*shrug*
Amps
I have a little Ross Tube Blaster amp or something... It's tiny, really has no power at all... What kind of power should I be looking for in a jamming amp? 500W? I have no idea at all.
*shrug*
*shrug*
# 1
Jamming???
500w = nothing, u'll never hear again after turning that amp on... maybe if it's a bass.. then it's not that uncommon...
at max 100w.. even that may be much for jamming..
what music do u play?
and what kinda amp are u thinking of? head and cab? combo? 1x12 2x10 2x12 4x12 etc?
for jamming(with others) i would use a 50w amp with a 2x12 cab.. but i would have lifted the cab alittle up from the floor.. then it sounds better and louder.. 50w and 2x12 is more than u think...
if u meant jamming alone at home.. i think 25-50w.. and 1x12 is enough...
But on stage i would use 4x12.. but maybe not on full volume.. but i would miced it up with a sm-57 and have alittle guitar in the PA...
NB; this is tubeamps.. i have no idea how a hybrid/transistor amp would be... some says they are louder on low volumes and lower on high.. but i don't really know.. TUBE MATTERS!
Sivert Skaaren
aka Acron
500w = nothing, u'll never hear again after turning that amp on... maybe if it's a bass.. then it's not that uncommon...
at max 100w.. even that may be much for jamming..
what music do u play?
and what kinda amp are u thinking of? head and cab? combo? 1x12 2x10 2x12 4x12 etc?
for jamming(with others) i would use a 50w amp with a 2x12 cab.. but i would have lifted the cab alittle up from the floor.. then it sounds better and louder.. 50w and 2x12 is more than u think...
if u meant jamming alone at home.. i think 25-50w.. and 1x12 is enough...
But on stage i would use 4x12.. but maybe not on full volume.. but i would miced it up with a sm-57 and have alittle guitar in the PA...
NB; this is tubeamps.. i have no idea how a hybrid/transistor amp would be... some says they are louder on low volumes and lower on high.. but i don't really know.. TUBE MATTERS!
Sivert Skaaren
aka Acron
S. G. Skaaren
aka Acron(GW)
aka Acron(GW)
# 2
In an earlier thread on this forum http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=2164 we had some discussion about how much power you really need. You'd be surprised at how loud a small amp is! What gets scary, is the fact that it takes a ten-fold change in power to produce double (or half) the loudness!
In other words, a 50 Watt amp is going to be only twice as loud as a 5 Watt amp. ('Kinda makes you wonder why you'd want to spend all that coin on a bigger amp!). What makes the bigger amps totally unusable for anything but on-stage performance is the fact that a tube amp doesn't sound its best until its 'cranked'. A big amp at full power is going to hurt your hearing.
The reason a lot of players give for 'needing' a bigger amp is that they get drowned out by the drummer. Hello? Take away his miniature baseball bats and give him some lighter sticks! If everybody is using small amps, you avoid the 'volume wars' and you can get down to making [u]music[/u]. That's what you're there for, right?
I've finally got some time off from my job, so I can get some work done on the WeeBeastie 5 Watt amp I've been meaning to build for months now. I've already got a 60 Watt Ampeg VT-40 4x10 combo, and a 120 Watt Ampeg VT-22 2x12 combo, so I speak from experience when I talk about using high-power amps. I'm designing, and building, a [u]small[/u] amp because I believe its a better choice.
In other words, a 50 Watt amp is going to be only twice as loud as a 5 Watt amp. ('Kinda makes you wonder why you'd want to spend all that coin on a bigger amp!). What makes the bigger amps totally unusable for anything but on-stage performance is the fact that a tube amp doesn't sound its best until its 'cranked'. A big amp at full power is going to hurt your hearing.
The reason a lot of players give for 'needing' a bigger amp is that they get drowned out by the drummer. Hello? Take away his miniature baseball bats and give him some lighter sticks! If everybody is using small amps, you avoid the 'volume wars' and you can get down to making [u]music[/u]. That's what you're there for, right?
I've finally got some time off from my job, so I can get some work done on the WeeBeastie 5 Watt amp I've been meaning to build for months now. I've already got a 60 Watt Ampeg VT-40 4x10 combo, and a 120 Watt Ampeg VT-22 2x12 combo, so I speak from experience when I talk about using high-power amps. I'm designing, and building, a [u]small[/u] amp because I believe its a better choice.
# 3
oh god, I had a look at some power amps... MY GOD!!! Those things START at £1200!!!!!...
I know that output works on a logarithmic scale (very similar to decibels, but the log is to different base... *scratches head*... I think), but how come valve amps are FAR louder than transistor amps? I'm pretty sure of this ater having played about with a 30 watt valve jobby, which had a 12inch cone, which was deafening!!! Now, my practice amp is rated as 50watt, it's only got an 8inch cone, it produces a fantastic sound with out having to go deaf for it... But it's still, FAR FAR FAR quiter! Why?
Does cone size really make THAT much difference?
or amps rated by power usage as opposed to output? which would make sense...
