SHALL WE STAND ALREADY?!

First off, thank you all for the warm welcome. It's nice to find like-minded individuals who aren't so brain-washed by all the "American Glory" hype. Now, don't get me wrong when I use that terminology. I like the country I live in. Why do I use the word "like", you may ask, and not "love", as so many devout patriots use these days. Because I'm more attached to the idea that happiness is a state of mind...not a state of location. Meaning, if I were born and raised in Budapest, I may be just as happy, maybe more so. Now, someone coming to this country from a more oppressive country may make the argument that I, being born in a "free" country wouldn't know what it's like to have to battle for freedoms and liberties, or even simple neccesities that we take for granted here, and they would be absolutely correct. But, as I mentioned earlier, true happiness is a state of mind and spirit. Just ask Joe Blow millionare, who to every person looking at him through the other side of the glass, thinks he has the American Dream in the palm of his hand...why did he just blow his brains out in the garage of his 1.5 million dollar estate? I'll tell you why. Because there is not one material thing on this planet that can fill the void in the human soul. No amount of money, power, women, drugs, or whatever is going to make an empty man feel complete. These are distractions to the real matter at hand...making the spiritual connection that awakens the mind. Instead of teaching this to our children, they're taught to work hard and strive for nothing but success, and never let life slow you down. Then the next thing they know, they've been through college, got that executive position they've been working around the clock for, they've got the house they've been wanting, driving a nice car, like the one their neighbor bought two weeks before, and everything looks great...on the outside. On the inside...the marriage is in shambles, the drinking is getting more and more frequent because the family and the work pressure's finally starting to take it's toll, the oldest child is starting to do drugs, and the youngest is experiencing signs of emotional trauma because of what's happening in the home. Everything's spinning out of control. Then comes the divorce, the termination from the job because of the constant decline of performance, the oldest kid is in rehab and the youngest is going to live with the other parent. Now they're alone one night in the house that's being forclosed on and all of a sudden it hits them...they lived so fast and so hard to get it "all"...they forgot to experience life along the way. And in what seemed to be an instant of time, "all" of it had been taken away. They forgot about the wife or husband, they forgot about the kids, they forgot all about the important things in life. I believe that most of the time the important things are missed because they're never really taught. Children are taught to be productive, not intuitive. Aside from school, what do they have occupying a majority of their time?..TV. All kids see on TV is how beautiful you should be, or how you should live like this or that...sex, violence, and any other form of crap you can think of. Sure, there are educational programs, but let's face it...leave a child alone to decide whether to watch the Crocodile Hunter or Yo MTV Raps and see which one they spend time with. I personally have grown to despise TV, or the "brain receptacle" as I prefer to call it. Mindless activity that eats away at the very essence of human creativity. Another distraction from life.

News Radio was cool though.

I pretty much have to agree with you. There's all kinds of stress out there, from family/lifestyle pressures to wondering where your next meal is going to come from and if your next step will be on top of an 19 year old Russian mine. The problem is that when people feel pressure and stress, they look to an external source to blame.

