How do I practice scales?

Hey I wrote quite a lengthy post a few days ago about the CAGED system. I've gone through various tutorials about both the 3 string pattern and CAGED. I'm feeling overwhelmed with the options out there and want to improve my musicianship and understanding.

So my question is how should I practice scales? Which pattern should I focus on? With regards to CAGED, Im doing an excersise where I pick out the root notes for every form, this is helping me learn the fretboard but I'm really confused as to what to practice....I know some theory from playing piano however I'm the sort of person who needs to have a checklist of things to work through and structure when I practice - I'm really struggling with that.

Thanks

I find this page slightly helpful:

http://www.creativeguitarstudio.com/pdf_docs/how_to_practice_scales/how_to_practice_scales.pdf

Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0Hey I wrote quite a lengthy post a few days ago about the CAGED system.[/quote]

I remember. :)

Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0I've gone through various tutorials about both the 3 string pattern and CAGED. I'm feeling overwhelmed with the options out there and want to improve my musicianship and understanding.

I think at this point it might be helpful to clarify your skill level & your goals. Why are you working on those huge fretboard scale patterns? What do you hope to do with them? How will you apply them to music? What songs are you learning? What songs do you want to learn?

Because the answers to those questions will be absolutely necessary in order to answer your question . . .

[quote=iiiiiii-0]So my question is how should I practice scales?

It depends on what style of music you want to play. Some styles use certain scale patterns more than other. But the physical skill of playing single note lines will always be useful.

The PDF you linked didn't explain how to apply any of that beyond which key to practice on which day. At the end it showed a chord progression & said "practice scales with this chord progression!". But it didn't say how. That's a whole lot of data will no end goal.

At the beginner stage a student is just starting to learn:

1. The physical motions required to play single string melodies.

2. The sound & intervals of the scales as the building blocks of music; essentially aural or ear training.

So guitar students usually start with scales in open positions & just one octave (or so) of a scale in order to achieve the 2 steps above:

1. Build physical skill.

2. Apply those scale patterns to music & understand how scales are used to play melodies & connect chords.

For example, Lisa shows a bunch of open scale patterns in GF 2. If you are able to do those, then you are doing fine to practice them, keep progressing in a course & start learning songs.

You will be ready to learn how to use those patterns to connect chords. For example, like this.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=426

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=427

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=428

What kind of music do you want to play? This will determine how you should practice scales. Often looking at how scales are used in the songs you like will help give you an idea of how to practice them.

If you want to play acoustic styles, then you will want to practice basic major & minor scale patterns as they relate to chords. See the above.

If you want to play country, then Anders does a great job of showing you how to apply scales to song intros, outros & melodies in the country courses.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=24263&s_id=1988

If you want to play blues, then Anders does a great job of showing you how to apply scales in that style in the blues courses.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=14119

If you want to play classical style, then you can learn to apply scales in this way.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=15129

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=15170

So what is your skill level? Are you working through the Guitar Fundamentals courses? Are you beyond those in skill & knowledge level?

The next question is what are your goals? and what kind of music do you want to play?

Hope that helps!

Hey Chis,

Just checking. I started on your inversions lessons which made a lot of sense to me at the beginning but then I got totally lost. I'm assuming that this kind of stuff is only worth dabbling with if I know every note on the fretboard at a glance and the 3 notes that make up very scale by heart? I can figure it out based on the theory and can find the notes, but too slow and painful to really be able to move around. I'm stuck in the middle ground between Lisa being far too basic and your lessons being 2 steps more advanced.

I can tell that you are a great teacher so wondering who's got the lessons that will best help with the middle ground so I can come back to ya and follow 1-3-5 second inversion on the 500th fret....and not have ta pause and count etc.

I know the lessons are in there somewhere mate but it's a minefield after the structured basic lessons.

Cheers

oops...make that every chord...

Once again, thank you for such a comprehensive reply! I took a look at your scale lessons and yes I am able to play these without a problem and aware of 135 to make the chord, different voicings etc. so believe I need something quite a bit more challenging than this.

One of my goals is to comfortably jam with other musicians and play with others and just walk into a jam session and be able to join in. I guess a good marker would be to look at a jazz real book and be able to improvise and play along with others based on the specific chords.

I found Anders Acoustic Guitar level 2 lesson on travis picking challenging to play at full speed with the excersise (https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=29744&s_id=2536) so I guess that gives more of an idea of the level I'm at.

I'd like to be able to play NeoSoul, Blues and Jazz however I also like stuff like Steve Vai 'For The Love of God',Santana and Bluegrass! I'm not really into heavy metal / rock.

