I decided I would take the theory plunge because I sound like a bit of a dummy around these parts as I haven't got a clue what anyone is talking about (crazy things like Phrygian, raised 5th, diminished what not etc). So I enrolled in Rusty Cooley's online course on modes - pretty cool as I get to interact with him and get his advice on playing in general.
But, as far as I can see this whole business of modes is made overly complicated by using weird names like Dorian and Lochrian etc. Looking at the course material I've just realised that when I learnt the fretboard using C major as a starting point I unwittingly learnt all of the modes my own way. If I had started and had to learn all of this jargon and strange names such as A7 then I probably would have quit years ago!
Is it just me or is it a bit weird having to learn each mode separately rather than using your ear and looking at the fretboard as one complete grid from 'Day 1'? I reckon if I started learning modes separately like this I would have been stumped and would have ended up playing the same old patterns rather than using my ear to go up and down strings and in and out of modes which is what I do.
When I was 12 I quit playing piano at grade 5 because Mozart and Bach bored me silly - it was also pretty uncool as a kid, kind of hard to impress the ladies with banging tunes such as 'Fur Elise'! I never learnt anything on the piano other than how to site read Beethoven & Co. and how to play major and minor scales. Nothing about modes or chord structures.
The guitar is more difficult to site read on because there are no black keys for flats and sharps like on the piano but once you understand where all of the C's are and where the 5ths, 3rds and surrounding harmonies are then you know the entire fretboard (without the actual note names) because the patterns are the same from 0 - 12. To me that is a far easier way of learning the fretboard - kind of a Dummy's Guide to Modes.
To me most people spend far too much time agonizing over theory and terminology and too little time training their ears and playing/composing original material. If I have to think about music then it all goes out the window and gets boring and pointless in a hurry. It seems like 99% of guitarist I have ever played with knew their theory backwards but couldn't really play anything interesting.
Am I alone on this?? Does anyone actually enjoy music in terms of modes and key signatures?
Theory more complicated than necessary?
# 1
I play by ear, and describe what I play using theory, so everyone else knows what I'm playing too. =P
Plus if I'm looking for a sound, I know which mode to use.
Plus if I'm looking for a sound, I know which mode to use.
# 2
i dont know if this helps but i have been studying modes and scales throgh a book called the guitar grimorie exercise book. in the book the first scale you learn is f major starting at the 1st fret on the low e. then rather than listing the modes by name he has you memorize the patters of each and for f major the mode patterns go from 1-7 but for other scales the order of the patterns are different. so once you know the petterns and the oder in which they appear for each scale the complexity seems to go down quite a bit.
heres the first two patterns as i know them for f major (i know they are sweeping patterns and not the true scale patterns)
pattern 1
||---------------------------------3-5-6-----------|
||--------------------------3-5-6------------------|
||-------------------2-3-5-------------------------|
||-------------2-3-5-------------------------------|
||-------1-3-5-------------------------------------|
||-1-3-5-------------------------------------------|
pattern2
||---------------------------------5-6-8-----------|
||--------------------------5-6-8------------------|
||-------------------3-5-7-------------------------|
||-------------3-5-7-------------------------------|
||-------3-5-7-------------------------------------|
||-3-5-6-------------------------------------------|
heres the first two patterns as i know them for f major (i know they are sweeping patterns and not the true scale patterns)
pattern 1
||---------------------------------3-5-6-----------|
||--------------------------3-5-6------------------|
||-------------------2-3-5-------------------------|
||-------------2-3-5-------------------------------|
||-------1-3-5-------------------------------------|
||-1-3-5-------------------------------------------|
pattern2
||---------------------------------5-6-8-----------|
||--------------------------5-6-8------------------|
||-------------------3-5-7-------------------------|
||-------------3-5-7-------------------------------|
||-------3-5-7-------------------------------------|
||-3-5-6-------------------------------------------|
They say the END is near, but I'm Tired of waiting.
# 3
i feel too many people understand music theory by pattern of the scale rather than the sound of the scale.
being able to hear the difference in intervals and identif them is worth far more than bein able to plug them all out across the fretboard. ( at least in my opinion).
you need to here the music theory not see it, if it is to be any use to you.
being able to hear the difference in intervals and identif them is worth far more than bein able to plug them all out across the fretboard. ( at least in my opinion).
you need to here the music theory not see it, if it is to be any use to you.
# 4
Originally Posted by: Fret spideri feel too many people understand music theory by pattern of the scale rather than the sound of the scale.
being able to hear the difference in intervals and identif them is worth far more than bein able to plug them all out across the fretboard. ( at least in my opinion).
you need to here the music theory not see it, if it is to be any use to you.
