Vai, Malmsteen, or Satraini?

Hey Rickboy07, welcome to the site. I see that this is your first post, so I'll give you a little word: you might want to get to know some of the people here before you start calling people full of themselves, especially people like Lalimacefolle, who everybody knows, and who, in most people's opinon is NOT full of himself (well, maybe just a little, lol.) ;)
Anyway, you might have been joking, but yet again, we don't know you either, so, anyway, hang around and you'll have fun. If you try to stop making fairly uninformed comments ­ Unless you're Christoph who makes nothing but uninformed comments... ;) (hey, I could get used to this unfair ctriticism thing... he he).

Bardsley, your new sign-off reminds me of an old Quebecois saying that "He who neither belches nor farts, risks explosion".

I just got so hung up on the other thread where Lalimacefolle and I were trading Spinal Tap quotes, that I just had to make it this. In reference to one of their drummers. "Well, he actually exploded... on stage"
"exploded?"
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it's just not that widely reported"

'the only thing that was left of him was a greenish blob'

2 years ago i used to think that satriani was a realy fast player, but today even if i cant play all his tunes i can play major part of them and im not a fast player at all.
About good musician: Well satriani is a good musician, and as we all know an even better guitar teacher but overaly i think vai is the best. His music could be even on mtv, or at least some of it because his melodies are "easy " to listen to and its not completley heavy metal oriented like malmsteen's music..

LOL . . . whatever dude. Without me you wouldn't have a clue what was going on, and everybody would just be a bunch of sheep that agreed with each other all the time. :D

Originally posted by James
Why do you say Satch is the better guitarist? . . . But I have an open mind. What are some of Satch's best songs? I'll give them a listen.

Listen to "Back to Shalla-Bal" off the Flying in a Blue Dream disk. It's one of his simpler songs, but it has a great melody. Listen to "Time" from Crystal Planet or "Cool #9" (not sure which disk).

he he. This is about the level of conversation I can contribute to this thread. But it will be over my dead body that I stop posting in threads where I have no knowledge of the topic. I mean hey, why do you think I moderate theory?

Satch was always my personal favourite becuase i dont think he's always a speed freak - for me he's a player who can achieve a ballance between speed and slowness and he always keeps an individual tone and style.

That said i know very little about Steve Vai....judging from this post i think i should investigate his stuff futher.

Malmsteen.....hmmm *cough* I always admire anyone who can reach that level of speed but I agree, a lot of his stuff i feel is based on Minor scale and arpegio wanking.....his cover of Mr Crowley is a classic example. Randy Rhoads' version had feeling, speed, style and what he did with the solos added to the song......in Malmsteens version.....well, theres only one way to say it: the guy was just ****ing showing off. There was no respect for the song he just filled it full of hundred-mile-an-hour ear-saturtating garbage.

Lol, enough said :)

Hello,

Here's my first post.
Anyone know the book Big Noises by Geoff Nicholson? It has a few pages on some 40 players, including Vai, Satriani and Malmsteen. I quote from the text on Satch:

""If you read any of those glossy American guitar magazines with all the colour pictures of guitars and guitarists you'll find that they take it as a matter of unchallengeable wisdom that Joe Satriani is one of THE great guitarists. And as you thumb through the magazine you'll see Joe's picture staring out at you from all those advertisements where he's endorsing Ibanez guitars, DiMarzio pickups and D'Addario strings, so you know it must be true. As it happens, it very probably is.

Satriani only has one real problem and that is Steve Vai. Now nobody would really deny that Joe Satriani is not as good a guitarist as Steve Vai. And there's no shame in that, few people are. But Satriani would like to be. His music has that same high-tech gloss, that same sub-heavy metal attack, that technical wizardry, that same naff way with a title, only less so. You feel that if Satriani realized all his ambitions and fulfilled his potential he still wouldn't quite be as good as Vai.

His technique, however formidable, is not quite as formidable as Vai's. However impressive Satriani's degree of invention and range of sounds, Vai is more impressive still. And there's an image problem here too. Satriani's cheekbones are high, but they're not as high as Vai's, the dark brooding looks are not nearly as dark and brooding as Vai's. Vai even has a better taste in leather jackets. And whereas Ibanez are prepared to provide Satriani with a special chrome-plated guitar, they're prepared to redesign from scratch a brand new seven-string model for Vai. What must be the worst thing of all for Satriani is that he used to TEACH Steve Vai.