Originally posted by twobone
First off, thank you all for the warm welcome. It's nice to find like-minded individuals who aren't so brain-washed by all the "American Glory" hype. Now, don't get me wrong when I use that terminology. I like the country I live in. Why do I use the word "like", you may ask, and not "love", as so many devout patriots use these days. Because I'm more attached to the idea that happiness is a state of mind...not a state of location. Meaning, if I were born and raised in Budapest, I may be just as happy, maybe more so. Now, someone coming to this country from a more oppressive country may make the argument that I, being born in a "free" country wouldn't know what it's like to have to battle for freedoms and liberties, or even simple neccesities that we take for granted here, and they would be absolutely correct. But, as I mentioned earlier, true happiness is a state of mind and spirit. Just ask Joe Blow millionare, who to every person looking at him through the other side of the glass, thinks he has the American Dream in the palm of his hand...why did he just blow his brains out in the garage of his 1.5 million dollar estate? I'll tell you why. Because there is not one material thing on this planet that can fill the void in the human soul. No amount of money, power, women, drugs, or whatever is going to make an empty man feel complete. These are distractions to the real matter at hand...making the spiritual connection that awakens the mind. Instead of teaching this to our children, they're taught to work hard and strive for nothing but success, and never let life slow you down. Then the next thing they know, they've been through college, got that executive position they've been working around the clock for, they've got the house they've been wanting, driving a nice car, like the one their neighbor bought two weeks before, and everything looks great...on the outside. On the inside...the marriage is in shambles, the drinking is getting more and more frequent because the family and the work pressure's finally starting to take it's toll, the oldest child is starting to do drugs, and the youngest is experiencing signs of emotional trauma because of what's happening in the home. Everything's spinning out of control. Then comes the divorce, the termination from the job because of the constant decline of performance, the oldest kid is in rehab and the youngest is going to live with the other parent. Now they're alone one night in the house that's being forclosed on and all of a sudden it hits them...they lived so fast and so hard to get it "all"...they forgot to experience life along the way. And in what seemed to be an instant of time, "all" of it had been taken away. They forgot about the wife or husband, they forgot about the kids, they forgot all about the important things in life. I believe that most of the time the important things are missed because they're never really taught. Children are taught to be productive, not intuitive. Aside from school, what do they have occupying a majority of their time?..TV. All kids see on TV is how beautiful you should be, or how you should live like this or that...sex, violence, and any other form of crap you can think of. Sure, there are educational programs, but let's face it...leave a child alone to decide whether to watch the Crocodile Hunter or Yo MTV Raps and see which one they spend time with. I personally have grown to despise TV, or the "brain receptacle" as I prefer to call it. Mindless activity that eats away at the very essence of human creativity. Another distraction from life.

i believe it boils down to this, it's a sign of the times.

I agree...it's a sign of something. Maybe Plato was right...maybe we need philosopher rulers. People who govern on principles of moral being...but then again, who would determine the basis of those morals...now we're skirting around religion...I'm not touching that one.

I like the way you think twobone.

Originally posted by educatedfilm (Ali)
What's wrong with socialism?

Nothing is wrong with socialism. In any corrupt society socialism is necessary in order to maintain order and reduce the disparity between the rich and the poor. This is why the west has slowly been sliding into it for the last 50 years.

Imagine a group of people living in shacks right across the street from a group of people with nice houses and sports cars. (this is a big problem in Latin America) The people on the rich side of the street come driving up in their $60,000 cars and disappear behind their gates and armed guards. Now what do the people on the poor side of the street feel? Hatred and jealousy.

In a society like this, a strong government and socialistic laws are required to make sure that the poor don't become too poor. The government could care less about helping the people out of their poverty. The government just wants to make sure that they are complacent and have enough to exist on. Because what happens if they don't? Revolution, of course.

Now in a society that has honest, moral, caring citizens, the guy that has the nice house and cars would look across the street at the poor and think, "Gosh, this isn't right. I should really go over there and help him." He would do whatever it took to help the other guy out, and nobody would need a strong government or socialsim. Capitalism would work just fine.

So how did we get to where we are now? The education system. Just like Mr. Twobone says, we're raised and taught to work hard for all our material things and not to give a rip about the next guy as long as we get ahead. As I said before, if you want to destroy a nation, you do it through the children. If you take away the moral basis for education, eventually no governement will be able to protect us from ourselves.

Twobone: i with you there...
Christoph: We're agreed (yeah i know... it's hard to believe)... I'm just surprised that so many americans see socailism as being "unamerican"... I'm no socailist... I dont know what i am... besides short...

Ed, I like your post. A great qoute from Dylan: "Do I have any important philosophy for the world? Are you kidding? The world don't need me. Christ, I'm only five feet ten." I think capitalism is ambiguous enough in its ideologies that it creates both good and bad. One of the fundamental priciples behind capitalism is that everybody, from any class, has the oppurtunity to become wealthy. If you compare capitalism to the feudal systems that came before its beginnings, this is true to a degree. Unlike a feudal system, where people were born into wealth, and there was no upwards mobility of peasants, capitalism allows anybody to get a job, earn money, and become wealthy. However, what this ignores is that people still do not have equal oppurtunity to earn money. What I think a government in a capitalist society is responsible for is to see that as many people as possible do have this chance, that people are not born into poverty. The other problem is that when people do earn money, they feel that they deserve it because they worked hard. This seems fair enough, but it creates a feeling that if other people are not wealthy, it is because they didn't work hard enough. To compound this, people seem to think that just because they have the right to keep all the money they earn, that it is necessarily the right thing to do. People confusing rights with what is in the public interest is a big problem, as seen in litigation cases. I may have the right to sue someone, but does it mean that I should? Bill Gates (who is relatively philanthropic) does have a right to keep all of his 128 billion dollars, but is it serving the community that he do so? Just my little thoughts, I hope I don't come across as to confrontational, I am merely ruminating.

