Vai, Malmsteen, or Satraini?
oh yeah, if i had to choose between the 3, it'd be satriani, simply he's got catchy little lines i can use a ring tone... (but he's definetly got my worst album award for "surfing with the what was i thinking when i wrote that tat" album).
# 1
# 2
heheh, lol, that was "life with out biuldings", sigor ros was something i named dropped, and you said you'd heard some stuff before... and didn't like.. heheh, oh wel..
# 3
Not a big shred fan ed? I'm not so much either, I mean, guys like Yngwie and Becker and Gilbert don't really do much for me. It's awesome to listen to sometimes, and to see a video of them playing, but I wouldn't crank it up in my car.
What you said about instrumentals creating "imagery and landscapes" is so true, I feel the same thing. I think that's where shredders like Al Di Meola (ok, he's a jazz guy, but he can shred!), Satch, and Vai stand apart.
Anyways I feel the need to defend my hero :) (I'm being facetious; Steve's not really my hero, more like a source of inspiration). You were pretty harsh on that song! About what you said about needless speed, remember that sometimes guitarists (especially Steve) tend to do things and use techniques not simply for it's harmonic or melodic content but because it creates a sort of "sonic soundscape", where the sheer texture of the playing is more the focus then actual note choice. This can be done in a lot of ways; Steve tends to use tools such as intense speed and extreme use of the whammy to achieve these almost "non musical" elements of music. To me, the use of this type of thing can create just as much imagery as a well placed note can. Here's another example: Here at guitartricks a while back, we had this frequenter named Bofatron Sofasorus (I think his site is shredlikehell.com). Unbelievable speed. The guy developed new techniques and a whole new approach to speed, and the results were unbelievable. Parts in his compositions were so fast that they just sounded like white noise. He explained that the purpose of this "non-musical" playing was not to create pretty melodies or hooks, but to create unique textures within songs that tend take on a musical value all of their own. To really understand what I'm talking about you should probably check out some of his stuff. Anyways, point is, I think if you train your ear to recognize and understand this type of thing it becomes better appreciated.
As for the repetitive thing, well I'm not sure I'd entirely agree that repitition is always necessary to produce something pleasing to the ear, but I agree it can help. For the Love of God really follows the same theme throughout, peppered here and there by variations and punctuated with some of those "sonic soundscapes". So I don't think it's fair to say that in this song Steve is just wandering aimlessly (which I agree some of his stuff is known to do).
I agree the song is pretty extreme and hard to appreciate. It requires a time and place. Oh and don't get me wrong, I'm not infatuated with the song or anything, but I think it's a pretty solid peice of work. Really my favorite Vai song would have to be "Tender Surrender". Get the video and tell me what you think... I'm ready to defend it ;)
oh and sorry you aren't able to do the vocals for the collab thing. Maybe next time? I hope Chris doesn't ask me to make an instrumental out of the track... I'm no Steve Vai ;)
What you said about instrumentals creating "imagery and landscapes" is so true, I feel the same thing. I think that's where shredders like Al Di Meola (ok, he's a jazz guy, but he can shred!), Satch, and Vai stand apart.
Anyways I feel the need to defend my hero :) (I'm being facetious; Steve's not really my hero, more like a source of inspiration). You were pretty harsh on that song! About what you said about needless speed, remember that sometimes guitarists (especially Steve) tend to do things and use techniques not simply for it's harmonic or melodic content but because it creates a sort of "sonic soundscape", where the sheer texture of the playing is more the focus then actual note choice. This can be done in a lot of ways; Steve tends to use tools such as intense speed and extreme use of the whammy to achieve these almost "non musical" elements of music. To me, the use of this type of thing can create just as much imagery as a well placed note can. Here's another example: Here at guitartricks a while back, we had this frequenter named Bofatron Sofasorus (I think his site is shredlikehell.com). Unbelievable speed. The guy developed new techniques and a whole new approach to speed, and the results were unbelievable. Parts in his compositions were so fast that they just sounded like white noise. He explained that the purpose of this "non-musical" playing was not to create pretty melodies or hooks, but to create unique textures within songs that tend take on a musical value all of their own. To really understand what I'm talking about you should probably check out some of his stuff. Anyways, point is, I think if you train your ear to recognize and understand this type of thing it becomes better appreciated.
As for the repetitive thing, well I'm not sure I'd entirely agree that repitition is always necessary to produce something pleasing to the ear, but I agree it can help. For the Love of God really follows the same theme throughout, peppered here and there by variations and punctuated with some of those "sonic soundscapes". So I don't think it's fair to say that in this song Steve is just wandering aimlessly (which I agree some of his stuff is known to do).
