If your obsessed with speed, your playing will just sound very heartless and boring, but if you incorperate feel, it gives pieces a whole new edge.
You need speed, but I think you need feeling in your playing a bit more.
which is more important speed or feeling
You need feel in your playing, to express the type of song your trying to play. To me, speed is not that important. Sure, speed does show a goodish player, but it doesn't show a complete player.
If your obsessed with speed, your playing will just sound very heartless and boring, but if you incorperate feel, it gives pieces a whole new edge.
You need speed, but I think you need feeling in your playing a bit more.
If your obsessed with speed, your playing will just sound very heartless and boring, but if you incorperate feel, it gives pieces a whole new edge.
You need speed, but I think you need feeling in your playing a bit more.
# 1
# 2
Skee1: lol, :)
hmmmmm, this is intresting... It's hard to convince poeple something they "feel" is an illusion... Blues is one of my faviourite styles of music... but the music uses clichies and known about tricks to get the points across (the whole 1, 4,5 chord progression with the 12/8 time signatures, and big bends) You start to notice this when you break down the theory behind the music.. what gives the listener feeling doesn't mean the player is putting it in, and vice versa, (I mean, com'on, Tom York would have commited suicide years ago).... Now this isn't like lyrics, you can say what you want and how you want, and there you really can convey feeling... but in the end what's the point in telling them something is not real, when it just takes away from them, and not really doing them any favours...
I will admit, that if you break down feeling to accentuating the right notes, and having an ear for the right chord progression, then yes it is a gift... As I said before, there are some well off kids in our area, who are taught to read music, and play paino, with no real desire for self expression.... I mean what they're being taught is typing, just pressing the corresponding button to symbol... You try to jam with 'em, what ever, they fall flat on thier arse... simply becuase they dont have the ear to put an extended note here, a percusive sounding chord there etc etc..
Now, Somebody like Dijngo Rienheart (sp?), you hear some one who knows the tricks, and can work them well, and do them at speed... you listen to his stuff and it pretty cool, and you get some intresting sounds on songs like "nauges"...
It's an obvious comment, but it's crucial, things "feel" different a different speeds... Now if you could play your music faster to make it sound more intense, and you wanted an intense piece, then you would, simple as that. To rule out speed is to box your self in, when you could be opening doors...
"feeling is not a ****ing gift!!! how can you bring feeling to your instrument if you dont practice!? c'mon! if you cant ****ing play, then how can you put feeling into it! think!"
lol... You give ten poeple the same instrument, and teach them the same stuff... Will they be the same? No, as with all things in life, poeple's abbilities differ... What mark was saying is that some players have this gift/ ability, he didn't say that the guy on the street (who's never touched a guitar in his life) is suddenly gonna beat every guitarist that practices with out the gift... IT just means you have the potential to do more
[Edited by educatedfilm on 02-27-2002 at 05:17 PM]
hmmmmm, this is intresting... It's hard to convince poeple something they "feel" is an illusion... Blues is one of my faviourite styles of music... but the music uses clichies and known about tricks to get the points across (the whole 1, 4,5 chord progression with the 12/8 time signatures, and big bends) You start to notice this when you break down the theory behind the music.. what gives the listener feeling doesn't mean the player is putting it in, and vice versa, (I mean, com'on, Tom York would have commited suicide years ago).... Now this isn't like lyrics, you can say what you want and how you want, and there you really can convey feeling... but in the end what's the point in telling them something is not real, when it just takes away from them, and not really doing them any favours...
I will admit, that if you break down feeling to accentuating the right notes, and having an ear for the right chord progression, then yes it is a gift... As I said before, there are some well off kids in our area, who are taught to read music, and play paino, with no real desire for self expression.... I mean what they're being taught is typing, just pressing the corresponding button to symbol... You try to jam with 'em, what ever, they fall flat on thier arse... simply becuase they dont have the ear to put an extended note here, a percusive sounding chord there etc etc..
Now, Somebody like Dijngo Rienheart (sp?), you hear some one who knows the tricks, and can work them well, and do them at speed... you listen to his stuff and it pretty cool, and you get some intresting sounds on songs like "nauges"...
It's an obvious comment, but it's crucial, things "feel" different a different speeds... Now if you could play your music faster to make it sound more intense, and you wanted an intense piece, then you would, simple as that. To rule out speed is to box your self in, when you could be opening doors...
