Saddam Hussein officially captured!

ROFLMAO!!

What I find the most annoying about America and Americans isn’t that they headed the witch-hunt for finding Sadam’s WoMD but their view on the rest of the world especially their allies.

I was shocked and startled when on an Aussie TV show, CNNNN (a parody of CNN), interviewed American people off the street, about the war on terror. The answers to questions were funny but horrifying at the same time. They were shown a map of the world, except Australia and the UK had their labels changed to Iraq and North Korea. The Yanks were given little flags to put onto countries that America should nuke. After a moment of searching, they found ‘Iraq’ and ‘North Korea’ and all of them pinned the flags onto the pseudo axis of evil countries (Australia and UK) with out question. It is scary to think that people who are so quick to nuke countries can’t even recognise friend from foe, major allies, like England and Australia, in particular.

Perhaps Australia isn’t seen as a huge ally because of it’s pathetic military and the majority of us we against the war on Iraq but that doesn’t stop the fact that we were one of the first to jump onto the ‘coalition of the willing’ bandwagon and our prime minister, John Howard, has been kissing Bush’s arse from day 1. He’s even got dubbed with name Bonsai (little bush) after his arse-kissing efforts.

What’s even more annoying is that you’ve hardly ever acknowledged the fact that America once supported Sadam. The only weapons of mass destruction that Sadam had was ones that America gave to him when Iraq fighting against Iran. How many times was the meeting between Donald Rumsfield aired on TV? Yes Sadam was and Is an evil SOB, murdering hundreds of thousands of his own people and he also deserves the death penalty but America once supported his evil regime. America also supported the Taliban too. On that note, you’ve got Sadam. Where’s Osama?

But what tops it off is that America has sh*t loads of nuclear weapons itself but uses ‘Iraq has nuclear weapons, they must be stopped’ as an excuse for war. Why doesn’t America destroy their WoMD when they demand others to?

Don't take this as a personal attack on America and it's people but it's true that America isn't seen favourably by others and here are just a few reasons why.

I can't believe I missed that !

I'm not going to go for detailed arguments , but I'd like to point couple of facts ...
The main excuse and justification used by Bush N Blair to go for this war was the WMDs Saddam's regiem was claimed to have, based on fabricated intelegence reports and so ... I'm still wondering why couldn't they fabricate captured WMDs in Iraq too , now that they're already there and in full control ... It would have looked a little nicer , wouldn't it !!

Now UK's foriegn minister says that Saddam would have stayed in power if he showed cooperation like Lybian leader, so it's not about the brutality of the regiem then , yeah?
It's the goddamn $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

One thing you guys won't understand , which is the downfall of the words Western "Occupation" & "colonialism" on arab ears ... The middle east suffered (and still is) from western colonialism for centuries (about two milleniums for separate periods ) .
That's why I highly doubt that the Iraqi resistance would stop before the occupying forces leave .

Originally posted by PonyOne
Personally I believe that Palestine has no right to exist as its own nation.

I know this is off topic , and I know you don't want to talk about it here (specialy with me) , and neither do I , but I just wanted to say a short comment this statement (which is racist and offensive IMHO) .

As long as guys like you think this way , it's hard to imagine any kind of peace on this goddamn piece of land.

Racist? I'd hardly call what he said "racist." Call it offensive if you want, but what Pony One said was in no way racist. Palestine was a nomadic tribe before Israel was made into a nation, so technically the Palestinians never claimed any sort of permanent residence there. The Palestinians have no right to that land. I'm not saying this to be "racist" they really have no right.

I find it puzzling that the Palestinians are neither welcomed, nor granted citizenship by any of the Arab nations, yet they are constantly used by those same Arab nations as an example of Israeli evil.

Please, SLY, name me one Arab country that grants full citizenship rights to Jews!

Israel has a significant population of Arabs who enjoy full citizenship rights. And I have never heard of Arabs who live in Israel mounting suicide attacks on Jewish citizens, yet it seems to be a daily occurance that Palestinians decide to invade Jewish civilian areas, armed with bombs and homicidal/suicidal intent. Please explain this. I cannot understand how it is that one Arab population can be so horribly deranged while another is quite content, unless the Palestinian leadership is poisoned with unreasoning hatred.

Please consider your answer carefully. I am sufficiently removed from the situation that I do not believe the 'accepted truths' of either side.

PonyOne. I’d have to agree with a lot of the stuff you said. The media is just showing people what they want to see and they just want ratings and viewers, to achieve this they show murders, robberies and terrorists attacks, scaring the people into thinking that no one’s safe. No one can escape the constant terrorist threat. Bar up the windows and lock your doors.

Yes. Many Americans are intelligent and smart and could see through the media and president’s lies. Many would know were the UK is and Australia. So yes. The show CNNNN did just show the stupid answers to get a laugh but even 20 out of 100 not knowing where even the UK is, is far too many.

There are stupid people everywhere and there are some EXTREMELY stupid people that I know, here in Australia. One believed that elephants shed their skin, wasn’t certain if she was albino or not and thought her horse could travel 1km in 3 seconds. She obviously got laughed at a lot, like the Americans on the show, but she still knows where America, UK and Iraq are (not implying that all Aussies know where they are).