A lot of us have become terrorized with the recent case of Anthrax that's spreading across this country. It's very scary to not only have to fear for our safety, but for the air we breathe. It's a nightmare, and it keeps getting worse, not because of this disease, but because as American's we have been mislead since this case has spread.

I can understand the intentions of authorities (at least to a certain extent) and some can understand why they refuse to release too much information too soon, because they don't want to see a panic attack across this country. They don't want to give people something to worry about until everything is confirmed. However, treating the American public like children is not the surest way to handle this situation. But doing so, they are admitting that they don't have strong confidence in the majority of citizens in this country.

Public-health bureaucrats have grown smugly accustomed to telling us what we should think instead of what we should know. We have our families to worry about, as we wait patiently glued to our television sets, we want answers, and most importantly, we want the truth. Secretary Thompson stated emphatically that "there is no evidence of terrorism," when news broke about the Florida man who had contracted the first case of inhalation anthrax in 25 years. However, he did not mention that the victim lived about a mile from an air strip where terrorist hijacker Mohammed Atta rented planes or that several of Atta's fellow hijackers also visited and asked questions at a crop-dusting business in Belle Glade, Fla., 40 miles from his home in Lantana.

For some people it's understandable that authorities feel that it's important not to take too many risks, or to toy with the emotions of American citizens. But when our health is concerned, they should tell us the information exactly how it is when they receive it. As American citizens we should be given the choice of whether or not it's necessary to move half way across the country, and we should be given the chance to gather enough information as possible. The prescription for panic prevention lies in letting us judge the risk and what to do about it for ourselves. Truth is always the most effective antidote to fear.

Now the FBI is investigating the Florida cases, and other case around the country. It has taken a long time for everything to come full circle, and its a shame that these acts of terrorism have slipped under the cracks. As American citizens, it's not our job to continuously blame others for what has transpired, however it's very important for us to open our eyes, and recognize what we are dealing with in this world. Sometimes the truth is blind, and we have to find a way to work around that, showing that we are fully responsible to view life in a realistic nature, because at this point we have no choice. It's a long a winding process in regaining our freedom in this country, and we must keep our heads up as we continuously search for answers!

-Joseph

Originally posted by Joseph
A lot of us have become terrorized with the recent case of Anthrax that's spreading across this country. It's very scary to not only have to fear for our safety, but for the air we breathe. It's a nightmare, and it keeps getting worse, not because of this disease, but because as American's we have been mislead since this case has spread.

I can understand the intentions of authorities (at least to a certain extent) and some can understand why they refuse to release too much information too soon, because they don't want to see a panic attack across this country. They don't want to give people something to worry about until everything is confirmed. However, treating the American public like children is not the surest way to handle this situation. But doing so, they are admitting that they don't have strong confidence in the majority of citizens in this country.

Public-health bureaucrats have grown smugly accustomed to telling us what we should think instead of what we should know. We have our families to worry about, as we wait patiently glued to our television sets, we want answers, and most importantly, we want the truth. Secretary Thompson stated emphatically that "there is no evidence of terrorism," when news broke about the Florida man who had contracted the first case of inhalation anthrax in 25 years. However, he did not mention that the victim lived about a mile from an air strip where terrorist hijacker Mohammed Atta rented planes or that several of Atta's fellow hijackers also visited and asked questions at a crop-dusting business in Belle Glade, Fla., 40 miles from his home in Lantana.