I know that output works on a logarithmic scale (very similar to decibels, but the log is to different base... *scratches head*... I think), but how come valve amps are FAR louder than transistor amps? I'm pretty sure of this ater having played about with a 30 watt valve jobby, which had a 12inch cone, which was deafening!!! Now, my practice amp is rated as 50watt, it's only got an 8inch cone, it produces a fantastic sound with out having to go deaf for it... But it's still, FAR FAR FAR quiter! Why?
Does cone size really make THAT much difference?
or amps rated by power usage as opposed to output? which would make sense...
# 4
I own a laney 30 watts all tube amp, and damn, that one turned up on ten can shred a pub to piece, with a really warm tone, and become really gentle when I turn the volume of the guitar down... Of course, I play mainly blues, so I need that kind of sound... If I need more power, I just mike it with a sm57... I've played once a marshall stack, and I had to turn it so loud to get the tone I wanted that I couldn't stand in front of it....
# 5
... is dealing with the things that crawl out at you!!
Loudness is measured in terms of the air-pressure variations (sound-pressure level, or SPL) that we sense as sound waves. The scale is indeed base-10 logarhythmic, but the relationship to electrical power is not linear. [u]To double the SPL, you need 10 times as much power!![/u]
Just to confuse the issue even further, the efficiency, or lack of efficiency, of the speaker(s) makes a big difference in the loudness of a system.
You will see speaker efficiency specified in terms of how many dB SPL result from an input of [u]1 Watt[/u] at 1000 Hz, measured at a distance of 1 meter, in line with the centre of the cone. An efficient speaker will produce ~100 dB. Its not uncommon to see numbers closer to 90 dB.
Here's where things get strange. A 50 Watt amp driving the 90 dB speaker is going to produce the [u]same[/u] SPL as a 5 Watt amp driving the 100 dB speaker!
As for the tube/transistor conundrum, power ratings are measured at very low levels of distotion, typically much less than 1%.
A transistor amp stays clean right up to the point where it can't pass any more of the power supply voltage to the speakers. Then it 'clips' the signal, producing lots of very harsh distortion.
A tube amp starts to distort long before it 'runs out' of supply voltage, so it can deliver far more than its rated power, if you don't mind getting increased distortion along with the extra power. (You don't mind a little power-stage distortion, do you?)
The even-order harmonic content added to the original signal by tube distortion sounds more 'musical' than the odd-order harmonics that make up the waveform resulting from 'transistor' distortion. If you're feeling mathematically inquisitive, you can do some Fourier Transforms to see what I mean.
[Edited by Lordathestrings on 12-25-2001 at 07:13 PM]
Loudness is measured in terms of the air-pressure variations (sound-pressure level, or SPL) that we sense as sound waves. The scale is indeed base-10 logarhythmic, but the relationship to electrical power is not linear. [u]To double the SPL, you need 10 times as much power!![/u]
Just to confuse the issue even further, the efficiency, or lack of efficiency, of the speaker(s) makes a big difference in the loudness of a system.
You will see speaker efficiency specified in terms of how many dB SPL result from an input of [u]1 Watt[/u] at 1000 Hz, measured at a distance of 1 meter, in line with the centre of the cone. An efficient speaker will produce ~100 dB. Its not uncommon to see numbers closer to 90 dB.
Here's where things get strange. A 50 Watt amp driving the 90 dB speaker is going to produce the [u]same[/u] SPL as a 5 Watt amp driving the 100 dB speaker!
As for the tube/transistor conundrum, power ratings are measured at very low levels of distotion, typically much less than 1%.
A transistor amp stays clean right up to the point where it can't pass any more of the power supply voltage to the speakers. Then it 'clips' the signal, producing lots of very harsh distortion.
A tube amp starts to distort long before it 'runs out' of supply voltage, so it can deliver far more than its rated power, if you don't mind getting increased distortion along with the extra power. (You don't mind a little power-stage distortion, do you?)
The even-order harmonic content added to the original signal by tube distortion sounds more 'musical' than the odd-order harmonics that make up the waveform resulting from 'transistor' distortion. If you're feeling mathematically inquisitive, you can do some Fourier Transforms to see what I mean.
[Edited by Lordathestrings on 12-25-2001 at 07:13 PM]
# 6
# 7
Please take look at this page http://www.amptone.com/g112.htm to get some idea of how the power must drop in order to get the loudness down to acceptable levels.
Even 1 Watt is still about 1/3 as loud as 50 Watts!
Even 1 Watt is still about 1/3 as loud as 50 Watts!
# 8
I've run half sack marshalls, and full stack Ampeg VT-22(yes I took notice, possible new thread topic about hearing loss) and I think small amps are better...I now rely on a Fender champ(5 watts and an 8" speaker) and a Semore Duncan (40 watts and a 12" speaker).. I split the signal and run stereo, E.Q. it so the champ handles to top end, and the Duncan handles the lower end..Add a SansAmp GT2, and a Double XX Warp thing for feedback frenzy.. Volume doesn't seem to be an issue, plus a mike in each cab at live situations elicits comments from other guitar players like,"What is that thing, and why does it sound so good?" There are fanatics who swear by champs, and champ mods..Anyone interested, I have an address for champ mods somewhere.. Joe Walsh on Funk #49---yep..it was a champ..
