which is more important speed or feeling

Ponyone
Yes i would agree too if thats what he ment by (Stuff)

Mark

heh, no...
I actually meant you are more likely to completely lose it and suddenly be flat out on your a** in the middle of playing. Of course hitting a sour note in a slow song is going to reverberate for much longer and have much more impact, but you can technically get back to where you were. What is interesting about this thread is the way everyone says things like "playing with speed and feeling makes guitarists great, like x" and they all name different speedy guitar players. It seems that individual listeners do actually think that particular guitarists play with feeling and speed, even though others can't hear it. Perhaps it is this: it is likely that every guitarist actually puts some sort of feeling in there playing, I just can't believe otherwise. However, with faster players it is harder to hear the feeling; you have to more attuned to it. So that less people think shredders are playing with feeling because they can't hear it despite the fact that others can. WHAT?! It's all in the mind of the listenr? No.....

I think that when people play something they love they will change it enough that it will sound good the speed will come later besides what good is playing fast if it sounds bad

gosh skee, be nice huh ? bard seems like a nice guy
to me and if ya disagree ya could disagree nicely ?

River
Your right i was quite mean when answering Bardsley.
But i did delete the post.
Sorry if i affended anyone!

Mark
(End of Story)
Really i have a life! I don't intend to spend it in these
Forms the rest of my life or sit around and just waiting,
for a big debate i have to make a living with my music.
Plus be out in the world.Not just sitting in a room with a
computer talking about my heros.I'm out on the road playing guitar and doing what most of you would like to be doing.Plus sometimes meeting some of your heros.
Being i'm from Lafayette ind home of A rose ,Shannon h
plus izzy i have met some of your Rock heros already.
And countless other artists from all styles of music.


(Peace)

[Edited by skee1 on 03-16-2002 at 01:12 AM]

Well I've already made my thoughts on the subject clear in an earlier post, but here's one more thing I'd like to add. It was Bardsley's response about guitarists playing with feeling but people sometimes hearing that feeling that got me thinking.

My girlfriend very much dislikes Steve Vai. I love Steve Vai. I understand her feelings, she isn't a guitar player and to the non-guitar player, an all-shred guitar instrumental can sometimes sound like a bunch of white noise. Nevertheless, I sometimes I try and put on a good song for her to hear in the hopes that something out of the white noise will strike her, and maybe she'll be able to develop an ear for it. None of it sounds like white noise to me anymore. Each and every note sings out in its own way. I put the song "Windows to the Soul"...

Well she ho-humed it for a while, but I told her that there was an incredibly powerful part at 1:52 that literally makes me laugh every time I hear it (I don't know why I do; maybe because the notes hit you from nowhere, they're unexpected but when your hear that phrase you can't imagine a more perfect combination of notes at that point- steve vai sometimes has that effect). Anyways she really LISTENED to this part, and made an effort to hear the emotion in it and I convinced her that its not all tasteless speed. Sometimes it's all to easy to cast aside "white noise" when in reality there is something beautiful under it.

Just a little story, take what you will from it.

Originally posted by skee1
Being i'm from Lafayette ind home of A rose ,Shannon h
plus izzy i have met some of your Rock heros already.
And countless other artists from all styles of music.

Really? Have you met that Paul Tobias guy thats in Guns N Roses now?

holy **** this is a long thread

And not really going anywhere either, but hey, we have to post somewhere...

Lal,you're right;it's the complete guitarist.And you're right,it doesn't have a lot of exercises or anything,just loads of stuff that can be a problem to put together if you're a learner.I wrote the author about it.he never got back.
and bardsley,about this thread not going anywhere;it's one of the reason i wish there was chat on this site.it would be really good,to talk in real time as opposed to checking back to see what the others have said.

that signature could be considered offensive. don't be surprised if someone starts bitching you out about it.

Originally posted by PonyOne
Hey man, you wanna talk about babbling.... there was a whole post there that took me like 15 mins to type that nobody acknowledged..... i am the king of all useless info and blabber!

I actually agree w/you, bardsley, in that to be a great shredder you have to have gobs of talent and speed and technique or you sound like a pissant; look at SRV, Hendrix, BB King, etc. Guys who know/knew how to balance speed with talent. I didn't bother to start attempting shredding for a couple years, after I'd memorized the layout of the fretboard and what sounded good, to me at least. I think I'm good at it, nothing to tell the grandkids about, though I'm sure some would differ in opinion.

[Edited by PonyOne on 03-15-2002 at 10:42 PM]

Bardsley is not a babbeler this was a mestake in even me
even making such a statement.

Mark

Originally posted by PonyOne

Originally posted by skee1
Really i have a life! I don't intend to spend it in these
Forms the rest of my life or sit around and just waiting,
for a big debate i have to make a living with my music.
Plus be out in the world.Not just sitting in a room with a
computer talking about my heros.I'm out on the road playing guitar and doing what most of you would like to be doing.Plus sometimes meeting some of your heros.
Being i'm from Lafayette ind home of A rose ,Shannon h plus izzy i have met some of your Rock heros already.
And countless other artists from all styles of music.

Whoa there dude, I'm not a no-lifer who just sits in front of a computer doing nothing... I record for at least 3 hours a day, do audio pregramming on my yamaha, and i'm learning the melodica on the side (don't ask)... I come here because I like interacting w/other musicians. I'm not on the road so to speak but I've played with other bands at clubs in the Boston area before as a fill-in; I just want to have my whole thing out and down pat before I go and metal the night away at a club.

