which is more important speed or feeling

Originally posted by James
Food for thought: Long before the electric guitar and subsequently the "bend" came into existence, beautiful music was composed that much of the time, was very fast. So are we talking about feeling just in terms as it relates to the guitar, or to music overall? Because who can deny that some of the most emotional peices of classical, flamenco, and jazz music contain very fast passages.

Very good point James
I think Classical years ago would be in its own class.
Also the flamenco style years ago in its own class.
Now years ago with jazz i would say it came more from
the blues.(or from the south Dixie land)
And yes feeling or amotional peices were played in
all the styles of music obove.(With-out Bends)
plus in other styles of music also.(Music overall)
My gripe in the first place was some-one playing a
peice of music reading it from paper useing no emotion
or feel.To me when playing fast or slow music the guitarist can play it with feeling or emotion.
But some don't they take a great peice of music and
just play it like thier reading a book.(With-out emotion)
And it ends up like a bad movie that dosn't move anybody.
Its the same as a Bad actor some actors can show alot of emotion when acting and some can't.


Mark

[Edited by skee1 on 03-05-2002 at 09:16 AM]

I read somewhere that depending on the civilization we live in, we are more inclined to see emotion in melody (pitches and harmony of the notes we play) or rhythm (when we play them) and that article said that if an Afro Cuban listened to Al di Meola, with his very percussive technique, he might just find it really beautiful, just like some western guys love Bach's praelude in C (no rhythm changes, just tension due to harmonic changes)...

Originally posted by lalimacefolle
I read somewhere that depending on the civilization we live in, we are more inclined to see emotion in melody (pitches and harmony of the notes we play) or rhythm (when we play them) and that article said that if an Afro Cuban listened to Al di Meola, with his very percussive technique, he might just find it really beautiful, just like some western guys love Bach's praelude in C (no rhythm changes, just tension due to harmonic changes)...

Al di Meola (Seems his name keeps poping up)
(Here's a little history on Al di Meola from Frets mag:1983)
By the time Al was in his mid teens he was playing country
music.(Al di Meola says below:)
Coping the licks of Doc Watson and the late Clarence white.
I wanted to become the fastest guitarist in the world."he
laughs."That was my goal then;now i haven't thought about it in years.I played bluegrass for a while when i was 14 or
15.Listening to Doc Watson helped deveop my speed i thought
he used a flatpick all the time.Then when i saw him live,
I was astonished! I'd been trying to do with a flatpick things he was doing with fingerpicks."
I actually did learn how to use fingerpicks during an affair with pedal steel guitar that coincided with my country music period.
Reluctantly ,i gave up pedel steel for good after i realized that it was draining energy away from my 6-string
work.It sounded so beautiful 'he says, "and i was becoming
quite good at it.But things were getting so i wasn't even
playing 6-string guitar anymore,and i thought that was stupid after having played it for something like eight years.So i sold the pedal steel .I had to --it was the only
way i could get away from it.

mARK
Also i forgot to mention his guitar teacher started him
out on ventures guitar music plus had him work on
all styles which made him the great guitarist he is today!








[Edited by skee1 on 03-05-2002 at 02:24 PM]

bla bla ya da ya da "play fast or slow, whatever you FEEL like".....master Tzu

like golf, cigars, and cappucino, jazz is a fad of the late 90s-early 00s that will eventually fall back into the obscurity it once enjoyed.
everyone will benefit from this.
-Daniel

I agree there is a lot of "jazz" that is !@#t. I still like Miles Davis and John Mglaughclin, what they did together..at least it had melody. Pat Metheny has some very cool tracks. Jazz is an aquired Taste that I didn't "get" untill I was about 26...I still don't "get" all of it. But then there is alot of music I don't click to,...I know one thing for sure having a form of music forced on you just makes ya wanna puke.

Originally posted by nechako
I still don't "get" all of it.

Jazz is a kind of music that you need to work on to enjoy. I know there's a lot of bull**** in it (20 minutes out solos) but work it from back in the 1900s, then work it up from there. Free Jazz can be understood if you understand where it came from...

i like jazz...

sometimes

when im in a certain mood i can listen to jazz, otherwise its off.

I hate Jazz. Jazz guitar anyway - I love jazz trumpet like Louis Armstrong, Miles Davis etc., I don't like saxophones as a general rule(except for the Born To Run solo) but despite the many exceptions, in general I despise jazz in every form.

Modern jazz especially annoys me. To me it just seems like some lad called "Black Cat" or something silly like that gets up on a stage, plays some sped up blues - with the odd bum note every now and then(not that theres anything wrong with that) - then all the cats in the audience clap their hands(or click their fingers as the case may be), shake their heads in astonishment and say "Brrrrrrrwilliant" in low whispers.

It's so phoney to me.



Just my opinion by the way, but seems to be most people opinion by the look of it.

