How should I learn scales?

Can you give me some advices how i should learn the different scales? Here is what I know: I know Major scale and Pentatonic scale, but i only know them in patterns. So i heard that the idea of pattern is bull****, and that it can limit your creativity(which might be true for me). I´m planning to learn the whole fretboard in notes, so that I can change keys easily, if I just remember the basic note of each pattern. I already know half of the notes by heart.

So but now my two questions:

1)If I know the whole fretboard in notes, is there a better way to learn scales?

2) I don´t understand for instance, what the difference between C major scale and C Ionian Mode is, or when they say I play D Dorian Mode over the whole fretboard, why don´t they say I play G mixolydian Mode or A Aeolian Mode over the whole fretboard, because that´s the same, isn´t it?

Well Cmaj is C Ionian.

Find a book or look around on this site, learn which notes are in which scales, then learn the patterns.

I think you should take your time if you really want to be good at what you're doing. Just because someone says that the box is useless doesnt mean you should stop praciticing it. I think you should practice your boxes and when you're good enough, you can progress from box playing to all over the fretboard. I learned by memorizing the 5 forms of the pentatonic scale in boxes. When I got it, it was much easier for me to play all across the fretboard.

As of modes, think of them as a displaced scale. For instance, what would happen if you took all the notes from c major w/ no sharps or flats but instead of starting and ending on c, you started with d and ended with d? since there are 7 notes, there are 7 modes.

Ionian- the major scale
Dorian- when you play a major scale starting on the second note and ending on the same second note one octave higher.
Phrygian- same concept except you start on the third note and end in the same third note one octave higher.
Lydian- same concept except you start on the fourth note
Mixolydian- start on fifth note
Aeolian- start on sixth note
Locrian- start on seventh note

I personally don't get too obsessed with scales- particularly the modes because you'll never use all of them anyways. If you ask me, just learn your major scales, minor scales, your pentatonic scales and you're pretty much set.

When I play solo, I don't rely too much on scales. I rely more on the sounds on my head. Don't you think its much neater if you can play the sounds comming from your head (ie. transcribe the music in your head to your hands accurately) than relying on scales. You develop your vigilance in hearing and the way you analyze music more I think. In my opinion, I think scales and modes are only meant as guidelines. Music shouldn't be totally based on them. Good luck learning them anyways.

The Ionian mode refers to a major scale. For example, C Ionian is the same as C Major. Furthermore, the Aeolian mode refers to a minor scale. ie. A Aeolian is the same as A minor. Learn all 5 Major (Ionian) patterns. Once done, modal theory should be relatively easy to acquire.

Saying that learning scales in patterns limits creativity is the same as saying that memorizing chords shapes limits creativity !

Study them in patterns first , it's more practical & you'll find yourself progressing fast ... Eventually at some point , you'll find yourself digging more into theory and understanding more about it.

Thanks for your suggestions( especially for the fool´s long answer!)

Just one advice you could give to me please: Till now I only improvised with the 5 patterns in C major, and I realized that the notes are all right, but often it doens´t sound good. So can you give me some tips how I can learn to be more creative with these patterns instead of playing always very similar licks cause of muscle memory?

Try matching you patterns with the chord progression ... You'll find some notes that sounds better than the other over a given chord.
It's the selection of the notes that makes a guitarist sounds more melodical than the other ... Practice more with improvising , experience certainly helps.

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Quote by beginner
Till now I only improvised with the 5 patterns in C major, and I realized that the notes are all right, but often it doens´t sound good. So can you give me some tips how I can learn to be more creative with these patterns instead of playing always very similar licks cause of muscle memory?
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Besides matching up your patterns with chord progression as sly said, try the following too

1. Try playing your scales in different combinations (ie. juggle around the order of the notes) to make things more interesting.

2. Voicing- some people might think this is unnecessary but i found that this not only a great way to learn how to sing in tune, it also helps you think "outside the box." By singing every note you play, you create and strenghten the connection between your fingers, ears, and brain by improving your ability to play what you hear- not just what your fingers can play.

