favorite guitarist?

Have't you evr heard "For the Love of God", "Fire Garden Suite", "Bad Horsie", or "Kill the Guy With the Ball" (to name a few) by Steve Vai? Those are all "shred" songs, but they all stir and invoke emotion.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! Let's end this now.

loner92 and BarryS are totally right. only people who are complete experts on guitar and write songs that are impossible for other guitarists to play make good music. everyone else, especially freaks like kurt cobain who write twisted lyrics should be shot.

for the sarcasm-impaired, the above was meant to be sarcastic.

don't you guys think that the reason cobain wrote simple, loud music was because he was disgusted with people with similar opinions to yours, that only complex and difficult music and guitar work was worth listening to? and the attitude that comes along with it?

i'm also not going to qualify the above by saying "this is just my opinion", because obviously people who disagree will just write a flaming reply anyways.

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ok, i'm not really the eggman

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the reason cobain wrote simple, loud music

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No, it couldn't be because of mediocre talent, could it?

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only complex and difficult music and guitar work was worth listening to

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When did I say that? I wasn't talking about complexity or difficulty. I was talking about good old heart and soul. Albert King wasn't the most complex guitarist who ever lived, in fact he was quite subtle. But every note he played was wringing with emotion and came from the heart.

I can respect what Nirvana did for the music scene. They got rid of the 'hair band' craze for one thing. But their music (in my opinion) just leaves much to be desired, artistically. Heck, I loved them when I was thirteen, but I grew out of that phase, thankfully. I discovered that there is much, much better music out there. And when you've tasted prime rib and sirloin, you're not eager to go back to hamburgers and hot dogs.

Again, just my opinion. Feel free to flame away.

To give you all the benfit of the doubt, i am listening to the Vai music you recommended. And how many artists do you know who have the power to write hooks, and the power to inspire people like Kurt Cobain had? Not that he was brilliant, but he made solid music in a time when it was badly needed. Shred still sucks. My opinion anyway. What do you guys see in it?

Atomic

There's good shred and bad shred. There will always be good shred and bad shred as long as the guitar exists. Very few can make it worth listening to. The vast majority is a waste of time and energy.

I never said music has to be complicated to be good. Alice in Chains is one of my favorite bands, but Jerry Cantrell isn't what you'd call a "shredder". Nirvana is very overrated, it just isn't that good. The only reason they got so popular is because MTV played "Smells Like Teen Spirit" over and over and over and over. I don't see what's so inspiring about mumbling and screaming with an off time dissonant solo (I'm referring to SLTS here). I kind of like one or two Nirvana songs, but they aren't that great. What really bothers me is all the 13 year olds running around in flannels claiming Nirvana to be the best, most inspiring, most powerful. most skilfull and talented "metal" band ever whining about how Kurt killed himself. I'm also sick of MTV doing the same but now with punkish crap like Blink-182 and Green Day (the later of which I find to be one of the most annoying bands ever)). They don't seem to understand how sinple and un-creative it is to write a four barre chord song with the punk beat.

loner, if you scroll up to your previous comment, you will see that you did say, or at least imply, that music needs to be complex to be good.

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WTF?? Do you even play guitar? Those guys are terrible guitarists. You can learn their stuuf in less than a week (and that's assuming you've never picked up a guitar before). If you want to hear some real guitar music...

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well, I think you've convinced me. i'll just go and throw out all my beatles records because i learned all their songs in a short period of time.
by the way, that (the quote which you see above) is the attitude i was referring to in my other post.

Barry, you call Cobain a moderately talented wannabe. who or what did he want to be? he copied no one, singlehandedly invented an entire genre of music which is imitated (unsuccessfully) to this day. and anyways, didn't you say that it didn't matter how much talent an artist has, as long as they have emotion? Cobain spoke to an entire generation in a language they understood, about things they cared about - not "i wanna hold your hand" garbage, but serious issues. How much more emotion did you want him to show? He lived the life we dream about - fame, fortune, family. But he still was so emotionally disturbed that he killed himself at the time when he should have been happiest.

I think erik said it best:

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So at least show a little respect and try to find the good in all musicians.

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sorry for the huge post.


