Pickin from elbow

I´ve heard some different stories about pickin´ fast from elbow and not the wrist. Some say it´s dangerous some say it´s OK. I pick from elbow and for me that´s the only way to get speed. I usualy pick from the wrist while playn´ slow and rythm but when it comes to shred, it´s elbow 100%.

What do you guys think about pickin´ fast from elbow. Is it dangerous our not?

I think that kind of movement might result in R.S.I. sooner than picking from the wrist.
The movement is bigger, so, the strain on the muscles is bigger too.(correct me if I'm horribly wrong on this)

Of course, there are players who play in "unorthodox" ways, and they never end up injured. But I've found out the hard way that minimalizing your movements is a good thing.

I rarely do the elbow movement for picking, unless I'm jamming with some chords may be, but it's very unlikely to me for shredding...

I believe that the main theory behind speed, is to play every thing with the least amount of movement/energy , so it's like saving your energy for higher speed...

Take a look at Malmsteen picking and over all playing style, he usualy looks as if he's not making any effort to shred, and usualy he uses finger movement for picking, rarely uses his wrist,and never uses his elbow...Also Michale Angelo play almost the same way.

I'm not very good at medical science to tell wether the elbow picking is dangerous or not, but i think if it doesn't hurt then it's ok.

But when I pick fast from the elbow, I don´t feel the pain and I feel more relaxed when playn´ forexample 16-notes at 220 than at 150. It´s never that I get tyred. All I need after lets say 30 sec of very fast shreding 10 sec. rest to be able to play it even faster and it seems like my elbow dosen´t mind but I´m a little bit worried what will happend in 3 years if I count. to pick my way wich is by now the only way.

I´m pretty sure that Steve Morse and Zakk Wylde are pickin´ from elbow and even John Petrucci somtimes when it comes to really high speed. You can see that especially on Scenes From NY video. There are probably more.

Hmmm, donno ,but I've noticed from the videos I've seen that petrucci uses his wrist for movement while shredding, I haven't seen the Scenes From NY video...

Anyway , is it comfortable to mute while using your elbow for picking?

Very comfortable. I find muting very important when playng fast runs and of course while playng rythm. I actually wanted to change my Epiphone guitar for an Ibanez RG 550 but since I couldn´t on Ibanez I decided to let it go. I´m really satisfied on my guitar but a whammy bar would be nice.

But like I said, I don´t feel no pain when picking from the elbow but I´m a little bit afraid (if it´s dangerous of course) what will happend in few years. A injury is the last thing I want and all I want is play guitar.

I´ve tried but only for few minutes and it seems like mission impossible. The speed and muting at high speed seems to be gone. I know that big movements mean less control but in my case I don think so. Here´s why:

First of all, I don´t hold my pick like most players do. They hold it between thum and point finger but I hold it between my thumb and my long finger. While picking I strech out my point finger and my ring finger so it looks like heavy metal salute (you know point finger and ring finger up).

Than when I play medium speed licks like 16-notes classic patterns a la crossroads duel, at 140 bpm, I kind of mix wrist with elbow. I feel some tension than in my arm (no pain at all) but it´s just that as longer I play I get more tyred. And after perhaps 30 sec. of playn´ stuff like that, I need at least 10-20 sec. rest to be able to play same thing again.

But than when I move on to 16-notes at 250 a la bumblebee, that one is also aprox 30 sec. but it´s much easyer for me. It goes almost at double tempo (same good old 16-notes) but it´s much easyer for my pick hand. Same thing goes with triplets (three note per string paterns) wich I love most of all a la Metropolis guitar/keyboard fast triplet part, again very easy for my pick hand.

When it comes to control, I think my is good. Reason is string skipping. I mean you must have pretty good control to skip from e to E and than back to A our somthing like that. It´s very easy for me and I can get it pretty fast. Same thing is when playng 3 note per strings and run it down from E to e and vice versa. So, yeah I got pretty big movement (but I think that Jason Beckers movment seems bigger) but there´s no problem with the control at all.

Only thing I vorry about is the eventual injury. But If I would start to feel pain in my elbow, than might I´ll change to wrist but so far is good. Actually grat and I hope that it´ll remain that way.

in my advice, switch to the wrist and even to the fingers, cause you could easily develop tendinitis in the elbow. i am no doctor but i know that much. it may seem difficult to change your ways of playing, but in the long run it will be better. and besides if you are getting tired so easily, to the point where you need a rest, then you know you have got to be doing something wrong.

basically i would STRONGLY suggest changing your playing. if your sound suffers for a month or so, i think it would be worth it.

jesse sutton (canada kicks ass)

I use finger movement for normal tempo shredding, but when it goes realy fast I use my wrist for it...

I've found out that Michael Angelo & Malmsteen pick with the same style too... most others mainly uses wrist, but finger movement at normal or slow tempo is realy comfortable & makes a lot more controle of your over all playing, although it's hard to learn at the begining.

But, can you play some arpeggios patterns (pick them with pick of course), let´s say 16-notes at 140 bpm for about 30 sec whitout feeling any tension in your right arm?