I wrote what I wrote because I was pissed off. At what, I don’t know. Perhaps it is because Australia is becoming too much like America so much to the point that even what Australia sees itself as is false. The fit, bronzed Aussie is now the fat, lazy Aussie with Australia now second behind USA as the fattest nation.

But what you said about the Palestinians doesn’t fit. America has over 70 murders a day and over 220 millions guns but the Palestinians sicken you.

I still believe America should set an example as the ‘responsible parent’, being the only super power and deciding who’s good and who’s bad in the world, by destroying their own nuclear weapons.

I see your point, however, America isn't an unstable nation that is actually going to use her nuclear weapons, and until such nations get rid of their nuclear weapons, America will have to keep hers. What's funny though is that the world's most stupid people all live in the world's richest countries. This is due to the fact that in an undeveloped country, you have to be very intelligent to survive. In a developed country not so much. By the way, I actually do know an American who would not be able to tell you that the map labels were wrong even if the countries labeled incorrectly were America and Canada. It's not that Americans are stupid, it's that stupid people are stupid, and some of them live in America.

Originally posted by Jolly McJollyson
Palestine was a nomadic tribe before Israel was made into a nation, so technically the Palestinians never claimed any sort of permanent residence there.

The whole middle east consisted (and still is in some parts) of nomadic tribes along with cities and villages , and so is lots of african nations .
Using that as an excuse to throw those people away , and replace them with people from everywhere (with a specific ethnicity,race or religion) is apparently racist.
Denying those people's right to exist on the land where they were born , and so was their grand grand parents for centuries is also significantly racist.
Denying the right of refugees to come back to their homes , fearing that this would change the demography of Jews as the vast majority in Israel is ...hmmm... what do you think ?! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Lordathestrings
I find it puzzling that the Palestinians are neither welcomed, nor granted citizenship by any of the Arab nations, yet they are constantly used by those same Arab nations as an example of Israeli evil.

It's agreed amongst arabs (namely palestinians themselves) , not to offer palestinians any other nationality , to reserve their national identy active forever as Palestinians , and support their case against Israel , hoping that someday they'll get their rights of their land back.

However , lots of Palestinians live in arab countries , enjoying stuff like financialy aided educations and so , but without been given the full citizenship of that country for the reason I've just mentioned above.

Please, SLY, name me one Arab country that grants full citizenship rights to Jews!

All of them !!!
Since the dawn of civilization till the establishment of their state on an arab land .
If you compared the life of Jews in the whole world to their life in arab nations you'll know what I mean.
I can give you examples of famous Jewish actors, singers, buisness men etc. from my own country -egypt- if you'd like.(I'm talking about pre-israel history of course)

Israel has a significant population of Arabs who enjoy full citizenship rights. And I have never heard of Arabs who live in Israel mounting suicide attacks on Jewish citizens, yet it seems to be a daily occurance that Palestinians decide to invade Jewish civilian areas, armed with bombs and homicidal/suicidal intent. Please explain this. I cannot understand how it is that one Arab population can be so horribly deranged while another is quite content, unless the Palestinian leadership is poisoned with unreasoning hatred.

It's very reasonable and it doesn't have anything to do with the leaders , it's the people.
You go occupy a land , and lands around it , destroy the houses and throw the people away, to establish silly settelment compounds for Jewish people who just arrived from the other side of the planet .... Why don't you imagine yourself in their place for a sec ?

Oops , I didn't mention random firing at civilian compounds , using everything from guns to F16's , Apaches , heavy tanks , etc. which leaves tons of civilians killed and their families sleeping in the streets.

On the other hand , palestinians who are Israeli citizens don't suffer the hellish situations as palestinians who are labeled "refugees" .
If nobody destroyed your house , kill your family member(s) , you don't need to revenge , yeah ?

Can you see how simple is a solution ?
Moamar Qaddafi , the Lybian leader, who non-arguably enjoys a significant amount of stupidity found a solution !!
Which is as simple as allowing the refugees back , and making one country for both people !
BTW, he called the new country "Isratine" ! :D LOL

Please consider your answer carefully. I am sufficiently removed from the situation that I do not believe the 'accepted truths' of either side.

"accepted truths" ???
You mean like "the promised land" holy crap ?! :rolleyes:
As you can see , I never looked at that conflict from a religious point of view , because I believe that if everybody thought too much religion , it's hard to imagine living together in peace.

I like to look at it from a humanitarian point of view , like this :
People with the same regligious believe from all around the world decided to takeover a piece of land from their current owners to satisfy their religious myths.
The western society had been very evil and brutal to those people , and commited so many horrible crimes against them ... After WW2 finished , the west felt guilty , so in order to pay the debt & make it up to the People , they decide to help them achieve their religious myths of the so called "promised land".
The People go buy portions of that land , occupy the rest of it by force , turning the folks who lived there into refugees.
Unlike the Western societies , Arab societies never did anything wrong to those People , so they don't feel guilty or in debt to those People ... As a matter of fact , those People were handed a piece of the arab land from another western colonialist occupier whom should have handed it to the arabs as the rest of the occupied territories.
And so , the never ending crap continues.