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ok, i'm not really the eggman

[This message has been edited by iamthe_eggman (edited 07-18-2000).]

When I posted that I thought this was a "Best guitarist" (incorrectly assuming that people would list who they thought were the best guitarists as their favorites. Sorry.
Cobain wasn't the innovator you're claiming him to be other "Seattle bands" came out of the cracks before Nirvana (Soundgarden and AIC come to mind) with the same (general) attitude towards hair metal.
Also, I don't hear any soul in his playing. His "language" in which he "spoke" to the masses of teens who followed MTV was mostly mumbling (honestly, how many words in Smells Like Teen Spirit can you uderstand without a lyric sheet, and if you have one, how much sense does it make?).

[This message has been edited by loner92 (edited 07-18-2000).]

Let me make this clear. I HATE alternative rock, grunge rock, modern rock, whatever you want to call it. Kurt Cobain did not create this genre of music, as you claim. This was done a decade earlier by bands like The Clash, R.E.M., The Pixies, Sonic Youth, Jane's Addiction, Husker Du, The Meat Puppets, etc. Cobain merely brought this music into the mainstream, which actually went against the whole point of being 'alternative'. It became mainstream music.

It is because of Kurt Cobain that we now have awful groups like Matchbox 20, Foo Fighters, Bush, Goo Goo Dolls, Creed, Sugar Ray, Third Eye Blind, Blink 182, etc who just make crap, crap, crap, crap. This is, I'm sure, part of the reason for my hostility against Cobain. I still don't believe that he was anywhere near as talented as people make him out to be. If you admire him and enjoy his music, that's okay by me. I disagree, but I respect your tastes.

[This message has been edited by BarryS (edited 07-18-2000).]

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Originally posted by BarryS:
Let me make this clear. I HATE alternative rock, grunge rock, modern rock, whatever you want to call it. Kurt Cobain did not create this genre of music, as you claim. This was done a decade earlier by bands like The Clash, R.E.M., The Pixies, Sonic Youth, Jane's Addiction, Husker Du, The Meat Puppets, etc. Cobain merely brought this music into the mainstream, which actually went against the whole point of being 'alternative'. It became mainstream music.

It is because of Kurt Cobain that we now have awful groups like Matchbox 20, Foo Fighters, Bush, Goo Goo Dolls, Creed, Sugar Ray, Third Eye Blind, Blink 182, etc who just make crap, crap, crap, crap. This is, I'm sure, part of the reason for my hostility against Cobain. I still don't believe that he was anywhere near as talented as people make him out to be. If you admire him and enjoy his music, that's okay by me. I disagree, but I respect your tastes.

[This message has been edited by BarryS (edited 07-18-2000).]

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Ha! I agree.

That's an awful heresy to say that anyone is responsible for other musicians putting out terrible crap. I agree that the music that's coming out these days and force-fed to everyone by corporate radio is hideous and no one should be subjected to it. It seems like everything out there was sugarcoated in the same factory; from Limp Bizkit to Creed to boy bands and girl bands. I've not yet heard one good strong song from any of these people. If anything it's their own damn fault, though, not the fault of kurt cobain.

do any of you enjoy guitarists who do something unique? by that i mean artists like Jonny Greenwood, Larry Lalonde, John Frusciante, and Tom Morello. there are a lot of people out there doing clever things. I'd personally like to hear more of that, much more.

Atomic

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When I posted that I thought this was a "Best guitarist" (incorrectly assuming that people would list who they thought were the best guitarists as their favorites. Sorry.

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There's some more of that attitude I was referring to. Just because a guitarist is the best, doesn't mean he is everyone's favourite, nor vice versa. Or else we would all love yngwie, wouldn't we?

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Cobain wasn't the innovator you're claiming him to be other "Seattle bands" came out of the cracks before Nirvana (Soundgarden and AIC come to mind) with the same (general) attitude towards hair metal.
Also, I don't hear any soul in his playing. His "language" in which he "spoke" to the masses of teens who followed MTV was mostly mumbling (honestly, how many words in Smells Like Teen Spirit can you uderstand without a lyric sheet, and if you have one, how much sense does it make?).