However, despite these odious comparisons, Joe Satriani is his own man and certainly there are times when you'd rather hear him than Steve Vai. His playing, for all its technical virtuosity, is very good at avoiding unnecessary complication. It's not 'fussy'. You wouldn't find Satriani composing a tinkly little tune like Vai's 'Ballerina 12/24' and you couldn't imagine him playing anything quite as silly as 'The Audience Is Listening'.
In three albums I don't think he has come up with a bum track.""

That about sums it up for me..

Welcome Faav, very good first post, keep them coming!!

But I guess that VAI is even a better businessman and advertiser than he is a guitarist...
Why? Well, because he actually makes people believe he's better than Satch. He is considered as the hired gun (whitesnake), the new Van Halen (with the DLR band)the devil's guitarist (movie crossroads), the stunt guitarist (Zappa), the italian virtuoso (Zappa too), the experimental guitarist (Flex-able) and the list could go on...
While Satch only is 'the teacher'... But he has also been the hired gun (deep purple, Alice Cooper) the Alien (Surfin' and not of this Earth) the new Van Halen (Midnight)... Except he must have less panache and excentricity than VAI... And that it's not on every mag's cover...

I think 'great guitarists' are made by the media. I've seen a couple of threads about John PETRUCCI, and the buzz is coming just like it was when VAI became famous (John can play Eruption while playing the yoyo, just like VAI could play the black page at twice the speed... Have you seen the video or the mp3 of any of the 2??). John listens to a guy you might have never heard of, Ron THAL, and he says that his music impresses him!! I know that Ron will never have as much coverage as John, and that saddens me, because Ron is actually changing the way the guitar is played.
John PETRUCCI is a great technician, songwriter, and everything, but just like VAI is... Satch and Ron THAL are innovators, but they'll never get the credit they deserve...

Faav:
Joe Satriani was the man who taught steve vai how to play the guitar. I also think that overaly steve vai is a better guitarist, but according to your posts it is like satriani is some clone of steve vai, while in the reality it is the oposite.. vai maybe not a clone of satriani but satriani is the original version and steve vai is a bit of a rip off..

I don't think we should over emphasize the impact Joe had on teaching Steve. It's not fair to say that Joe "taught" Steve to play the guitar, because as is my understanding, Steve was playing 10 hours a day long before he started jamming with Satch.

When Steve went to Joe's house to learn how to play the guitar, he didn't even know how to put the strings on it!! He was an accordion player though...

james the official steve vai sit says (and its written by steve himself) that he started to take lessons from satriani as soon as he started to play guitar.
i dont know how much did satriani inspire him as a musician but as a player i think he ows it all to satriani
http://www.vai.com/AllAboutSteve/bands.html

hmm... really? I stand corrected. I heard from a friend... well, no matter.

That would be a kick in the pants then (for Joe). Anyways, I think faav's quote hits the nail on the head. Steve out does Joe in every aspect, and his only failure is that he can sometimes go overboard, creating experimental nonsense which leaves our ears crying out for the relatively easy listening Always with Me with You.

However, I said it before, and I'll say it again; get the video of Tender Surrender. To me, it was a religious experience. Maybe it's just me. Steve Vai has set a standard for guitar players, though... I wonder if he'll ever be topped.

I don't think it would be a problem for Satch. I have a friend who is a very good pianist. He will be fantastic in a couple of years, and will be professional etc. He won't be famous (I don't think), but I seriously expect him to become a very respected memeber of the Victorian music scene. His teacher knows this. The teacher is semi-pro, but financially was never able to completely dedicate himself to the piano. He would like nothing more than to see his best student get noticed. Once you teach people, you want them to be as good as possible. Sure, it's a different situation for Satch, because he is still looking for limelight, but imagine how proud you would be of a student that became so well known. I bet when Satch first met Vai and started teaching him he would've gone "wow, this boy is going to be awesome, I better do my best to get him there".

Thanks for your welcome la limace! I like your website.
I'm afraid I must disagree with you when you say Vai makes people believe that he's better than Satch. Unless of course you'd call For the love of God a marketing-trick..

We can just listen to both players' records, (to compare easy they do 'Feed My Frankenstein' :-)) see them on stage (they do G3) and try to copy their playing (almost everything is available in TAB/writing). So we can judge from what we see and hear.