For some people it's understandable that authorities feel that it's important not to take too many risks, or to toy with the emotions of American citizens. But when our health is concerned, they should tell us the information exactly how it is when they receive it. As American citizens we should be given the choice of whether or not it's necessary to move half way across the country, and we should be given the chance to gather enough information as possible. The prescription for panic prevention lies in letting us judge the risk and what to do about it for ourselves. Truth is always the most effective antidote to fear.

Now the FBI is investigating the Florida cases, and other case around the country. It has taken a long time for everything to come full circle, and its a shame that these acts of terrorism have slipped under the cracks. As American citizens, it's not our job to continuously blame others for what has transpired, however it's very important for us to open our eyes, and recognize what we are dealing with in this world. Sometimes the truth is blind, and we have to find a way to work around that, showing that we are fully responsible to view life in a realistic nature, because at this point we have no choice. It's a long a winding process in regaining our freedom in this country, and we must keep our heads up as we continuously search for answers!

-Joseph

although you have many great points, i'd like to say one thing. i am still FREE! those bastards are gonna have to go WAY farther than they have, before i become scared. i'm a 100% mule-headed, pissed-off, AMERICAN who feels violated at the wussy cowardly act the little crazed piss ants pulled! i hope they enjoy hell. imagine the look on their faces when, upon their vain deaths, they seen the paradise they inherited. dumbasses! i know this doesn't sound very Christian-like, but mad is mad, and i'm as mad as their new home. anyone who is frightened, or becoming frightened, try this. just look at some of the pictures of the jets hitting the towers, or people jumping from the towers to their deaths. or read interviews with the people who lost someone in the tragedy. it makes my blood boil everytime! and when the blood boils, there is no fear. OSAMA BIN-BOY, YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, PUNK!

[Edited by MorseRulez on 10-23-2001 at 10:46 AM]

Originally posted by educatedfilm
I'm just surprised that so many americans see socailism as being "unamerican"...

Socialism is un-American.

Capitalism is based upon the idea of personal property and rights, and America was founded on these ideals. Nobody has the right to take away someone's property through coercion even if it means that the next guy starves. However, the important piece of the puzzle is charity and kindness. (which are both in short supply these days) America was founded to be a moral society, in which the rich guy would help to poor guy with nobody forcing him. He would do it just because it was the right thing to do. But through years of liberal indoctrination we've lost our morals and our sense of right and wrong, and hence we have socialism.

Originally posted by MorseRulez
OSAMA BIN-BOY, YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, PUNK!

True dat.

I disagree
I think there's more charities and government support for the less fortunate now then there every was in the history of America. I think its the middle-class that gets overlooked these days.

"OSAMA BIN-BOY, YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, PUNK!"
.... Castro, Suddam, Gaddafi, alot of the somalian war lords... they're still alive... I think Ben Laden will prbably join that list... the one person they got, which they really shouldn't have done, was Mr Guevara...

Christoph: I'm not against capatalism, but i dont like the whole concept of a life being run by one thing, GREED...but i like the upward (and downward) mobility of poeple ...Don't get me wrong when i go out to buy a tuner or bottel neck or plectrums or whatever I dont think i have to pay for the "common good" or that I'm some how contributing to an egalitarian society , I'm paying for me... on a small scale it's absoloutly fine, but when you start to deal with numbers with alot of zeros, things start to change... Yes you have a right to own what you want, and your rights are guarded, and so are everyone else... inside the border...

Bardsely: thanks... yeah dylan is quite cool. He was acused by us (the brits) of being an anarchist, "why?" he asked, because he asked questions and didn't give answers he was told, and to be honest i'm not sure how i would answer to that logic... so what did mr Dylan say... "pass the anarchist a cigarette"... a very wise man... :)

Permalink

Yes, classic "Don't Look Back" moments.

Originally posted by educatedfilm
I'm not against capatalism, but i dont like the whole concept of a life being run by one thing, GREED...

Like it or not, that's how it is, and that's how it's always gunna be. It's human nature. That's why capitalism works so well, because it's based upon human nature. Everyone has a right to his own stuff, no matter how many zeros there may be.

The problem with human nature though seems to be that too many zeros try to run the show.

Well, after all these brilliant one liners by Raskolnikov, I think that we should maybe get back to talking guitar . . .