I watched an interview with Steve Vai and he mentioned when he was learning he'd make a list and go through it. This is how I like to learn and see most benefits. I like to have structure because without it I really lose motivation. I had structure when learning the positions of the Aminor pentatonic and saw so much benefits by having a practice routine. I'm just not sure what to practice to be honest.

Okay, thanks for the info! I mistakenly thought you're more at the beginner stage because we kept having conversations about how you didn't understand certain aspects of scale patterns.

Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0so believe I need something quite a bit more challenging than this.[/quote]

If you are well past the beginner scale exercises, then you can work toward exploring the entire fretboard with these tutorials. This is how players like Steve Vai can cover & use the entire guitar so effectively. They see the repeated visual patterns & they've practiced using them enough to make it look effortless.

Visualizing Fretboard Scale Patterns Series 1 (Repeating Octaves)

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=11094

Visualizing Fretboard Scale Patterns Series 2 (Major)

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=14128

Visualizing Fretboard Scale Patterns Series 3 (Minor)

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=14138&s_id=899

Visualizing Fretboard Scale Patterns Series 4 (Chromatic)

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=11319&s_id=462

After that you can work on applying those patterns in musical situations with this series on building speed & dexterity required to play lead solos at a high level.

Speedy Ideas Series 1 - Building Speed

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=287

Speedy Ideas Series 2 - Major Scale Pattern

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=928

Speedy Ideas Series 3 - Minor Scale Pattern

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=929

Speedy Ideas Series 4: Advanced Minor Shredding

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=973

Speedy Ideas Series 5: Advanced Major Shredding

https://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=980

[br]

Originally Posted by: iiiiiii-0One of my goals is to comfortably jam with other musicians and play with others and just walk into a jam session and be able to join in. I guess a good marker would be to look at a jazz real book and be able to improvise and play along with others based on the specific chords.

Then you should be practicing improvisation. I have several tutorials on jazz guitar improv. And the first one shows how to use & practice scales & even modes.

Intro To Jazz Lead Guitar

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=21866&s_id=1757

Jazz Blues In B-Flat

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=30254

Jazz Blues In F

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=30367&s_id=2605

Jazz Lead Lines

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=16386&s_id=1205

After you learn the ideas & skills in those tutorials, I encourage you to get a Real Book, or score book of jazz standards & start working through one song at a time.

[quote=iiiiiii-0]I like to have structure because without it I really lose motivation. I had structure when learning the positions of the Aminor pentatonic and saw so much benefits by having a practice routine. I'm just not sure what to practice to be honest.

Hope the above tutorials will give you the structure & path you want. If not, then let me know & we can try something else.

For future reference all my tutorials can be found on my instructor directory.

https://www.guitartricks.com/instructor.php?input=155014

Hope that helps!

Hey, sorry I missed this earlier!

Originally Posted by: jarnac.chambersI started on your inversions lessons which made a lot of sense to me at the beginning but then I got totally lost.[/quote]

Everyone learns a little differently, but in general this is most beneficial path:

1. Open chords

2. Barre chords

3. Learn the notes of the E & A string

4. Name all the E shaped barre chords & A shaped barre chords

Then you will be ready for this tutorial.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=148

Or you can jump into my GF2 course at this point. I start working through the relationship between scales & chords in these 3 tutorials. These often help bridge a lot of gaps in some students knowledge.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=11168&s_id=426

You might already know all that. But I regard it as preparation for going the next tutorial introducting triads & inversions.

https://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=13626&s_id=824

After that you can start to work on identifying the notes on the D & B strings based on your working knowledge of the low E string & A string. Same note letter an octave higher!

Low E to D string: 2 frets up & 2 strings up

D to B string: 3 frets up & 2 strings up

A to G string: 2 frets up & 2 strings up

G to high E string: 3 frets up & 2 strings up

Now this is going to take a long time. :) So just pace yourself. You don't have to know which notes you are playing right away in order to play the shapes to get used to them. This is especially important when you realize there are 2 steps involved.

1. Learning & knowing the notes of the fretboard.

2. The physical skill required to play all the triads & inversions in time with music.

Gradually, if you keep working on it a little every day, you will be able to put all that knowledge & skill together!

Originally Posted by: jarnac.chambersI'm assuming that this kind of stuff is only worth dabbling with if I know every note on the fretboard at a glance and the 3 notes that make up very scale by heart?

Good question. Not necessarily. And as I've outlined above you can still work on the physical skills while you are gradually learning the notes.

[quote=jarnac.chambers]I'm stuck in the middle ground between Lisa being far too basic and your lessons being 2 steps more advanced.

Hopefully the path I outlined above will help you. If not, please let me know & we can try something else! Hope that helps. Best of success!