I agree the song is pretty extreme and hard to appreciate. It requires a time and place. Oh and don't get me wrong, I'm not infatuated with the song or anything, but I think it's a pretty solid peice of work. Really my favorite Vai song would have to be "Tender Surrender". Get the video and tell me what you think... I'm ready to defend it ;)
oh and sorry you aren't able to do the vocals for the collab thing. Maybe next time? I hope Chris doesn't ask me to make an instrumental out of the track... I'm no Steve Vai ;)
# 4
Originally posted by James
I hope Chris doesn't ask me to make an instrumental out of the track... I'm no Steve Vai ;)
Well, now that you mention it . . .
It's either that or I make it into a techno/industrial track.
As a side note, I think I'm going to scrap everyone that I've never heard from in that group and post some threads on here for some actual contributors. What do you think?
# 5
I think I need to figure out how to get my stuff into a usable format, and then I have to figure out how to get into the *&7@^@!! site!
# 6
lol, dont worry james, I'll try to lay down some vocals next time... I would try here, but there are no mics and no instruments to song along to, to make sure i'm singing in tune...
I'll give tender surrender a try when i get home, but i'm seriously strugelling to aprecaite via and satch... They write some brillaint lines, but do "fill" alot.. I know what your saying about sounds being used in a non melodic context (eg sampling, one of my faviourite tools, also the majority of my bands use "noise" for effect, My bloody valentine are great at this, but a few of poele like cornelius are doing it well today, but they sample water sounds and things like that, rather than making noises with instruments, and why not)..
repition is not VITAL, and can back fire very badly when it's used too much.. but, I dont know, it seems to me that the whole music thing is based on a cluas between; melody, rythem and repition, no matter what genre/ culture / era... and to me, I find it difficult to enjoy piano pieces that go around never really playing anything with rythem... it's difficult to get it, you have to actually have heard the song enough times to know what to expect to enjoy it.. I'm sure some one gets what i'm dribbling on about...
Yeah, I just find it difficult to enjoy "for the love of god", when there are tracks like "found that soul"/ "australia" by the manic street preachers etc etc...
I'm also into putting concept and ideas behind songs, like alot of the sonic youth stuff (but i'm too humain to be postmodern, lol), and not having to write stuff so the average joe can understand it like he understands his glossy magazine, I'll write at the level i feel comfortable at.. and it's not to impress the colledge kids...
I'll give tender surrender a try when i get home, but i'm seriously strugelling to aprecaite via and satch... They write some brillaint lines, but do "fill" alot.. I know what your saying about sounds being used in a non melodic context (eg sampling, one of my faviourite tools, also the majority of my bands use "noise" for effect, My bloody valentine are great at this, but a few of poele like cornelius are doing it well today, but they sample water sounds and things like that, rather than making noises with instruments, and why not)..
repition is not VITAL, and can back fire very badly when it's used too much.. but, I dont know, it seems to me that the whole music thing is based on a cluas between; melody, rythem and repition, no matter what genre/ culture / era... and to me, I find it difficult to enjoy piano pieces that go around never really playing anything with rythem... it's difficult to get it, you have to actually have heard the song enough times to know what to expect to enjoy it.. I'm sure some one gets what i'm dribbling on about...
Yeah, I just find it difficult to enjoy "for the love of god", when there are tracks like "found that soul"/ "australia" by the manic street preachers etc etc...
I'm also into putting concept and ideas behind songs, like alot of the sonic youth stuff (but i'm too humain to be postmodern, lol), and not having to write stuff so the average joe can understand it like he understands his glossy magazine, I'll write at the level i feel comfortable at.. and it's not to impress the colledge kids...
# 7
So much suff about Vai......but its good because its brought his work to my attention for the first time. I've downloaded a few tracks and for those who dont already know it i recommend The Audience is Listening. Dont take it seriously is the main point i'd make about it. First time I heard it I just laughed my ass off. Its a good example of how sometimes is good to write something stupid. I've spent the last week working on a stupid song of my own......but lets not go there just yet......
When i comes to surpassing your teacher I think people who teach usually consider it as a possibiliy. My piano teacher once told me she thought the beginner was more interesting than the master because you could never be sure what a beginner ws going to do or how far they will end up going. I was taught guitar by a friend of mine and had several people tell me I would never be as good as he was. When I told him this he said '**** that, I'm going to make you as good as me.' How I compare to him these days I dont know.....for one reason or another we havent played together for over 2 years. Not that i like to compare myself to anyone else......I think I'm a differet kind of guitarist to my friend now, I went off on metal which he was never a big fan of but I still play the other styles we went over together and I will always have what he taught me. You can always tell a good teacher from the way their student plays.