Don't you agree that I should consider writing short stories for children ? :p

Originally posted by PonyOne
But in any case, how is it that I am being racist? And as was touched on, the Palestinians only really came under the blanket term of the "Palestinians" after the 1967 war. Prior to that, they were what they basically are: nomadic and seminomadic Jordanians, Syrians and Lebanese. And the honest to God truth is that they are just as if not more victimized by the leading Arab "brothers" in those nations, who more or less use them as pawns in a game to keep their own peoples' minds off their own oppression and unfair societies.

First off , I didn't mean to call you personally racist at all ... In the same post you said that you regret the loss of palestinian life as you do to any other life lost... I deeply respect that.
I said that the statement of not believing in a people's right to have their own nation (specialy a nation that was taken away from them by force) is racist against those people.

Dude , I have newspaper covers back from 1948 ... The headlines says "Zionists Capture Palestine" .
The Ideology of denying the existance of palestinians , and trying to do change everything on the land to erase any traces of their existance is racist ... It's more or less of a genocide.
The term "Palestinians" can be found in many arab historic books, that were written and printed centuries ago !

To state all the historic facts , terms as Syrians,Lebanese , Palestinians , etc. weren't commonly used to describe people , since it was one big arab nation ... Those divisions are the traces of british colonialism.
It's reasonable from you to say that Palestinians are just jordanian,lebanese & syrian nomads , because I'm deadsure that if it was Syria you'd say Syrians are just nomadic Palestinians,lebanese etc.

There were very few "homelands" that the Israelis took; there was a lot more desolate, unused, moderately forboding land that the Jews put irragation into and turned into useable agricultural land, that Palestinians later cried "theft" over...

Very "Few" ?? Few what , few hundreds of thousands?!

About the unused lands , most of the arab lands are deserts ... Is that an excuse for you to occupy any of them ?
What about Australia , there are loads of square kilometers of unused lands ... Why wasn't the Jewish state established over there , considering that you're both western communities, which guarantees minimal traditional conflicting.

how can peace ever exist in that region when there are people who refuse to listen to reason, and instead get hot headed, act rashly & call one another names who run rampant...?

Can I ask you a simple question ?
Before 1948 , wan't it hell lot more peacefull , inspite of the British colonialism.

BTW - Merry Christmas, Folks..

SLY: few hundreds of jews were killed before the 1948 war. You say PonyOne is racist because he denies the existance of the palestinian nation BUT you are the one who kept on calling jews "People with same religious believe" which is , to me, denial of the existance of the jewish nation so if ponyone is a racist, you are one as well..

Originally posted by Zeppelin
BUT you are the one who kept on calling jews "People with same religious believe" which is , to me, denial of the existance of the jewish nation so if ponyone is a racist, you are one as well..

I didn't mean it that way at all , I just tried to make it sound like an innocent childish story.
If you read my posts , you'll find me mentioning Jews, Israel a lot ... It's just in your mind that you want to call me racist , if it makes you happier , say it again , but you're sure that I can be anything but that.

Nobody ever denied the existance of Jews , but Israel denies the existance of Palestinians ... Even more , Israel keep on destroying houses in occupied territories to replace them with Jewish settlers , and change the state of that land , or virtually erasing palestinian existance , then you claim that the term "Palestinians" never existed before '67 .
Who denies whom , and who's the racist ?

Originally posted by Azrael
BTW - Merry Christmas, Folks..

Yeah, seriously, let's put it aside for now. We'll all hold our own beliefs on the Israeli nation situation (heh, I should be a rapper), we're entitled to that right. Let's just give it a rest for a little while.

Originally posted by SLY

Originally posted by Zeppelin
BUT you are the one who kept on calling jews "People with same religious believe" which is , to me, denial of the existance of the jewish nation so if ponyone is a racist, you are one as well..

I didn't mean it that way at all , I just tried to make it sound like an innocent childish story.
If you read my posts , you'll find me mentioning Jews, Israel a lot ... It's just in your mind that you want to call me racist , if it makes you happier , say it again , but you're sure that I can be anything but that.

Nobody ever denied the existance of Jews , but Israel denies the existance of Palestinians ... Even more , Israel keep on destroying houses in occupied territories to replace them with Jewish settlers , and change the state of that land , or virtually erasing palestinian existance , then you claim that the term "Palestinians" never existed before '67 .
Who denies whom , and who's the racist ?

I never denied the existance of the palestinian nation.
I also believe palestinians should get their own state , and i mean a real one (not one which will be controlled by israel like rabin planned to do back in the 90's) but i think it will never happen because of 2 things:
1 - the israeli settlers and the right winged idiots who are racists indeed
2 - the palestinian leaders who wont be satesfied untill theyll see us (the israelis) swimming with the fish.

anyhow I really want to stop this now, as its going nowhere.
im going to sleep, good night :)

what's with all the arguin? for once i agree with azreal, merry christmas and put everything to the side and drop all of this crap...........geee i didn't know that all of you were politicians i thought you were all musicians