"Why wallow with eagles, when you can soar with pigs."
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
# 9
# 10
I'm probably cutting my own throat by preaching so much on this topic. After all, if my home-made 0-5 Watt WeeBeastie works as well as I hope it will, I'm going to have an Ampeg VT-40 4x10 combo, an Ampeg VT-22 2x12 combo, and a pair of Garnet 4x10 Celestion cabs to try to sell.
Oops! :rolleyes:
Oops! :rolleyes:
# 11
Well I'm a little confused about what my amp is... I couldn't find the specs (I have them tho, and the schematics)...
It says 40 watts on the back of the box, but 15 on the magnet I think... but it's a RG10 so I would assume that means a 10 watt amp. It has tiny lil balls, and at high volumes is very distorted. It's 10 yrs old. Volume, Overdrive, Trebble, Bass knobs on it. One input, one output. It's a tube amp. That's all I really know.
*shrug*
It says 40 watts on the back of the box, but 15 on the magnet I think... but it's a RG10 so I would assume that means a 10 watt amp. It has tiny lil balls, and at high volumes is very distorted. It's 10 yrs old. Volume, Overdrive, Trebble, Bass knobs on it. One input, one output. It's a tube amp. That's all I really know.
*shrug*
# 12
So, you've got a 10 Watt tube amp, with tone controls and overdrive, and you want to jam?
All you need now is some people to play with. Enjoy!
All you need now is some people to play with. Enjoy!
# 13
# 14
El Groupo,
Don't fall for the size, or the illusion of size..There used to be bands(and still may be)that set up dummy marshall stacks with no speakers, and put a mike on a pig-nose in back of the drummer..
I guess we should take the zuccini out of our trousers, and crank small amps that sound really good... Say farwell to fantasy land, welcome to reality..
Don't worry what others think, because all of the great guitarists never did concern themselves with outside influences..
Go against the grain, make recordings of your horrible mistakes and make them magical, if you hate blues--learn to play blues, same with country, or pop, or cartoon music..If you can't stand to play clean, well you get the point..
Here's the challenge: listen to jazz or classical for a whole week..The idea is not to focus on the latest Vinnie Moore lick, and more importantly, not to focus on ANYONE elses licks at all..You may dicover YOUR voice, when you get rid of all the other voices.. I am not the only one who hears voices, am I?
Refuse to be pidgeon-holed.. Be unpredictable.. Take chances..Vast musical horizons await those who break the rules..
"Why wallow with eagles, when you can soar with pigs."
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
Don't fall for the size, or the illusion of size..There used to be bands(and still may be)that set up dummy marshall stacks with no speakers, and put a mike on a pig-nose in back of the drummer..
I guess we should take the zuccini out of our trousers, and crank small amps that sound really good... Say farwell to fantasy land, welcome to reality..
Don't worry what others think, because all of the great guitarists never did concern themselves with outside influences..
Go against the grain, make recordings of your horrible mistakes and make them magical, if you hate blues--learn to play blues, same with country, or pop, or cartoon music..If you can't stand to play clean, well you get the point..
Here's the challenge: listen to jazz or classical for a whole week..The idea is not to focus on the latest Vinnie Moore lick, and more importantly, not to focus on ANYONE elses licks at all..You may dicover YOUR voice, when you get rid of all the other voices.. I am not the only one who hears voices, am I?
Refuse to be pidgeon-holed.. Be unpredictable.. Take chances..Vast musical horizons await those who break the rules..
"Why wallow with eagles, when you can soar with pigs."
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
# 15
Maybe spending some time jumping around in front of a cranked VT-22 driving a pair of 4x10 cabs, trying desperately to find a 'dead spot' to save your ears from total destruction, is the path to enlightenment!
I found that a 20 foot jack cord was almost long enough.
I found that a 20 foot jack cord was almost long enough.
# 16
I have an Ampeg VT-22 2x12 120 Watt combo and a pair of Garnet 4x10 cabs (Celestion speakers) for sale. Anyone in the Calgary, Alberta area who is interested should contact me ASAP.
P.S. Buy all three pieces, and I'll throw in a real nice 20 foot jack cord!
P.S. Buy all three pieces, and I'll throw in a real nice 20 foot jack cord!
# 17
# 18
The cabs cost me $700 for the pair. The amp was $550 before I replaced all the high-voltage capacitors and installed a quartet of 7027 GrooveTubes. Make me an offer.
If you would prefer to continue this by e-mail, use the link in my Profile.
If you would prefer to continue this by e-mail, use the link in my Profile.
# 19
Originally posted by Lordathestrings
Maybe spending some time jumping around in front of a cranked VT-22 driving a pair of 4x10 cabs, trying desperately to find a 'dead spot' to save your ears from total destruction, is the path to enlightenment!
I found that a 20 foot jack cord was almost long enough.
Well, I'd say if you're playing in a band with a drummer, it doesn't really matter how loud your amp is turned up, you'll damage your hearing anyway. Earplugs are the way to go in that case.
# 20
