How to come about writing songs

I am curious to know when any of you start to write a song what is the first thing that comes to mind?

For me.. It's meaning!!!

I think to be a good song writer, we also need to be a good poetic reader.
The more we read the beautiful poets, the more easily we can frame a song.

I think it's the "mood", that brings out a song from within(not always).

I usually start with the music. Just because that's how my brain works, lol. But the times that I start with the lyrics and feeling and know exactly what I'm going to write about, it turns out a lot better :)

i usually write a good riff and just build the rest of the music and then wright the lyrics

I make small pieces of music. Fx. a Guitar riff, a bass riff, a piano riff, some chords that fit, some small rhymes, a rythm, or just an idea.
Then i put them together. Pieces with the same feeling. I think about the structure. What is the song about? Should the chorus come 2 or 3 times?
Then i often make some kind of intro. Then the soli (Guitar or keyboard), and then the outro. Then i play the song on a terrible mic or something, and listen to it, andsee if there is something missing. Then i introduce it to my friends or band-mates.

I've started writing songs in different ways, writing lyrics first, coming up with a chord progression then singing a melody, or one of my favorites is coming up with a catchy "hook" first and then building the rest of the song around it.

I enjoy collaborating with the rest of my band when I write songs. I usually walk in to practice with a new riff, and they expand on it. It is always fun to see where they will go with it.

I've primarily written lyrics or rather thoughts so far on different themes. Of course there will be a lot of edits, rewrites but I'd like to capture my mood, thoughts as best as possible before I put music to it.

For me, I usually start out with a nice chord progression. I'll then keep playing that progression until I get overwhelmed with some sort of emotion. I'll then just start singing whatever comes to mind. I don't always keep all of it, but most of the times I do.

Very rarely have I written from lyrics first.

This topic fascinates me. I have no trouble writing songs. It may start with 2-3 chords, or a something I over hear while someone is on a cell phone or at the market "I told her'baby you took the wrong exit'" It may start with a morph of something I hear on the radio, or even a chord I hear in a Pink Floyd song or the intro to a Stones song.
The problem I'm having however is how to notate this stuff. I can write down the lyrics....I can draw little pictures (how professional!) of what the chords look like on my fretboard. Yet even with that, if I don't play it about 50 times at first, It will shift and I have a hard time stabilizing it...if that makes sense...getting it to gel. Am I the only one with this problem? I write it all down. Come back the next day and I realize the phrasing is gone, not sure what I accentuated before. Not to mention my timing can be wonky

SlickJesus - I don't really know a lot about writing songs but it sounds to me like though you need to take some time and learn a bit of music theory and then apply that to your music. Again, I don't know anything about writing music so I'm just offering a suggestion here. Don't know if it will help but maybe it will. And I don't know you may already know music theory and I may be missing your point altogether. If I did - sorry.

Thanks for your post BlueToad. You are right, I have no music theory what so ever. However I have no trouble coming up with a I-IV-V chord change, 12 bar progression etc. not unlike Lauen (see above) and then words. Or conversely, I'll write words then the music. Think how many songs have the same three chords, yet the count, and the tune will be entirely different from song to song.I do understand this is what music notation is for, yet, playing by ear, I need something a bit more accommodating. I can't be alone in this dilemma. What do others of you who are self taught do? How do you write your music so that when you play the song it sounds as it did when you wrote it?

Originally Posted by: slickjesusThanks for your post BlueToad. You are right, I have no music theory what so ever. However I have no trouble coming up with a I-IV-V chord change, 12 bar progression etc. not unlike Lauen (see above) and then words. Or conversely, I'll write words then the music. Think how many songs have the same three chords, yet the count, and the tune will be entirely different from song to song.I do understand this is what music notation is for, yet, playing by ear, I need something a bit more accommodating. I can't be alone in this dilemma. What do others of you who are self taught do? How do you write your music so that when you play the song it sounds as it did when you wrote it?

Two things I would think you'd need to do:

Know the chord names and location such as; Chord A, 6 string, 5th Fret.

Second is to record what you write. Whether aa full blown recording set up or those little handheld recorders, find something to audibly get what you're writing or riffing or even to hum in to. Also, don't plat it and forget it. constantly run the melody through your head and develop it. In most cases, that good riff gets a little more finesse and that much better. Few riffs are great out of the box.

I'm self taught but learned enough to at least have a conversation about working out a riff or the they key of a riff. I'm also here at GT not so much to learn how to play but to learn the theory and knowledge I didn't get the many years ago when I started. You are here at GT and it a wealth of knowledge, utilize it.