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Yup, just cause his lyrics don't make sense to you means that his guitar and music work suck. Also, "I am the Walrus" is a crappy song, according to that same standard. And how about "Radio Free Europe", or any other REM song, for that matter? Cobain's "mumbling" also translates to mean he has no soul, doesn't it?

And who ever declared you the supreme judge of quantifying "soul" in music? Just because you don't hear it, does that mean that none of the 5 billion other humans on earth will?

And Barry - The Clash, Husker Du, The Pixies, REM - they made totally different music from what nirvana made. Cobain may have drawn on them for inspiration, but his genre of music was definitely grunge, not punk or pop.

If cobain or nirvana was not as talented as everyone says they are, how could a three-piece band cause such an effect on modern music that they influence music to this day? no "untalented" bands that i can think of can make this claim.

Would you call a group like sonic youth "untalented" just because their guitar work was unskilled and unorthodox? remember too that they were also one of the first indie bands to "sell out" to a major label.

try to keep the big picture in mind and learn a little bit more about something before you form such a radical and unfounded opinion on something. you could turn out to be wrong.

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ok, i'm not really the eggman

[This message has been edited by iamthe_eggman (edited 07-20-2000).]

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but his genre of music was definitely grunge, not punk or pop.

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Grunge, schmunge. It's the same genre. Cobain just took what indie bands of the 80s were already doing and made it mainstream. Nothing revolutionary about that. And Nirvana's music was very much punk. What's the difference between punk and grunge anyway? Grunge rockers have long hair and punk rockers have mohawks? It's all semantics.

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If cobain or nirvana was not as talented as everyone says they are, how could a three-piece band cause such an effect on modern music that they influence music to this day? no "untalented" bands that i can think of can make this claim.

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What about Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, etc? Maybe not the same genre of music, but still the same situation. When something is monstrously successful, there are going to be tons of imitators trying to cash in on the success of it. It has little to do with talent, and more to do with marketability. Nirvana was a huge success in the early 90s, so naturally along came tons of imitators mimicking their style and attitude. Is that what you call being influential?

"There's some more of that attitude I was referring to. Just because a guitarist is the best, doesn't mean he is everyone's favourite, nor vice versa. Or else we would all love yngwie, wouldn't we?"

Hmm, can't tell if that's sarcasm. But seriously, there is so much more that can be done on guitar than fast harmonic minor scales and sweep arpeggios. I suggest you check out Jimmy Bruno, he does some very technical stuff that yngwie couldn't dream of, but he never shows off. You will not find him shredding through an entire song, or even at all, in most songs. In addition to that, he uses beatiful chord voicings very well, making for great chord melody. Yngwie would probably thing that playing chords isn't flashy enough, but a good guitarrist knows his voicings and can use them in soloing and accompanying. Check out Allan Holdsworth for that too.

I still think Mr. Sambora is the best. Just listen to dry county and you'll know why. Richie for president!!!! (By the way, I'm not so bad myself)

I always liked Joe Perry from Aerosmith.

I once saw Andy Gil from Gang of Four play (the guy that mixed the first chili peppers album) and he was incredible.

And Van Halen.

And B. B. King, cuz you can't steal his riffs, they are so recognizable people say, "Hey, that's a BB riff."

I would have to say:
1. Eric Clapton
2. Peter Frampton (do you feel like I do?)
3. Mark Tremonte of Creed



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"Reach down your hand in your pocket, and pull out some hope for me"- Rob Thomas "Long Day"

BY FAR THE BEST GUIATR PLAYER EVER IS
JOE EZELL OF BALL STOMP AND DIMEBAG.

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Originally posted by BarryS:
What about Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC, etc? Maybe not the same genre of music, but still the same situation. When something is monstrously successful, there are going to be tons of imitators trying to cash in on the success of it. It has little to do with talent, and more to do with marketability. Nirvana was a huge success in the early 90s, so naturally along came tons of imitators mimicking their style and attitude. Is that what you call being influential?

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Man, everyone's going to forget about people like that. They dont have nearly the influence or the impact that nirvana had. Youre totally blind if you cant see how influential nirvana was. I would have replied sooner but i hadnt read closely where this topic was going.

Damn
Atomic