Define the word sell-out?

unfortunatley few of my favorite musicians became sell-outs..
im talking about jimmy page and deep purple as a whole..
Jimmy page is a sell out because instead of recording new stuff or retiring he is doing silly things with all the toy rapers and limp bizkit. i feel that he sells himself for some money and i think it is realy realy sad that he does it , no matter what are his reasons for doing that.
About deep purple: well as a band they are great players and everything, but jon lord (who has quit the band recentley): "we dont go to the studio everytime because we like it that much. We have to earn money"
The band now plays sucky music and ian gillan cant sing no more.
They all hate ritchie blackmore and everything but he is the only musician in the whole world who'll never be a sell out. When he found out he cant do anything new and good in rock anymore, he started to play all the briton based dark ages music, which is not as good as a "real" classical music but you can realy feel they guy cares about only one thing : playing only the things he wants to play..

I'll admit to buying clothes with the names and logos of bands I like, but I feel its a good way of showing people what I'm into...its kind of a part of who I am, but i've always thought these things were made more for the sake of companies wanting to cash in on succesful bands. Sure the bands get some cash in their pockets but whats on the market is really there to manipulate fans into emptying their walets....I'm very guilty of it, but hell if bands didnt make money music would have a hard time surviving coz there arent many out there these days who are prepared to take up a career in it for free.

Take that example of Blackmore.....he can afford to do what he wants now. I doubt that when he was starting out he would have turned down money for the sake of playing exactly what he wanted to. He was one of the lucky ones who could do that and make money at the same time.

Maybe i'm simply biassed because I work in retail and I have to think like a businessman and then I go home and think like a musician....the two can get mixed up.

Originally posted by educatedfilm
...about relationships...if musicains need to make money, there are plenty of ways to make it out side the main stream.

What is wrong with the mainstream?
Why the requirement to be outside the mainstream?
And what is wrong with talking about relationships?
The way Pony puts it(Joseph,apparently here is another above-average bear,I think)has a point,about doing things to widen your appeal,as opposed to the things you do widening your appeal.
But then again,some things people do,they do it for money.Including having that uniqueness to themselves.When a band is all unsocially fit and all that(crap,I might add),they may be very well hoping to use that image to sell.Then when they make the money and all,and no longer need to put on that rude-boy facade,you say they sold out.They didn't sell out;they never were shareholders.See what Pony says about some band having the impact that suddenly every kid has a head problem,socila problem,blah blah blah?Bands know that too.Record companies know that too.They exploit it.
And don't forget this;people change.Not sell out.Change.if you're 25,I'm willing to bet your thought process is very different than when you were 17.If some change in the persons in a band results in their music changing,it doesn't necessarily mean they sold out.Maybe they did.But not necessarily.

Now I really didn't mean to double post,but you people better read that thread started by a guy called hack,titled selling out part two or something to that effect.It has some bit of news you might want to hear about.

I wanna marry her sister. Now... You know my e-mail adress... :D

I think "selling out" is when you do something beneath your capabilities just for the sake of making money.

I don't think Satch trying to copy himself is selling out. I think if Satch started playing like Wes Borland and putting out albums that sound like Limp Bizket just to make money would be considered selling out. An opera singer singing Madonna tunes would in my book be considered selling out.

I think when you sacrafice your artistic integrity just to satisfy the big corprations your selling out. For instance: my friend plays in a rock band that was getting some serious attention from a major label. After a couple of months of this label checking them out they told the band they were really interested in signing them but wanted them to change there feel from rock to country pop, they of course did.

I think as artists were all faced with the dilemma of selling out sometime in our careers. I know even on a local level you can go out and make lots of money playing in wedding bands or top 4o cover bands, the only skill these gigs require is the ability to reproduce other peoples music authentically. Your often faced with performing songs you can't stand just to satisfy the audience (anybody remember the Macerana?). These are issues all artists face an all levels.

Originally posted by chris mood
An opera singer singing Madonna tunes would in my book be considered selling out.

Luciano PAVAROTTI is a sellout? Dude, I gotta burn all his CDs... ;D

And do it Quick !!!!:)