Thanks for writing Jeff, you've succinctly expressed the problem. Recording it on something, so its essence is not lost, and more importantly "don't play it and forget it" I write the lyrics, make a chord charts if I don't know the names of the chords. This works but is not always ideal. It seems however, others work the same way, thanks again.

I usually come at song writing from a few different places. The start for me now a days is far more lyrical and with what I want to talk about within the song. I used to just write a ton of licks and than put some goofy words to it and there you have it; pure mastery! Not so much.

My approach currently is having something I want to write about. Once I establish that I have a place to come from lyrically, I than sift through years of recorded riffs, progressions, etc. to see what I can find to express this. Sometimes it happens very naturally, other times it does not. From there my greatest writing tool is LOGIC and recording the ideas as they come. Where as the trusted acoustic and pen'n'paper works great, being able to track as you go and never lose an idea is unbelievably helpful and inspiring. From there, I tackle it until it's complete. One thing I strongly recommend is to be concise with your ideas and don't let the inspiration pass you by. I have found many of my best ideas simply come from sitting down, and saying "I am not stopping until this is done." Too many songs can lay dormant due to lack of follow through. Tackle inspiration the minute it comes and exhaust it.

Also, there are moments when I have something particular I want to emulate. I have a song called "That Familiar Place" that was purposefully written to sound like a mixture of Iron and Wine and Portishead. I feel that was accomplished, and my commitment to that I feel developed into a great song that I am very, very proud of. What I find in this vein is that you almost always end up sounding like "you." You can try to emulate all you want, but it will come out sounding like yourself, which is not a bad thing. The influence from your intention will mix with your own personal style and usually a great result will happen. Just don't try too hard to be someone else, as you will come across generic. Borrow from your influences while also intertwining your own voice.

That is the best I got for the time being. Good luck!

For me probably the one most valuable piece of gear i own for preserving different fiffs and melodies is a Boss Loop station i can lay down a simple chord progression or a complex one (one that's hard for little brains like my to remember) and then i can play around with riffs and soloing until i do something that i really like. Sometimes it may just be one or two certain notes or licks that really make it worth keeping. When i am satisfied i will then copy it onto my computer into my recording studio software and save it. And while you can create cool riffs and licks with the boss loop you are elevating your improvisational skills by leaps and bounds.

I was thinking today of how, recently, better song idea are coming at me now than when I was a 'serious' musician. I'm happily a hobbyist now. However, I noticed that I had some ideas for songs that I didn't actually hate.

What I noticed is that I'm not trying so hard to come up with the most amazing riff ever. From that, I'm thinking more in terms of the arrangement and that the riffs I am rolling around in my head are simple but catchier to my ear.

It's not that I've had a chance to complete anything yet since I'm just goofing off but once I get around to picking up a few more 'supplies', I might give a few full song recordings a go.

Back to the point, I think when you're think in terms of the song arrangement, then the song grows. Not just the 'verse, chorus' part of it but the instrumentation too. Thinking not just of the guitar part but all parts. In some ways, it's easier for me to think in terms of bass lines (which is why I'm about to pick one up).

I used to try to write full songs on just riffs and lyrics and I think they were just total trash. So, as I am now at my advanced aged (hehe), I think I understand the breadth of the song so much better.

Hey Jeff.. what is the advanced age..LOL..
Don't tell me your writing The Rockin Chair Blues...

Originally Posted by: compart1Hey Jeff.. what is the advanced age..LOL..
Don't tell me your writing The Rockin Chair Blues...

Not quite but closer than I would like ;) ....I'm a lousy 44. :D

Although, I actually don't mind that so much. I rather enjoy that my playing now is because I have no illusions as to why I'm doing it; for enjoyment.

I've never decided to write a song and then did it...my songs have all been accidents...it just happens...if I sit down with the intention of writing something I may be able to come up with something decent...simply because I've been doing it for nearly 15 yrs and I just naturally have a musical brain...but most likely it would be forced and un-inspirational to me...the best songs write themselves and just come together easily...nothing forced...some don't come together as easily and still end up being cool songs but it always begins with something that was accidental...a chord change that I didn't expect while just messing around on piano, guitar, or bass...I wrote one of my favorite songs of mine completely in my head and it started with a bass line...I just began humming it and it turned into a very catchy tune...sometimes they just fall in your lap...It feels so good when that happens...I live for that experience...