"feeling is not a ****ing gift!!! how can you bring feeling to your instrument if you dont practice!? c'mon! if you cant ****ing play, then how can you put feeling into it! think!"
lol... You give ten poeple the same instrument, and teach them the same stuff... Will they be the same? No, as with all things in life, poeple's abbilities differ... What mark was saying is that some players have this gift/ ability, he didn't say that the guy on the street (who's never touched a guitar in his life) is suddenly gonna beat every guitarist that practices with out the gift... IT just means you have the potential to do more
[Edited by educatedfilm on 02-27-2002 at 05:17 PM]
# 3
James, I love that comment from Al Di Meola. Here is a quote of Mike Stern's from the January Guitar Player:
"Chops are a luxury item, but if you use them responsibly, they can add a lot to your music. For example, I never wanted to play fast for fast's sake. But once I was onstage with Blood, Sweat and Tears while everyone was playing aggressive, burning solos. I tried to play this slow, melodic thing, and Jaco (Pastorius) told me I needed to learn how to 'hit up against the time' and nail faster tempos".
Anyone who's any good at the guitar puts feeling into what they are playing, and to suggest otherwise is fairly callous. Not everyone can express the feeling of the music very well, but it is something that one learns with time, and listening to other musicians. However, there is no point learning how to express the feeling of the music if you can't play it. Sometimes you just need to be able to play fast to keep up - as I have experienced a lot recently while jamming with others much more competent than me; I just couldn't keep up with them and so my ability to play good and meaningful solos was diminished. In fact, my ability to express how I was FEELING was reduced, because I couldn't play the damn music. Listen to Hendrix: he's a blues (serious Hendrix fans would know why I call him a blues player I'm sure) palyer with some serious chops and I have a feeling (there's that word again, ever think that it has a fairly ambiguous meaning?) that if you told him he didn't need to play so fast he'd have a bit of a chuckle.
"Chops are a luxury item, but if you use them responsibly, they can add a lot to your music. For example, I never wanted to play fast for fast's sake. But once I was onstage with Blood, Sweat and Tears while everyone was playing aggressive, burning solos. I tried to play this slow, melodic thing, and Jaco (Pastorius) told me I needed to learn how to 'hit up against the time' and nail faster tempos".
Anyone who's any good at the guitar puts feeling into what they are playing, and to suggest otherwise is fairly callous. Not everyone can express the feeling of the music very well, but it is something that one learns with time, and listening to other musicians. However, there is no point learning how to express the feeling of the music if you can't play it. Sometimes you just need to be able to play fast to keep up - as I have experienced a lot recently while jamming with others much more competent than me; I just couldn't keep up with them and so my ability to play good and meaningful solos was diminished. In fact, my ability to express how I was FEELING was reduced, because I couldn't play the damn music. Listen to Hendrix: he's a blues (serious Hendrix fans would know why I call him a blues player I'm sure) palyer with some serious chops and I have a feeling (there's that word again, ever think that it has a fairly ambiguous meaning?) that if you told him he didn't need to play so fast he'd have a bit of a chuckle.
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it's just not that widely reported".
# 4
The site below explains the feel thing alot better than
i can it goes back to the roots of blues.
But you need to read it all.
http://thebluehighway.com/history.html
So if really want to know where it all came from
check the site obove.
Mark
And i will say it again this is were Rock music,
came from.->Blues)
With-out these people plus later on .
Little Richard
chuck Berry plus the old blues players way back before
these guys, which there are,to many to mention you wouldn't of had Rock music.
To anyone who don't like blues players or are putting
them down and you are a Rock player you would be laughing
at your own music if you run down the roots of Rock music.(Because it came from the Roots of Blues and so did Jazz!
Also who was the first guitar player to play an electric
guitar and pave the way for us?(He was Black not White)
We owe alot to these people for Rock jazz blues ect.
[Edited by skee1 on 02-28-2002 at 10:37 AM]
i can it goes back to the roots of blues.
But you need to read it all.
http://thebluehighway.com/history.html
So if really want to know where it all came from
check the site obove.
Mark
And i will say it again this is were Rock music,
came from.->Blues)
With-out these people plus later on .
Little Richard
chuck Berry plus the old blues players way back before
these guys, which there are,to many to mention you wouldn't of had Rock music.