Thanks Chris. I guess where I'm falling down is not being able to quickly id the notes required for the inversions on any given chord so when it starts moving up the fretboard I just get left behind. I'm reasonably fluid in the fingering so I guess I'm just looking for patterns and tricks and being lazy! Back to scales and note rotes for a bit I guess and then hopefully 135, 351 etc will be easier to find for me. Cheers for answering. Really appreciate your patience with so many questions.

Just for reference, I've done a whole series of tutorials on triads & inversions. Most of them are in this collection.

https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/triads-and-inversions

I should have started by asking which one you've worked on or not. :) I break it down into 3 string groupings specifically because the G to B string tuning throws a monkey wrench into otherwise completely similar shapes. I find that once you get a handle on that G to B string speed bump things become clearer.

Originally Posted by: jarnac.chambersI guess where I'm falling down is not being able to quickly id the notes required for the inversions on any given chord so when it starts moving up the fretboard I just get left behind.[/quote]

Got it. At least if you've got the shapes & fingerings you're on your way!

Originally Posted by: jarnac.chambersI'm reasonably fluid in the fingering so I guess I'm just looking for patterns and tricks and being lazy!

Ha! Looking for patterns & tricks can be helpful. But sometimes it just comes down to brute memorization. Especially with the notes.

But you can practice smarter. That why for example I mention barre chords as a pre-requisite. Because if you already know them you can leverage a lot from them by observing that most of the small triad shapes are actually contained in them. And once you know the root notes of the the E & A string barre chords, then you've got half the strings memorized (high & low E & A)! The octave of the roots of the barre chords is right in the pattern, so that's 2 more strings (D & G). Then you've just got that tricky B string left.

[quote=jarnac.chambers]Back to scales and note rotes for a bit I guess and then hopefully 135, 351 etc will be easier to find for me. Cheers for answering. Really appreciate your patience with so many questions.

That's the ticket! You're welcome for the replies. I'm sorry to have missed your first one initially. I love to discuss this stuff with serious guitar learners. :)

I've been through most of the inversions lessons. On the lesson 2 introduction I totally got it until the end when you ripped down the fretboard on the higher strings. Lesson started at a root on 5th fret so if I move along 2 frets will same pattern apply down to 3rd string? (B chord obviously). I think what missing for me was you really explained moving the inversions across the strings really well (octaves) but then raced it down the fretboard as a quick ending to the lesson. I reckon I'll figure it out, and abandoned caged based on your recommendations to focus on this instead but a couple of the lessons finish just before the switch goes off. Cheers guru🤔

Originally Posted by: jarnac.chambersI've been through most of the inversions lessons. On the lesson 2 introduction I totally got it until the end when you ripped down the fretboard on the higher strings.[/quote]

When you say "lesson 2 introduction" I'm guessing you mean the tutorial that is merely an introduction to the concept.

I really dig deep & go slowly through all possible triads & inversions in the later tutorials. If you click on the tutorial collection link you will see a series of 8 tutorials titled "Practicing Major ..." Practicing Minor ..."

Those go slowly & systematically through all of them! And you will get a lot of backing track play along practice included.

https://www.guitartricks.com/collection/triads-and-inversions

Originally Posted by: jarnac.chambersLesson started at a root on 5th fret so if I move along 2 frets will same pattern apply down to 3rd string? (B chord obviously).

Yes, all patterns move chromatically & systematically up & down the fretboard. That's why learning the root notes of the barre chords on the E & A strings is essential. Good question!

[quote=jarnac.chambers]I think what missing for me was you really explained moving the inversions across the strings really well (octaves) but then raced it down the fretboard as a quick ending to the lesson.

That because it's just an introduction to the idea. Some of those lessons were designed just to show beginners what is possible, why there are so many frets on the guitar beyond the open basic chords!

Check out those in depth tutorials. :)

Brilliant. Thanks Chris. It all just clicked 10 minutes after my last post so stoked and practicing theory is much more enjoyable than I ever thought. Been playing songs organ grinder style for 20 years and finally decided I'd better learn how to play by ear. Great stuff Thanks. I'll go through your whole series and stop looking for miracle cures✊

Originally Posted by: jarnac.chambersIt all just clicked 10 minutes after my last post so stoked and practicing theory is much more enjoyable than I ever thought.[/quote]

Good deal! That's what I like to hear.

[quote=jarnac.chambers]Been playing songs organ grinder style for 20 years and finally decided I'd better learn how to play by ear. Great stuff Thanks. I'll go through your whole series and stop looking for miracle cures✊

Excellent. Triads & inversions really open up the fretboard & make your playing more musical. Enjoy!