How to play mix guitar and bass volumes.


hunter.kane
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hunter.kane
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08/29/2020 1:52 am

My group has converted to a power trio (we got rid of our drummer as, he keeps skipping practice and our bassist switched to drums and I have switched to bass. My question is how do we have the volume set while playing, I'm afraid that one of use might cancel the other out.

If it helps our guitarist uses a Fender Mustang with P90's, a Fender mustang amp, and a boss ds-1.

I haven't bought my gear yet but I know I am getting a Fender Rumble 500 amp, and my thoughts for a bass were a Danelectro longhorn.

I just would like to know what volumes each amp and guitar should be at, so we don't sound crappy, but just know we like it loud!


# 1
DavesGuitarJourney
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DavesGuitarJourney
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08/29/2020 2:08 am

I suspect that will depend largely on your venue and you guys will have to experiment and learn what works for you.


It takes as long as it takes unless you quit - then it takes forever and you will never get there.

# 2
hunter.kane
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hunter.kane
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08/29/2020 2:15 pm
Originally Posted by: DavesGuitarJourney

I suspect that will depend largely on your venue and you guys will have to experiment and learn what works for you.

We don't actually have enough original materiel to play at venues yet, right now we play in our guitarists garage without any mixers so I just mean where the volumes on the guitar and bass should be to sound best.

# 3
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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08/30/2020 6:45 pm
Originally Posted by: hunter.kane
Originally Posted by: DavesGuitarJourney

I suspect that will depend largely on your venue and you guys will have to experiment and learn what works for you.

We don't actually have enough original materiel to play at venues yet, right now we play in our guitarists garage without any mixers so I just mean where the volumes on the guitar and bass should be to sound best.

There isn't an answer to this, really. Just muddle about until it gels.

Not a satisfactory answer but it all depends on the drummer. Of the drummers I've played with, they all had different velocities when they hit. That translates in to how loud they're playing. And how loud you need to be in order to decide how loud you'll be turning up.

Back in the day, one drummer (and then roomate), was a great drummer and had a hard hit/snap to his playing. He was naturally loud. Another in a band I was in, the drummer didn't hit that hard. It wasn't wimpy and he was a solid drummer but didn't hit with the same power as my roomate. So it depends on how much drummer volume you have to overcome. It's also why there's no real answer.

Just never tell your drummer to play more quietly. They lose their mojo. I've played drums for a few years and was in a situation where I needed to play more softly and it's not the same.

However, one thing you should be very much aware of; the importance of the bass in the 'mix'. Granted, there's no actual mixers for you but rock bands often make the mistake of dialing down the bass and the sound suffers. Particularly if you're a three piece at this point, you need all the body you can get.

So, no actual answer but just some thoughts from past experiences.


# 4
William MG
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William MG
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08/30/2020 8:49 pm

Glad Jeff posted this, good advice here Hunter.

From my own experience working with young people from 12 and up, the drummer is always the wild card. I remember a set up with my son's bands and I could not keep the drummer consistent. So I got smart and asked him to play as hard as he could and set the rest of the stage off that. Not to be critical, but 12 and 13 year old drummers are still working on motor skills and can be up and down. And it is not only 12 year olds...

Anyway, good luck.


This year the diet is definitely gonna stick!

# 5
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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08/30/2020 8:56 pm
Originally Posted by: hunter.kane

I just would like to know what volumes each amp and guitar should be at, so we don't sound crappy, but just know we like it loud!

I'm seconding advice! You'll have to experiment & use the drums as a threshold standard.

Because the drums are acoustic you'll have to use your drummer's playing as the base line.

That's why guitarists discuss small amps (like combos) in terms of "keeping up with a drummer".

Another factor is vocals. If you intended to have vocals, then you'll have to factor in having a PA & vocal mics at minimum. You should also consider getting monitors. In some smaller performance situations & rehearsal spaces you can get away with using a small PA with a head & 2 speaker cabs as the sound reinforcement & monitor.

I'd encourage you to try to set the guitar & bass amps at just loud enough to be heard clearly with the drummer playing at full volume. Otherwise you frustrate or encourage the drummer to play louder than he should. Then everyone wants to be louder than everyone else just to be heard!

It helps if everyone is on board with the idea of using dynamics. For the drummer to know how to play quietly, loudly & a few points in between. And for the guitarists to use their voume knobs & playing skills to create dynamic arcs in a song.

Also, in a rehearsal space it's often easy to point all the gear at each other in a circle, on the floor or chair right next to you & then get used to that situation. But that doesn't always translate to a performance situation or space. So, when you are ready to gig you should rehearse how you will perform. Often that means moving things around in a way that you might not be familar with. For example, having gear in a line all pointed in one direction (toward the audience), your amp at a distance from you in the backline by the drums. In short, in a way that makes it difficult to hear everything & that you aren't used to. That's when PAs, monitors & sound personnel become important!

Hope that helps!


Christopher Schlegel
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# 6
Carl King
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Carl King
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08/31/2020 5:55 pm

Hey Hunter --

Here's something to keep in mind...

Back in college I had a band where I decided to play bass and make that the dominant instrument over guitar, and made the guitarist the backup for what I was doing.

1. At some point I learned that bass frequencies don't quite materialize until you are farther away from the amp. I was of course standing right in front of my bass amp, and constantly struggling to get enough low-end. LIttle did I know the bass frequencies were something like 6 feet in front of the amp.

2. Another MAJOR thing with bass tone (and apparent volume of the bass guitar) is that the softer you play your bass, the more low frequency rumble you will get out of it. I was working against that principle by beating the crap out of the strings and STILL wondering why it kept getting less and less low-end / apparent volume. Totally unintuitive.

3. One more major factor in bass guitar volume is the room you're in, and where the amp / cabinet is placed. Bass frequencies are DRASTICALLY different depending on where you stand. So your drummer, for example, might be freaking out that it's going to give him diarrhea if you don't turn down, but you yourself can barely hear it! So "volume settings" on the amp aren't going to tell you any of that. If you're in a corner or smaller room you might get extreme build-ups of low frequencies, or if the walls are made of plaster they will resonate a lot more than brick, etc. All of these things affect the sound in a huge way when you're playing bass!

The truth is you'll all just have to experiment in the room and find something that works for everyone.

One thing I know for sure -- if I ever play in a band again I'll wear my Vic Firth Headphones. I even wear them at loud concerts or any time I'm anywhere near a drummer. Too many years spent in a small room with cymbals...

https://www.amazon.com/Vic-Firth-Stereo-Isolation-Headphones/dp/B0002F519I

They're much easier than putting earplugs in and out when you need to talk to someone or hear the natural sound. Plus, hey, you can plug them into a mixer...

Even after a few minutes of band practice in a garage with no hearing protection, the ability to judge sound volumes and quality is diminished. You'll have temporary (and hopefully not permanent) hearing damage, so any arguments about volume or tone or the mix are going to be difficult.

-Carl.


Carl King[br]GuitarTricks Video Director / Producer

# 7
JeffS65
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JeffS65
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09/01/2020 8:11 pm
Originally Posted by: Carl King

Too many years spent in a small room with cymbals...

Truer words were never said!


# 8

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