When i comes to surpassing your teacher I think people who teach usually consider it as a possibiliy. My piano teacher once told me she thought the beginner was more interesting than the master because you could never be sure what a beginner ws going to do or how far they will end up going. I was taught guitar by a friend of mine and had several people tell me I would never be as good as he was. When I told him this he said '**** that, I'm going to make you as good as me.' How I compare to him these days I dont know.....for one reason or another we havent played together for over 2 years. Not that i like to compare myself to anyone else......I think I'm a differet kind of guitarist to my friend now, I went off on metal which he was never a big fan of but I still play the other styles we went over together and I will always have what he taught me. You can always tell a good teacher from the way their student plays.
'There's no such thing as bad weather, there's only the wrong clothes...'
# 8
I think that's the point of the Audience is Listening, just something goofy and fun that makes you laugh (and at the same time makes guitar-philes go "Holy ****!"). It's not really a great example of his best I don't think.
# 9
lol, I've got "the audience is listening".... hold on, I'll put it on now...
The intro was simple, and childish, but i liked it, when he makes his guitar sound like a little kid talking... it's hardly rocket science.. but, it's ok...
1:17, very cool funky little riff.. but if feel really sorry for the guy if this is his idea of "concept" in music... 2:00 cool riff, it's also repeated so credit is awarded, 2:10ish, cool harmony thing...
2:42, i'm not gonna dignify this with a serious comment.
4:26, *cringe*, RIP any respect i had for the guy... lol, it's like he's saying "look at me, I'm like the goddam best, and they thought i'd end up in jail"..
The more i listen to via, the more i dislike the over use of the whammy bar, and why does he avoid feedback? Feed back is great... and there is a world of intresting noise you could use that isn't directly from guitar..
but yeah, the guy cant say that it was cool in the 90's to play like a hack, when he simply hasn't got to grips with songwriting, and putting some ideas and concepts into the music so it doesn't become glossy shallow musicain ship...
lol, this is all my ignorant oppinion, so please dont get upset... as i said it's not really my type of music (although i must thank lalimacefollie, for introducing me to mishoe's music, i'm actaully starting to like it... well some of the funky stuff)..
:)
The intro was simple, and childish, but i liked it, when he makes his guitar sound like a little kid talking... it's hardly rocket science.. but, it's ok...
1:17, very cool funky little riff.. but if feel really sorry for the guy if this is his idea of "concept" in music... 2:00 cool riff, it's also repeated so credit is awarded, 2:10ish, cool harmony thing...
2:42, i'm not gonna dignify this with a serious comment.
4:26, *cringe*, RIP any respect i had for the guy... lol, it's like he's saying "look at me, I'm like the goddam best, and they thought i'd end up in jail"..
The more i listen to via, the more i dislike the over use of the whammy bar, and why does he avoid feedback? Feed back is great... and there is a world of intresting noise you could use that isn't directly from guitar..
but yeah, the guy cant say that it was cool in the 90's to play like a hack, when he simply hasn't got to grips with songwriting, and putting some ideas and concepts into the music so it doesn't become glossy shallow musicain ship...
lol, this is all my ignorant oppinion, so please dont get upset... as i said it's not really my type of music (although i must thank lalimacefollie, for introducing me to mishoe's music, i'm actaully starting to like it... well some of the funky stuff)..
:)
# 10
huuummm... Well, I'm quite amazed that you don't like what VAI does... Try (I hope it's the one that will make you like him) Erotic Nightmares, or maybe his first album Flex able, I personnally love 'little green men'
# 11
# 12
flex able is a quite strange album..
i heard it is a hard to get one too..
anyway flex abe is not that much about music as it about steve vai going crazy..
if you heard it you know what im talking about..
i heard it is a hard to get one too..
anyway flex abe is not that much about music as it about steve vai going crazy..
if you heard it you know what im talking about..
"They think im crazy..
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."
ren hoek
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."
ren hoek
# 13
ok. I've got the 2 you mentioned..
E.N: I didn't really like this, sounds too cheesy for my tastes.. and i really dont like the echo toms in the back ground.. it's too glossy for my tastes... the best thing is the riff at 3:54 ish, but i'm not really a big fan of this...
LGM: this is excellent :D, reminds me of a belgain band, whose name i cant quite recal... and a bit of "the moldy peaches", it's popy and quite silly, it's not deep and it doesn't pretend to be. and I really like the speeded up vocal harmonies, and the guitar part that sounds a little like the voice. I wouldn't have guessed it being steve vai, had i not know the name, it quite carebian sounding at points.