It's true a person needs to train their ear and learn the fretboard, thus learning scales by the sound and where these notes are on the fretboard. It takes a combination to both learning music theory and by ear training. A good understand of theory will also make playing other instruments easier. With theory you will know what chords go with what. You will understand how a C9 or whatever is derived and be able to play it without thinking about it. Knowing the scales (most use the Caged system) will let you solo or play licks in those scales. Your ear will tell you what scale a song is being playing in, and so on and so on. It takes a good understanding of theory and ear training. I know people that tune their guitars by ear. I can get close, I need a tuner to be precise.
Also, having a good understanding of theory will allow you to communicate better with other musicians. Music is the a universal language without theory you would be lost. To be a good or great guitarist you need both. Unless you are a BB King that doesn't know anything about theory. Actually he does, he just doesn't know the terminlogy.
This is just my opinion.
# 5
heh... my thoughts exactly. I was completely self taught for about 20 years and didn't have a clue what people were talking about about with the phrygian, mixolidian stuff. When I finally started learning it my first reaction was "that's all it is??"
I already knew all the stuff, I just didn't know the names for em.
Guys would be showing me stuff that seemed really complicated and I'd just go "oh... you mean that doohickey thing with the left hand...why didn't you just say so"
I already knew all the stuff, I just didn't know the names for em.
Guys would be showing me stuff that seemed really complicated and I'd just go "oh... you mean that doohickey thing with the left hand...why didn't you just say so"
# 6
Superhuman,
The only solid advice I can offer regarding the topic, which any musician will truely benefit from;; It would be knowing every aspect of the Major Scale.
That's it. Learn the Function of the Major Scale's 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 total notes. All 7 modes related to the Major scale are in those 7 notes.
Somewhere in the thread, I saw a reference to an A7 chord. Automatically, I
know without a shadow of a doubt that chord stems from the D Major Scale.
The A7 chord is exclusive to the Key Of D. Does that mean it can't used anywhere else? Use it where ever you want. Your ear will tell you what to do with it. Beside relying on my ear alone as the final judgement as the death penalty to the progression, I'm going to focus immediately on two notes in the A7 chord that are behind the curtain; The C# and G notes to see if either are going to clash with other chord notes in the progression.
If so, the other chord could possibly be altered some way. The progression is not related to a single Key anyway, so change it up a little if it works.
A7 possibly getting used outside of the key of D instantly gets flagged as a rule breaker on my fretboard and needs to be monitored when not in Key.
Understanding the function of the Major scale inside and out is what gives you an understanding to how the other functions operate. Minor scales,
modes, chords, etc.....Are all created from One Major Scale requiring another Major scale to change whatever necessary in order to attend their facility and must be in proper uniform for acceptance.
I wouldn't trade my knowledge in Theory for anything (Except more of course)
It offers so many opportunities with ideas for my ear to decifer from. Things I may not have stumbled across hearing by noodling as the main source for Creativity.
Theory is only a tool in my opinion. I try to keep an open mind with it's usage
rather than rigid strict conformity... Creativity at it's finest comes through feeling. And anything with feeling is Alive.................
The only solid advice I can offer regarding the topic, which any musician will truely benefit from;; It would be knowing every aspect of the Major Scale.
That's it. Learn the Function of the Major Scale's 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 total notes. All 7 modes related to the Major scale are in those 7 notes.
Somewhere in the thread, I saw a reference to an A7 chord. Automatically, I
know without a shadow of a doubt that chord stems from the D Major Scale.
The A7 chord is exclusive to the Key Of D. Does that mean it can't used anywhere else? Use it where ever you want. Your ear will tell you what to do with it. Beside relying on my ear alone as the final judgement as the death penalty to the progression, I'm going to focus immediately on two notes in the A7 chord that are behind the curtain; The C# and G notes to see if either are going to clash with other chord notes in the progression.
If so, the other chord could possibly be altered some way. The progression is not related to a single Key anyway, so change it up a little if it works.
A7 possibly getting used outside of the key of D instantly gets flagged as a rule breaker on my fretboard and needs to be monitored when not in Key.
Understanding the function of the Major scale inside and out is what gives you an understanding to how the other functions operate. Minor scales,
modes, chords, etc.....Are all created from One Major Scale requiring another Major scale to change whatever necessary in order to attend their facility and must be in proper uniform for acceptance.
I wouldn't trade my knowledge in Theory for anything (Except more of course)
It offers so many opportunities with ideas for my ear to decifer from. Things I may not have stumbled across hearing by noodling as the main source for Creativity.
Theory is only a tool in my opinion. I try to keep an open mind with it's usage
rather than rigid strict conformity... Creativity at it's finest comes through feeling. And anything with feeling is Alive.................
# 7
