scales verses modes/end of debate.


axemaster911
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axemaster911
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01/30/2007 1:41 pm
I am going to say this one more time, and those who dont understand what I am saying should do some research for themselves. That is why I try to help those guitarists who want to improve, by giving them the most straight forward explanation of the basic techniques concerning the fret board of the guitar. And I know for a fact that my ways of explaining fretboard method are sound, and very effective for giving begining guitarist a quantum leep forward in understanding, and excitement when they hear the difference of sounds their able to make just by grasping the foundation of principles within the diatonic scale, and how this scale governs all music in all keys, and all exotic scales are derived from notes raised/augmented, or lowered/diminished from the diatonic scale. Diatonic scale pre-dates the Roman Empire, and it's possible cave men whittled flutes in Diatonic five whole tone, two half tone intervals. So it's a wonderful way to learn the fretboard, and get really good!
Now as for modes, thats a different subject entirely, Let me give an example,--- In the key G major on the 12th-13th-14th-15th frets there's a four fret block scale that runs from top/low pitch E/12th fret all the way down to bottom/high pitch G/15th fret. Now this scale which has a total of 16 pitches from top to bottom, and 6 more open string pitches,(because the key Gmajor includes all the open string notes within the key, which are--
E-B-G-D-A-E. So that means if you add up the 16 fingered notes within this block scale, and the 6 open string notes there are a total of 22 different pitches you can start the mode from, and a higher number of modal structures can be created within this four fret scale because the note combinations are many, and varied to the tastes of the player, make no mistake about it this 12th thru 15th block scale in key Gmajor is only a scale, and will only become a certain mode when a root note has been selected, and/or a pattern of note selection within the above scale is reached.
It's almost like saying the poor little scale is so lonely, a mode he wish he could be, but untill some one comes to play me I'll remain G-A-BC-D-E-F#G ,
SCALES are not MODES, but have modes within them, if you dont belive me just count the number of scales in any one key starting at the nut in four fret increments, with the scale moving thru all six strings, and then try to count the number of modes in that same scale block using random note selections only within the same first 4 frets, and six strings . You will find that from one scale there are many modal patterns, all using the same notes from the same scale, same key, but starting from a different pitch than the scales lowest note, and in modes you can skip intervals, mix, and match, whatever, as long as you stay within the diatonic scale of the key your playing out of.
Myself, I learn the DT key pattern throughout the neck, and then I start experimenting with many different modes, and note combinations, and octaves always never straying far from Diatonic scale function. You can hardly go wrong as long as you play in key, thow chromatic notes have their place, I would learn the basic scale first, and master it so not to get lost out of key within the song, and possibly throw the band off too..Booooo

And for all those who are far advanced, of the above principals, feel free to add even more instruction, or disagreements :cool:
# 1
aschleman
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aschleman
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01/30/2007 2:55 pm
Didn't the last thread to deal with this get shutdown??

Probably not a wise choice to just go and start another one... Or atleast that's what MY logic tells me... :rolleyes:
# 2
ren
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ren
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01/30/2007 3:37 pm
I like to think that I'm pretty decent with music theory - diatonic harmony and modal stuff.... fine. I still can't quite figure out what you're going for though.

It looks like you start off talking about a chromatic scale, but you talk about it going from the 12th Fret on the low E string (an E) to the 15th fret of the high E (a G). A 2 Octave chromatic in G would be low E 15 to high E 15, and 3 octave would be fret 3 of the low E to fret 15 of the high E. A chromatic scale is every note, so yeah - it contains any scale you'd care to name, but I'm not sure what that teaches us.

What you can do is learn the modes based on how they differ from the Ionian (major) scale, or the Aeolian (natural minor) scale and use that - you can shift key without shifting position and all sorts of cool things with that.

Aschleman has a point man... thin ice.... :eek: It also seems a little egotistical for you to say that this is the end of the debate...

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# 3
Fret spider
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Fret spider
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01/30/2007 3:41 pm
um your point is sound, at least in my view.

but it does seem like you go on about this subject way to much. nearly every post i see you do in the theory section seems to be know the diatonic know the diatonic. and yes what you say is true, but i think we got the point a while ago.

if you really want to make a difference with this write a lesson set or sumthin, tey and make learnin the diatonic fun.

um dont take that the wrong way i am not meanin to be rude or anythin.
# 4
Jolly McJollyson
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Jolly McJollyson
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01/30/2007 5:10 pm
Please refer here for the technical definition of a mode: http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21727
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# 5

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