3. Adding 'phrasings' and 'inflections' to your scales might help your problem of "scales not sounding good" because phrasings and inflections add life and emotion to guitar playing. To me, i personally believe that guitar playing is very similar to singing. If you don't mind, and if you can still bear with me, let me give you a little history:

The evolution of pentatonic playing comes from early blues. The sound of blues started with early singers (ie. blues/ gospel singers sang pentatonic melodies acapella in many different ways and improvisations). When the guitar became a dominant instrument, the goal for many blues and also many rock palers (since rock evolved from blues) is to emulate the human voice and its improvisatory style. Hence you have your vibratos, bendings, hammer ons and pull offs. Just think of Eric Clapton :)

Next time you play your scales, try adding these lil' things and hopefully you'd enjoy playing your scales more :)
Keep on rockin!

thanks very much "the fool". This seems really logical that it helps. But I had to look up what phrasing is.

lol sorry if i've given you some homework. how's your guitar playing been? i hope my tips have added more fun to your guitar playing.

I think till now(I started 10 month ago) my guitar playing has been actually quite successful, but this refers only to technique, because I just recently realized that the musicial part is actually more important. So in the beginning 9 months I did only technique exercises instead of more jamming and now I´m trying to be more creative, and I already (also due to your suggestions) see some progress in my improvised playing. It´s getting more melodic now....

Yeah, I bet you're getting pretty good, dude. What kind of guitar do you have anyways? I have a friend who's been playing about...ahhh...I think a year and a half to two years, but she has the biggest inferiority complex where guitar is concerned, so she hasn't improved but so much and is terrified to improv with her scales. I'm sure you're way better, because you seem pretty confident. Come to think of it, my cousin is the same way. He's terrified of making mistakes in front of people. One of those guys who'd do anything you tell him because he craves acceptance so desperately, you know? Anyhow, keep it up, dog, and memorize what they told you, and be confident about the scales, you don't want to start sucking just because you're afraid to suck.

I have one career guitar, which is quite alright, and one really cool looking and really good sounding HOHNER Revelation RTS, and it´s especially good for the sound i prefer, Metal! But it´s also good in other music styles.
It´s true that I´m confident, but not because I see myself as a good player, just because I think it´s important to believe to yourself so that your progress won´t be stopped. Actually I still see myself as a beginner, because I know it´s still so much to do, but I don´t stress myself getting a good player in a short time, because I think it doesn´t work.

But maybe I have just got more confident since my father told me this,"Yesterday i brought your teacher(which is nearly a friend of him) a bottle of wine for christmas, and asked him if you are doing well"

And he replied: "I don´t think he´s just doing well, rather very well. He will soon get indepentend and won´t need me anymore, but that´s right this way!"

Then I probably realized that I must actually be on a good way, because I don´t think that my teacher says this without any reason, or I at least hope it.

You know, you're not alone- we are all are beginners- even the one who think they're very good, as the saying goes: "Life is a never ending process of learning." Learning never stops- its a continuous process- and i'm not just referring to just the guitar but to everything in general like relationships with people, beliefs and opinions, education etc. The only difference is that some people progress faster than others, but take your time and don't lose hope- you'll get there like everyone else :)

I'm glad you're doing very well! you're not just a strong willed individual- you're very humble too. Who cares if you're not at the level that you want to play yet? With youre attitude, I think you're going to be a great guitarist someday. If you ask me, the most important characters that i treasure are being strong willed, motivated, and hard working. I don't care if you're not the best technically, as long as you have the heart. I've been in and out of bands and met a lot of people. I had worked with great guitarists and not so skilled guitarists along the process. Often times, I find that the less gifted but more motivated musicians tend to get better in the long run because they always listen and they're always willing to learn something new. i also find that it's better working with them because chances are, they don't have very big egos the size of the CN tower like the gifted ones. anyways, keep up the good work and the attitude. it might just lead you somewhere good!

Thanks man, I´ll continue working like that, that´s for sure, as long as I have the time for it. And i absolutely agree with your statements about attitude in relation to progress and so on!!

okay

now --- i havent read all the replies to your question but ... my thinking is: it's better to study where all the notes are on your guitar...once you know that you only have to know which notes belong to a certain scale...and you can make up your own patterns easily.
that way you only have to know the 5 or 7 notes that belong to a scale...and there you go. every time you wanna learn a new scale youll only have to memorize those 5-7 notes!
the other way round you'll have to study thousands of patterns ... without really knowing what youre doing there. :)

when i started playing guitar i also got me a bad ass scale book with all kinds of patterns...but i could never figure out how you are supposed to study them all ... now that i picked my guitar up again after a couple of years doing electronic music ... i realized that even tho its a tedious job - once you know where all the notes are on your fretboard it can only help you. and not just for scales ... you also see different voicings for chords all over the fretboard ...


hope this helps :)

ike