in somekind music-moral situation if you want!

That's a difficult one to answer.... I personally wouldn't have anything to do with the band. I can't think of any reason why you would have to kill someone, unless it was a case of you kill them or get killed. I wouldn't support anyone who'd done something like that. Then again that's just me :rolleyes:

Wait? Isn't the real question "Why did he only spend seven years in prison for taking a life?" Shouldn't he have gone to jail forever?

Here's a solution. If you want to listen to their music, listen to it. If you don't, then don't. No matter who it is and what they've done, music can still be good and enjoyable and vice versa. If it doesn't feel right to listen to it, then don't. But I wouldn't advise not listening to quality music (not saying it is or isn't, just speaking in general) just because you don't care for the person that wrote it. I guess just do what your heart, so to say, says. If it feels wrong, then it very well might be.

Hundreds of thousands of people have died because of Christianity and/or the lack of it. Nobody seems to shun it.

I say - dig the message, not the messanger.

I have a good compromise. Download his music illegally off the internet. ;)

Originally Posted by: basicsHundreds of thousands of people have died because of Christianity and/or the lack of it. Nobody seems to shun it.

lol, was that ever dumb.

Christianity didn't do **** dude, that's a part of human nature. You might as well say you were possessed by the devil. It's not like there's a cloud of christianity hiding behind a bush waiting to ambush someone and make them start killing people. My views on religion are my own, so I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, that's not my business or concern. I just think it's stupid to point the finger at things you don't believe in or whatever for the flaws you see in life. When you get down to it, we're responsible for everything we do. We make decisions and every decision has an outcome. Christianity isn't just sitting in a hole in the ground plotting the next 100,000 people to kill. That's just inane.

Hey man, for all religion does for people it still kills. That was my point. Just like buddy there. lol.

The reason it was dumb was because people do shun it.

I buy dope and enjoy it, but I never think about how many people might've died to put it in my hands. Evil wrapped in goodness. A beautiful apple inagoddadavida.

Buddy might've killed a guy but he makes wonderful music. Who cares, imo.

Basics..i think that you shouldnt post anytihng when your drunk..one day that dopes gonna kill u...they tend to be utterly stupid posts...well thats if ur drunk right now
religion doesnt kill people...people kill people..now some killings might be a part of a religion but still it doesnt kill..people kill...
Try listening to his music..if it starts to bother you than stop..I believe that anyone that intentionally killed someone should be executed (yea i support the death penalty)..Im not saying this guy should be because i dont know anything about how or why it happened

Originally Posted by: PonyOnedo you know the circumstances under which he killed the other guy? Was it two drunk idiots fighting and the fight got to intense, or did he have a personal vendetta against him, track him down and murder him?

Well, I've been told he shot a black guy who was gay (I don't know if his color or that he was homosexuell was the reason, maybe both) and thats troubling me.. This guy writes all the lyrics, so may they have nazi-messages? I'm so against all kind of rasism and fascism and intolerance general and that's the scary ****, may I've been listening to bloody nazis for several months?? Acctually, as I read your posts, the more I figured out that I must take some kind of position? Can I listen to whithe power music just because the guitarist is awesome? No, I don't think so.

But!!! When he steps out of the prison, he has taken his punishment and he's a free man again. Maybe he has changed! Shouldn't I give him at least a chanse? Or will I read the new lyrics for weeks just to make shure if thats fu**ing nazi-propaganda? I may never be shure.. No, I guess I will be reading some interwievs first and see if he seams to AT LEAST regret his crime and that he's sorry that a guy doesn't live anymore..

Anyway, I'm against death punishment. Such doesn't change anything in the long distance.. Less drinking, smoking etc. + preventing actions to children with difficult growth and much better psychical care is the key to end such crimes..

Everyone may not agree, and I'm looking forward to discuss it with those who like..

Thanx for your interesting answers!!!!

Originally Posted by: HammurabiI have a good compromise. Download his music illegally off the internet. ;)

Thats exactly what I was going to say...

Originally Posted by: ketsueki15they tend to be utterly stupid posts...well thats if ur drunk right now
religion doesnt kill people...people kill people..now some killings might be a part of a religion but still it doesnt kill..people kill...

:D I wasn't drunk. I was just using religion to demonstrate how something decent (buddy's music) might have evil origins. Religion makes people content, pacified and controlled but also causes war. You might enjoy buddy's music but he killed a guy.


It's a moral decision and I personally wouldn't quit listening to his music just because of it. I'd quit listening to him if his message implied things I didn't appreciate, like you said.