I like the steroe white noise at the begining...
THis is difinetly the best thing i've heard by him so far, and i like it alot... very cool, it's not serious, and doesn't embarasess itself trying to be. I like it alot.
but, as i said shreding isn't really my thing...
Some of my current listening is "legal man" by Belle and sebastain, "international language of screaming" by the superfurrie animals, "Pillow" by capitol K. if you listen to these last two you might understand why it's dificult for me to enjoy stuff like "for the love of god", but love stuff like "little green men", i'm leaning towards silly experimental stuff with more of a pop sensibilty these days (although "legal man" can hardly be called experimental)..
thanks lalimacefollie... *happy now i've found a good steve vai song*
(current listening: hefner, super furrie animals, belle and sebastian, capitol k, cornelius, the pixies, boards of canada, system of a down, the stone roses, iggy pop, pavement, ten benson, gordon giltrap, swerve driver, my bloody valentine, manic street preachers, and grandaddy... i think that's everything for the mo)
[Edited by educatedfilm on 05-10-2002 at 12:52 PM]
E.N: I didn't really like this, sounds too cheesy for my tastes.. and i really dont like the echo toms in the back ground.. it's too glossy for my tastes... the best thing is the riff at 3:54 ish, but i'm not really a big fan of this...
LGM: this is excellent :D, reminds me of a belgain band, whose name i cant quite recal... and a bit of "the moldy peaches", it's popy and quite silly, it's not deep and it doesn't pretend to be. and I really like the speeded up vocal harmonies, and the guitar part that sounds a little like the voice. I wouldn't have guessed it being steve vai, had i not know the name, it quite carebian sounding at points.
I like the steroe white noise at the begining...
THis is difinetly the best thing i've heard by him so far, and i like it alot... very cool, it's not serious, and doesn't embarasess itself trying to be. I like it alot.
but, as i said shreding isn't really my thing...
Some of my current listening is "legal man" by Belle and sebastain, "international language of screaming" by the superfurrie animals, "Pillow" by capitol K. if you listen to these last two you might understand why it's dificult for me to enjoy stuff like "for the love of god", but love stuff like "little green men", i'm leaning towards silly experimental stuff with more of a pop sensibilty these days (although "legal man" can hardly be called experimental)..
thanks lalimacefollie... *happy now i've found a good steve vai song*
(current listening: hefner, super furrie animals, belle and sebastian, capitol k, cornelius, the pixies, boards of canada, system of a down, the stone roses, iggy pop, pavement, ten benson, gordon giltrap, swerve driver, my bloody valentine, manic street preachers, and grandaddy... i think that's everything for the mo)
[Edited by educatedfilm on 05-10-2002 at 12:52 PM]
# 14
I guess that even though Steve's music sounds cheesy, I think that he nevers takes himself too seriously, and flexable is the proof.
Now here's a guy who has enough chops so that he needs a seventh string, that has such a look that he can play the devil's guitarist, and a few years before that he writes 'little green men'? come on!! If you get a chance to listen to 'fire garden', the guy has written some catchy tunes there. I knew little green men would be of your taste... He's still under Zappa's influence in this disc.
Now here's a guy who has enough chops so that he needs a seventh string, that has such a look that he can play the devil's guitarist, and a few years before that he writes 'little green men'? come on!! If you get a chance to listen to 'fire garden', the guy has written some catchy tunes there. I knew little green men would be of your taste... He's still under Zappa's influence in this disc.
# 15
Okay, call me dumb but i cant know everything......what is a whammy bar???
'There's no such thing as bad weather, there's only the wrong clothes...'
# 16
it's the vibrato, or the floyd rose, the thing that allows you to pull down the strings...
# 17
Van Halen :P
Umm, but out of those three, I think Malmsteen.
Umm, but out of those three, I think Malmsteen.
Sometimes I hit notes only dogs can hear.
# 18
Van Halen. :)
But out of those three, I think Malmsteen.
I accidently posted this somewhere else.
But out of those three, I think Malmsteen.
I accidently posted this somewhere else.
Sometimes I hit notes only dogs can hear.
# 19
u people need 2 start looking for new talent one guitar player u ppl would think could shred is mick thomson the lead guitarist from slipknot man i just got a new issue if my guitat player mag and it cam with a c.d. of him 2 prover the world he can shred u ppl need 2 hear that guy wow!!!!!! hes a maniac about classical neo and that he can play well in the mag they are saying he is coming out with a solo album and there saying its going 2 blow vai malmsteen away
# 20