Maybe I should stay out of this, as someone who studies modern art and as I write ma listening to Coltrane....
You listen to jazz differently than you do most other music. You have to be prepared to give it a go, as it is very easy to write off by listening to some jazz and deciding there is no melody, no easy beat, etc. However, if you do give it a chance, Jazz can be the most rewrding form of music you will ever hear. Sure, certain types of music aren't for everyone; I don't like death metal for instance, but I rarely display the kind of contempt for a style than you have, PonyOne.
You're not going to like free jazz if you don't like any other type of jazz, but at least understand this. The people who are good at it are passionate, they are talented, they do know what they are doing, and to some people it does actually sound good. Sometimes you may be told that jazz asks you to think about the music and understand what is going on. This is true to a degree, but you can like the music without thinking about it. I listen to free jazz because I like how it sounds; I like the chaos, I like the way the instruments interact with one another, I like the feeling of exploration that comes from the music. It's not something I can listen to all the time, a lot of the time I would prefer to put on some U2, or whatever. But good free jazz is not just some con that has tricked people into liking it because they want to seem smart. Like a lot of modern art that you say is a joke (by the way, most of the paintings that you seem to refer to were painted over 50 years ago, it's not exactly a new thing anymore), you have to look for something other than what you are used to in free jazz. It sounds good, but not for the same reasons.

I agree with Bard and lal when in that jazz is most certainly an "acquired taste". I also agree that it can be extremely rewarding if you give it a chance. I haven't had any experience with all the horn based jazzers (or with jazz in general really), but personally I love stuff like Al Di Meola and John McLaughlin (sp?). I guess that this "guitar based jazz" is my cup of tea right now, though hopefully someday I'll give the other stuff a serious effort.

jazz has been around for ever.
jazz will not go away.
but it will fade again - and when it does, all the posers will go away and the real musicians will take over again.
i hate posers.

As you might know in art, some people consider the actual art form as simple... But who started those simple forms? Artist who MASTERED all the styles and techniques existing (Picasso, Dali, etc...)and they created this new form to research new techniques. And people just think, Ok, I'll do some ****, and then sell it, without going through the mastery of the art form. It's the same with music, if you go to free jazz without mastering be bop, blues, swing, then you have no point in playing free jazz!

people are forgeting that jazz in the beggining wasnt that much about pure improvisation.. (example: glen miller band)
I think that classical jazz is a beautiful thing, however today many people think that if you play arrpegios and use different modes then you'll become a jazz player.
another problem with jazz is that most of the people who listen to it, dont have a clue about whats going on in the compostions they listen to. You have to know exactly every single thing which is used in jazz in order to understand it. Thats why many people hate jazz . Thats why i hate 99.9% of the people who like jazz. Its just trendy as hell to be jazz lover and useful to be one if you want people to think that you are smart.
For the same reason i hate modern paintings and all that post modern ****...

yeah but i like jazz - not always - but sometimes

would that mean you HATE me?

Originally posted by Incidents Happen
yeah but i like jazz - not always - but sometimes

would that mean you HATE me?

No.. i dont hate people for loving jazz..
i hate people for loving jazz only because it will make them look smart..
And i gerneraly hate people who invate strange forms of art just to show that they are smart as hell and can understand things that i can. like all those "painters" who draw black triangles or something like that and its supposed to be a genious picture

<i hate people for loving jazz only because it will make them look smart..>>

Exactly baby, I HATE POSERS!
I used to work in an Italian coffee house and people would come in ordering cappucinos and lattes and they didn't even know what they were drinking. geeeeeeeeeeesh. but they sure looked cool when they gagged on espresso, or 'expresso' as they always called it.
Losers.
-Daniel

Permalink

Pony, don't worry, i didn't get offended or anything. You've certainly made some good points, Jazz clubs are filled with people who are posers, and sometimes I wonder who they are posing to - because there aren't that many people who hang around jazz clubs!
That thing about jazz players being more devoted to technique than rock players is right, for most people. A lot of the really cool rock musicians are people who used to be jazz players and so bring a lot of cool ideas to their rock playing. An example is Mitch Mitchell, who I think was an awesome drummer with an absolutely crazy sense of rhythm.

I love to do one thing in jazz jams...

I get on stage, play normal jazz comps (really cool quarter notes voicings, like a very respectful piano player) and when it's my turn to improvise, I play TV themes and shred my ass off...
People don't boo because I'm 6'3 and 300 pounds, but dang, I get a kick out of this...

Originally posted by lalimacefolle
I love to do one thing in jazz jams...

I get on stage, play normal jazz comps (really cool quarter notes voicings, like a very respectful piano player) and when it's my turn to improvise, I play TV themes and shred my ass off...
People don't boo because I'm 6'3 and 300 pounds, but dang, I get a kick out of this...

my guitar teacher does this all the time..
when he improvises on stage he often put in solos from different popular songs..