To anyone who don't like blues players or are putting
them down and you are a Rock player you would be laughing
at your own music if you run down the roots of Rock music.(Because it came from the Roots of Blues and so did Jazz!
Also who was the first guitar player to play an electric
guitar and pave the way for us?(He was Black not White)
We owe alot to these people for Rock jazz blues ect.
[Edited by skee1 on 02-28-2002 at 10:37 AM]
yours truly Mark Toman
# 5
Skee I wasn't referring to you in particular in my post, sorry for the miscommunication! No, I just mean that I've seen hundreds of people come and go on this site who all give their two cents, and alot of them tend to base their conceptions of "feeling" around the blues. People who define "feeling" in terms of how well it resembles a cliched blues bend. That's all I was saying
# 6
What annoys me is people who talk about playing with "feeling" when they clearly have no idea what it is. There are a few people I know and occassionally mess around on guitar with who just cannot believe that I like the Rolling Stones. The talk about all my favourite guitarists(Keith, George H) and talk about how the have no "feeling". Yes, apparently Keith has no feeling because he's a rhythm guitarist. That has been mentioned by some to me.
My point is while theyre lashing out Satriani/Van Halen or whatever songs note for note and talking about how much "feeling" their putting in to it, they dont understand that feeling is from inside and its something you develop and not learn from a goddam tabbook.
My point is while theyre lashing out Satriani/Van Halen or whatever songs note for note and talking about how much "feeling" their putting in to it, they dont understand that feeling is from inside and its something you develop and not learn from a goddam tabbook.
www.gnr.com.ar
http://www.izzystradlin.tk/
http://www.izzystradlin.tk/
# 7
Your right Led-Zepplin
you can't get feeling from a book or a tab book.
it comes from with-in your self.
Good point........
Mark
I like the guys you mentioned i really like all fellow guitarists plus all styles of music.
I don't like putting other guitarists down what ever style of music they play.
Mark
you can't get feeling from a book or a tab book.
it comes from with-in your self.
Good point........
Mark
I like the guys you mentioned i really like all fellow guitarists plus all styles of music.
I don't like putting other guitarists down what ever style of music they play.
Mark
yours truly Mark Toman
# 8
Wow, an argument that resulted in something! Skee! I certainly agreed with points you make, but as I said, I think a lot has to do with interpretation of the damn word.
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it's just not that widely reported".
# 9
# 10
Originally posted by Bardsley
Wow, an argument that resulted in something! Skee! I certainly agreed with points you make, but as I said, I think a lot has to do with interpretation of the damn word.
Remember Bardsley i said i agreed (Somewhat) not
100% mabee 10% on what you and Ed said.
Really what Led-zeppelin said made more since in layman
terms then what you or i said .
Coming from with-in your self makes more since to
me to put a feeling or some soul into your notes at
any speed!(Feeling coming from inside your-self.
I was also really talking about sheet music players
that play thier music with-out feeling or soulfully.
Bardsley Define playing Soulfully plus Define playing
with a feeling in any song?
Led-zeppelin
Also Keith Richards dos play his rhythm with a feel and
not like some-one just rattleing off notes from a Tab.
George H also had a feel when playing his notes.
ALSO:Bardsley can you step on a stage and not know the
song that the bands going to play but by knowing
the (key) thier in adlib or improv your lead part
and play with the Band?(I can so whats that called?
I can prove the obove key thing Christoph sent me
a track where he laid the Rhythm & Drums down and
i put a lead part with it and sent it back to him
all i asked him was what (key) the chord progression
was in.Then i had a cup coffie then went with the beat
plus stayed in the progression with my lead part.
Mark
[Edited by skee1 on 03-01-2002 at 10:02 AM]
yours truly Mark Toman
# 11
I think both. If you think about it, it takes feeling to get the speed.
Rock and Metal Forever
Rock and Metal Forever
# 12
# 13
Hey Skee, I wouldn't be so arrogant to suggest that you were swayed completely or anything, but rather that both sides have seemed to take into account the other points of view.