Listen to it if you want to.
Mein Kampf is a popular book, and Hitler wasn't that nice either.
Well, maybe that was a bad example, but do you see my point here?

Originally Posted by: Inisfail
Anyway, I'm against death punishment. Such doesn't change anything in the long distance.. Less drinking, smoking etc. + preventing actions to children with difficult growth and much better psychical care is the key to end such crimes..

Everyone may not agree, and I'm looking forward to discuss it with those who like..

Thanx for your interesting answers!!!!

Well its one less crazy mother fu***r on this planet..I see it like..He killed somebody (from what it sounds like it seems like he did it intentionally) why should he have the right to live? an Eye for Eye/Life for a life
..thats just my view on things (and please dont bring up that people are killed all the time Iraq..thats a completely diferent thing)

Originally Posted by: ketsueki15Well its one less crazy mother fu***r on this planet..I see it like..He killed somebody (from what it sounds like it seems like he did it intentionally) why should he have the right to live? an Eye for Eye/Life for a life
..thats just my view on things (and please dont bring up that people are killed all the time Iraq..thats a completely diferent thing)

Well, I guess we have different opinions about the war on Iraq, but okey, let's put that aside. =D

An everyday answer on death penelties is: What if the guy acctually is innocent? Is there situations when you are completely shure that he isn't?

I don't think death penelties works in a democracy. I suggest that all countries in the world follows the canadian model in the treatment of prisoners. They have splended results. There should be several sites on the net where you can read about it.

But of course, treatment won't bring the dead back. I don't have any friend or so who have been killed and maybe I would have a different point of weiv then. I guess their will allways be poeple who will do things that are awfull. But we most work together to prevent such deeds, and I don't think thats impossible, but if we wan't to suceed we must have a great piece of patience and understand that aren't any fast solutions, not onto that problem nor on any problem in the whole world.

The death penalty is pretty retarded in my opinion... the law has just as much right to kill someone as I do... none. Death doesn't cancel out death, no matter what the circumstances are, it's not any more right just because a jury of a few people says it is. You can't judge someone to the extent of taking their life unless you know everything about their life that's led up to that point. If i'd been brought up to hate jews/blacks/homosexuals, i'm sure i'd hate them, it wouldn't be my fault, it'd be the fault of the people who taught me that in the first place. Don't think I have to point out that i'm not like that, but you get my point. :P

- J

Originally Posted by: Inisfail... Anyway, I'm against death punishment. Such doesn't change anything in the long distance.. Less drinking, smoking etc. + preventing actions to children with difficult growth and much better psychical care is the key to end such crimes...

After you've talked to career criminals, you come to realise that some people are just "wired wrong". There's no such thing as rehabilitation for such people. And there's no such thing as non-premeditated "crime of opportunity" - crimes don't happen unless the people who commit them have taken the time to decide that a particular action is something they would be willing to do.

Did'nt David Allen Cole serve time for killing a man for screwin around
with his ole lady ? yes
He has sold millions of albums since then, so the majority of people
either don't give a sh*t or they are intrigued and listen to the lyrics
in his songs about how, when, where, and why he did what he did.
Along with other songs about prison etc.
Morbid bastards :D [ To Each His Own ] [ Guitarmanxxxx ]

When you get down to it, we're all humans just the same. One human is not allowed to kill people so, what makes a collection of humans (political law makers) have the right to decide someone should die. Personally I'm never one bit ungrateful it's not me that makes that decision. Religious belief or not, killing just isn't right. I've never supported death and I never will. Ironic that I listen to music based around peoples' untimely ends. I guess, that's just as well, I'd rather hear songs of made up, based on real things, or whatever deaths than determine someone else's fate. Not my place to be so its' not where I'll go. I guess this also means I don't support war. Never have and I never will, I just plain don't like the idea of people dying. I can hear it in music all day long, but death isn't something that should be plastered all over the place. I'd rather see two people having sex (porn - which is obviously banned on tv unless you pay enough) over a drama or whatever based around someone dying. Think about it, one takes love, so to say, and creates life. The other takes life. It only makes sense to me that sex should be on tv first because it's a more sensual and love filled thing to do. If people are worried about their kids getting bad ideas then just throw some phrases in the fray like "I'm so happy we waited until marriage" or "I wouldn't do this with anyone other than you whom I love more than anyone else". Get creative with it, it's not like they're working hard on the story line so, clearly it doesn't have to make much sense.