I've met the now dead Kurt Cobain, Wayne Static of Static X, the bassist from Fear Factory, and that's pretty much it... I almost met damon albarn but they wouldn't let me into the signing because I didn't have the drinking armband from the club so I just screamed "DAMON YOU ROCK" through the door and he smiled, thumb-upped me and made some remark like "cheers, wanker" or something. I don't really get into meeting band guys like other people do, to me they're just other band guys, ad in my experience a lot of the bigger ones get more into the "worship me" mindset rather than getting in a conversation about their setup, etc.

Ponyone
About the life thing i was really refering to myself
not anyone on guitar tricks.
Mark

Originally posted by Led Zeppelin

Originally posted by skee1
Being i'm from Lafayette ind home of A rose ,Shannon h
plus izzy i have met some of your Rock heros already.
And countless other artists from all styles of music.

Really? Have you met that Paul Tobias guy thats in Guns N Roses now?

Led Zeppelin
No i have'nt met the new members of his band.
About Axle i met him thro izzy a few years back at a party
as far as Axle he is a phony like James hatfield said
he was.
At that time izzy was playing with slash.
Last i heard izzy is trying to get something going on
his own.Now about Shannon hoon (Blind Melon ) he was
a Real singer compared to Axel.

Mark

Originally posted by Bardsley
And not really going anywhere either, but hey, we have to post somewhere...

Bardsley: i just got home this morning and did'nt have a
chance to answer your letter!
But i did take the time to read all your posts in this,
thread and i do agree with them.
About some of the statements i made about you i don't agree with myself.I really think what caused me to even
say such things was some of the medicine's i was taking
last week for a bad cold.You are not a babbeler or a
circle talker.
In fact you had some great points in all your posts.
This kinda learnt me a lession about taking meds, and
trying to debate with someone on guitar-tricks.
And another thing i;ve alwasy thought you have had
great things to add in any forum on guitar-tricks
since i've been on guitar-tricks.
Really i don't like to debate in the forums on here i
would rather just try to help some-one if i
have the time which i don't have alot of time anymore
to get on here alot.
Sometimes its interesting to read plus see how some of the
younger guitarists are doing plus what thier learning plus
what kinda of music thier into ect.
I think all the People on guitar-tricks are some great
people.
And Bardsley i'm very sorry for saying some of the stupid things i said and hopefully we will over-come this thing
and be great friends.
Thats one-thing i belive, in is that no-one can have
enough friends.

Mark
(Peace Bro)

Originally posted by skee1
Last i heard izzy is trying to get something going on
his own.Now about Shannon hoon (Blind Melon ) he was
a Real singer compared to Axel.

Ouch, that hurts.

I onloy asked cause that Tobias lad is from the same place as Axl/Izzy/Shannon. I agree Shannon was a greats inger though.

right you know about GNR... is it true that Slash was born in Stoke on trent? give me a warning before you say yes... I'm not sure if my bladder can handle it..

I think this text is gonna be pretty long.
Just so that you know.
I have noticed that the hottest discussion here is the speed vs feeling.
I read some of the posts and didnt really care.
I've seen this discussion many times before.
And never has there been a conclusion.
But this time Im going to try to come to one myself.
Everyone was arguing back and forth who was the best,
the "feeling"-guys ex. BB King Or the ShredMaster
Yngwie Malmsteen. Bardsley posted that speed is always more important, that if its good phrased and well-written, there is feeling in it automatically.

Originally posted by Bardsley
Speed is always more important than any kind of feeling. I mean, what were you expecting to hear? Feeling really has to do with two things: the notes played; and the phrasing. If you play music that has been written well, you've already got part of the magical "feeling". Do not fall into the trap of assuming that to play with feeling means to bend the bloody g stringand play with sloppy sentimental sounds.

And in some aspects I think he's right.
Now Im a speed addict, and I dont mind it, BUT
I think the "feeling"-guys are half-right too.
Now I dont think that many people will argue with me that the masters of classical music; Chopin, Bach, Vivaldi, Händel and all them failed to capture passion, romance, pain etc. in their music. And they were certainly not
"bending the bloody G-string".
But lets bring BB King back as an example.
To some degree you could say that that kind of music is "bending the bloody G-string".
Its at least very far away from the classical music.
I dont like that kind of music, but I understand those who does. You cant just look away and say that it sucks.
I think its good. Well written, but in a different way.
So: very good, but its nothing I would put in my CD-player.
Sometimes its just too much of the "bending the bloody G-string". (sorry for quoting you all the time, but I just cant help myself :). )
But on the other hand it can be too strict and well-written in both classical and modern shred-style music.

So here is my conclusion:

All the Mini-Yngwies and mini-BB Kings out there can stop fighting, because its really like comparing black & white,
cats & dogs or coke & sprite:
It wont get you anywhere.
Feeling is not confined to one music-style.
Speed isnt only for death-metal-satanists-killers.
I say that feeling is in the eye of the beholder.
(or ear of the listener or whatever....)
I might feel strongly for a girl, but my friend doesnt understand why.
We all feel different. Thats why the discussion isnt going anywhere. You cant just tell someone to like something or feel something.
I think feeling is in (almost) all music.
Then some people appreciate it, and some dont.
I dont understand why my friends like bands like Linkin Park, and they dont understand why I like Randy Rhoads.

Now you might think that Im a coward for not having picking sides in this war. Well, its not needed.
For me, one of the great things about music is you dont have to pick sides if you dont want to.
So drop the discussion already!

Well, thats it.
If you have fought through the whole text I can only congratulate you.
Rock on!


oh by the way, for those of you who have judged Yngwie without really listening to his work (Like myself until 2 years ago) I can recommend the song "Flamenco Diablo"
nice.
nice indeed.

Aparently yeah, he was brought up in beverly Hills 90210 though.

Yes Ed

And he also started this thread anyway his real name did.
Staffordshire England.

Mark