But hey guys, it's not like you have to dislike one when you like the other. I'm a huge Satriani-fan, even played Always with me/you on my wedding!
As for the teaching, I think Bardsley tells the story as it is. Satch is proud of his one time pupil, and Vai takes every opportunity he gets to express his gratitude.
And so he does with Frank Zappa, another major influence on his playing/songwriting.

Thanks for the lead on Ron Thal. I'll check him out.

Originally posted by faav
I'm a huge Satriani-fan, even played Always with me/you on my wedding!

LOL . . . that's awesome. You actually played it, or you had it playing from the disc?

Ever since I discovered Satch (about 5 years ago) I've been a fan. His new albums (Crystal Planet and EOC) were great, and I hope he keeps them coming. When I listen to Satch, I find myself saying "Wow, that sounded cool." Whereas with Vai, more often than not, I say "Wow, how did he do that??" Vai is about more technical, over the top showmanship (like that thing he does with the whammy bar), but Satch is about composition and melody. This is why Satch will always be the better musician.

I must admit, I've been listneing carefully to "for the love of god" (i'm actually listening to it now)...
and i'll be honest, I dont get the fuss... All i can hear is cheesy guitar... with excessive reverb.... too much dive bombing... and the distortion no longer sounds like "manly" distortion...
1:20 to 1:38, I like this bit, but i recognise this... I'm not sure what from, but it sounds like the vocal from an 80's pop song, that i cant put the name to...
on with the song...
that pinched harmonic or whatever, (the high note) at 1:50 is significant, cos it's needless, it doesn't harmonise with anything... it's just tight leather trouser wearing cheese...
1:50 to 1:55.... that's a nice little riff...
on with the song.
2:42 to about 2:46ish, nice little oriental riff, but again decends into cheese clechies..
on with the song
2:52 to 3:11, what the hell is this? It's not fast, it's just a crap usage of the whammy bar, me suspects this is to fill out 20ish seconds of the song
on with the song.
3:21 to 3:30 a very fast nice little riff, I like that... but what's with the rest of that nonesense (he would have been well advised to keep it short and sweet)
on with the song
3:40 to 3:53, *cringe*, why oh why oh why? what's nice or clever about putting a garbelled version of f.o.t.b.b on there? (And why do his riffs always end on very high notes?)
on with the song
3:54 to 4:15, :D, with out a doubt the best thing on that track, just lovely, the guy can write biutiful lines like these... I think i'll get the tab for this..
on with the song
6:06 to 7:15, now that's just crap, he just wants to show he can creat harmonies with delay, and just make noises in general... this pointless mynadering is a big no no.
on with the song
7:24 to 7:34ish, um, what's that all about? yeah it's fast, but what's it trying to do musically... I honestly cannot tell if he's playing this really fsat, or using a delay, because i can hear alot of repeated notes..

On the whole, (18 + 5 + 4 + 9 + 21 = 57 seconds!!!). there are 57 seconds of pleasurable music on this track... WHy the hell didn't he simply loop it to about 2 minutes,keeping short and sweet? 3:54 riff is great, but why surround it with tat, that doesn't biuld up a good atmosphere, or expectation or anything... seriously, shredders have a major problem, it's avoiding repition, which is really how music works (the whole verse chorus verse thing, works well, you dont HAVE to use it, but no repition at all doesn't relly work).. I think he's a great guitarist, just sadly has been trapped in a world of cheese..
I like instramentals, becuase they cunjure up images, and landscapes etc etc, but this doesn't do it... I just see some cheesy music vidoe of a long haired 80's guy with black eye liner, in a leather jacket,and leather trousers, soloing on some mountain... *Cringe*, that's possibly the worst idea for a music vidoe i can think of..
that's all my oppinion, dont take it too seriously, and remember this isn't really my music... personally I'd rather listen to bands like Mission of Burma, the dead kennedies, black flag, rem, Smog, Cornelius, Sigor Ros, iggy pop, soad, can, my bloody valentine, underworld etc etc, i mean all kinds of stuff, that aviods instramentals, tthat have no real structure (i know for the love of god has verse type bit, with the giutar with sitar effect), and are more into musicain ship than music...
I cant believe i acutally, took time to write all this... not like anyone is going to give a flying puck..