I can't read music very well, so most of the time I rely on my ear to play along with people having been simply told the key (and often not even that). A lot of the time friends that I jam with and I will just start a piece, not even really having a set key, but more going on whoever starts first; witha little riff ro something. This gives rise to other ideas coming from the group and we all develop, working off each other's music and ideas. Is this feeling? If you call it that, then I would say it about the most important thing to develop, but I call it something else: being able to listen. The other important thing is to be able to play in a style beffitting the music; there is no point playing country licks over heavy metal (actually, that can sound really cool, but don't try it the other way round). This is having a "feel" for the music, but that is not how I interpreted the question. To be honest, I know I am going around in circles a bit. The reason I made such strong claims at first is this: It is all too easy to fall into the trap of thinking "man, you don't need to play fast, just let your emotins out. I can't play fast, but I can play meaningfully" etc. etc. As noted before in my quote from Mike Stern, sorry, but that just isn't going to cut it in so many instances. A lot of the time I feel limited by my inability to play fast because it means I cannot put the feeling into the music that I want to. Really, it shouldn't be a matter of Speed or feeling, but rather speed and feeling. However, I would think it would be easier to work on speed, and grow into feeling. Feeling comes from listening, from going out and experiencing life and developing ideas that express your experience - hopefully without cliche, unless that is your feeling. By learning about good phrasing, you can learn some good feeling from playing the guitar, the rest of it is wherever you are; regardless of whether you are playing or not. For that reason, I think it is important to work on your speed. Note, when I say speed, I mean a speed that is required to play most music confidently, not necessarily the speed that shredders get to. If you want that, fine, but most people can do without it.
I can't read music very well, so most of the time I rely on my ear to play along with people having been simply told the key (and often not even that). A lot of the time friends that I jam with and I will just start a piece, not even really having a set key, but more going on whoever starts first; witha little riff ro something. This gives rise to other ideas coming from the group and we all develop, working off each other's music and ideas. Is this feeling? If you call it that, then I would say it about the most important thing to develop, but I call it something else: being able to listen. The other important thing is to be able to play in a style beffitting the music; there is no point playing country licks over heavy metal (actually, that can sound really cool, but don't try it the other way round). This is having a "feel" for the music, but that is not how I interpreted the question. To be honest, I know I am going around in circles a bit. The reason I made such strong claims at first is this: It is all too easy to fall into the trap of thinking "man, you don't need to play fast, just let your emotins out. I can't play fast, but I can play meaningfully" etc. etc. As noted before in my quote from Mike Stern, sorry, but that just isn't going to cut it in so many instances. A lot of the time I feel limited by my inability to play fast because it means I cannot put the feeling into the music that I want to. Really, it shouldn't be a matter of Speed or feeling, but rather speed and feeling. However, I would think it would be easier to work on speed, and grow into feeling. Feeling comes from listening, from going out and experiencing life and developing ideas that express your experience - hopefully without cliche, unless that is your feeling. By learning about good phrasing, you can learn some good feeling from playing the guitar, the rest of it is wherever you are; regardless of whether you are playing or not. For that reason, I think it is important to work on your speed. Note, when I say speed, I mean a speed that is required to play most music confidently, not necessarily the speed that shredders get to. If you want that, fine, but most people can do without it.
"Dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it's just not that widely reported".
# 14
oooooorrrr.
YOU TELL THEM TO PLAY WITH THEIR ****ING HEART AND SOUL!
thats what my teacher said, he said put your best effort in, play so that it is You, not just notes.
it worked.
YOU TELL THEM TO PLAY WITH THEIR ****ING HEART AND SOUL!
thats what my teacher said, he said put your best effort in, play so that it is You, not just notes.
it worked.
# 15
Originally posted by Incidents Happen
oooooorrrr.
YOU TELL THEM TO PLAY WITH THEIR ****ING HEART AND SOUL!
thats what my teacher said, he said put your best effort in, play so that it is You, not just notes.
it worked.
If your Teacher can play soulfully he could play a
few notes to show you what it sounds like playing
very soulfully plus playing a few notes showing
you what it sounds like with-out soul or feel!
Also is (****ING) a soulful word or something?
I do know its a no-brainer word don't you think?
Mark
[Edited by skee1 on 03-04-2002 at 11:45 AM]
yours truly Mark Toman
# 16
# 17
# 18
# 19
Food for thought: Long before the electric guitar and subsequently the "bend" came into existence, beautiful music was composed that much of the time, was very fast. So are we talking about feeling just in terms as it relates to the guitar, or to music overall? Because who can deny that some of the most emotional peices of classical, flamenco, and jazz music contain very fast passages.
# 20