PS. Have you tryed Bucketheads Big Sour Moon. Man that´s hard and it´s a killer for my pickin´ hand but than again all I need is a little rest for about 30 sec to play the song all over again. But funny thing is that I can shred like Flight Of A Bumblebee at 250 bpm (all 16-notes), and feel much less tired (almost not at all) than playn´ some 16-notes arpegios at 140 Bpm.

But if I would change my pick technique and start pickin´ from my wrist, how hard is it and how long time would it take. Also, would I gain same speed as I have now. You guys who done this transformation, can you describe it a little.

I've changed my picking technique a couple of times over the years. Now I'm at a point that I can pick however I want, whenever I want.
Sure, it takes some time(couple of days to get used to it, couple of weeks to get up to speed), but it has always been for the better.
Obviously, you can not pick 6-string arpeggios from the wrist or fingers alone, there has to be some elbow movement. But the overall thought I put in my picking is minimalizing my movements as much as possible. For example, when picking on one string, it's a movement coming from the fingers only. When jumping between 2 or 3 strings, it's wrist and fingers. Strumming chords and sweeped arpeggios come from the elbow and wrist.

Like I said in a previous post, I found out the hard way I had to change my technique. Not being able to play guitar cause your arm just doesn't want to anymore sucks big time.
Anyway, if you're totally comfortable the way you play now, and don't want to put any effort into changing your technique, or even just trying, then don't change a thing. Your body will tell you if you're doing something wrong sooner or later. But as you say yourself, you sometimes have to take breaks cause your arm is tired. If you keep straining your arm like that, sooner or later you probably will end up injured.(RSI and carpel tunnel syndrome are not uncommon amongst musicians)
Either your technique is wrong, or, your body just isn't trained for it.

actually it is possible to sweep six strings with only wrist and fingers, but its easiest if you have big ass hands like me.

but yes, carpal tunnel syndrome is the other one i was thinking of, besides tendinitis. i heard something about jimmy page and that he has something like that, cause he played with more of his elbow for a few years.

anyways, yeah i would change it, (as i already have done), and yes, i think more speed can be accomplished by changing it to your fingers and/or wrist. it worked for me. oh and yes, the accuracy and overall feel will improve dramatically with the least amount of technique, especially on the slow meaningful things...IMO.

jesse sutton (canada kicks ass)

I just don´t get it how the hell to pick from my wrist. First of all how should I hold the pick, between wich fingers.

Can tendonitis our those other injuries go away or are they permanent and if they can be cured, how and how long time does it take? Also, if I would get a injury, would it be to late to change my pickin´ technique and pick from the wrist our fingers?

These injuries do heal, but they are a bitch. It hurts, and it takes a long time. It's always better to prevent than to heal.
Why do you think professional athletes spend so much time on perfecting their techniques? Not only to get better results, but also to avoid injury. And even then they don't last very long.
Hell, your arms can even get ****ed up from using a mouse and keyboard.(this in combination with playing guitar is no good at all)

How to hold your pick? However you prefer. I think between thumb and index is the most used way.

Anyway, changing technique isn't that big of a deal. It's easy. The human mind is very flexable, and can get used to change very easily. Humans just do whatever is most easy.

Yeah man but my mind seems so f*ucked up. I´ve tried today (but thana what the hell) I´ve tried it only for 5 min. and noticed that I somtimes play from my wrist actaully. But it´s just on slow stuff and to gain some speed from the wrist seems impossoble. I mean man should at least get a felling like, well this might work but my senses tells me no way dud, get back to your good old elbow.

PS. Is it normal to get tyred (even a little bit) after playn´ some fast stuff for ´bout 30 sec.

Originally posted by Dejan Sajinovic
I´ve tried it only for 5 min.

There's your problem.

Go to http://www.blacklabelsociety.com and on the menu click on multimedia. Than, find a link calle Guitar.com lesson with Zakk Wylde and study his pickin´ technique and tell me what you think about that. It seems like his using mostly his elbow ´cause I can´t see no wrist movement at all.

God, just keep picking from the friggin' elbow! ;) Nobody here is a psychic(that I know of), so, you'll have to find out yourself if you're gonna end up injured.
You obviously feel that changing your technique is too much of an effort, so, maybe in your case it doesn't really matter? You decide.

It's only logic that movements that introduce less stress to muscles will be less likely to cause injury. This is more or less a fact, and none of us onhere can decide what will be best for you. If you really want to know, I suggest you consult a physical therapist.

As soon I start felin´ pain, I´ll think about change to a new technique our contacting a doc for the cure, but right now f*uck it, I´ll pick on as far it goes (hopefully all they way).

The reason I started this thread was ´cause of Jonzter (a member on the site) who wrote that his elbow was fu*cked up so he had to change his technique and now play with wrist I think.

Dude,

All your picking should be coming from the wrist dude, especially if you want to shred. It's all about relaxing the right muscles in your arm and having them in shape in the first place. Hence why you see most guitarists on stage built pretty well. Yea all the bad ass famous guitar players use their wrists, while doing chords it's understandable to use your elbow to bring your hand across all the strings in an exaggerated motion. Though when shredding the whole deal with playing fast is to economize on all forms of movment and not having to move very far, your wrist should do all the work for the picking, as for moving your hand into a workable position say you need to from the high E to the low E you can use your elbow to bring your hand up to the necessary position. This is all based off what i have learned from a few books and my own experience so use it if you find it might help.