Guitar improv help/tips

so let me see if i got this....if u play the c major scale on d than its a dorian mode...so simply taking shapes and scales of another key on puttting them on some other key right?...oh okay..i got confused becuz there is this book stating like degrees and interval spelling but i dotn want to get into that yet..
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yeah ur kinda right......maybe i am to jumpy..just want to have the refrence so i know it when i start playing for my church....and i will definitley try that..thanks u all :cool:

okay so i got that riff down...should i improivse on it...speed it up?....

Originally Posted by: buckethead14okay so i got that riff down...should i improivse on it...speed it up?....

After you have played that riff enough times where it feels and sounds good, start speeding it up and incorporate a portion of the riff by sliding into the next pattern, like this: marked as **
E5-E8-E5-E8-a5-E8-a5 a7-a5-a7-d5-a7-d5 d7-d5-d7-g5-d7-g5
g7-g5-g7---*g9*-g7-*g9 b8-g9-b8-b10* then decend back starting with *e8-b10-b8-b10-b8-g9*----etc.
Most experienced players adapt to using a part or segment of the scale patterns and create their style from there.
Your curiousity regarding Modes was stated correctly (D-D = D- Dorian, applied from a C Major scale) Do you understand why? If not, it will come in time. First thing is to understand the basics. Interval theory becomes much clearer once the basic knowledge sets in. A basic explanation to the hill you're climbing is Major Vs. minor, which consist of 7 notes, including modes. The riff being practiced contain only 5 notes (Pentatonic) of a scale. When incorporating those two extra notes, your playing a more dominate sound, If it's a Major tone that dominates, it can produce a happy uplifting sound, creating a good positive charge for most attending church. A minor dominating tone can produce a darker side to your sound..

yeah alright i will do that.....so uhhhhhh major vs minor?....the only thing i now is that minor sounded mellow..lol..ull have to explain waht an interval is...is that like a whole step half step thing?

Originally Posted by: buckethead14yeah alright i will do that.....so uhhhhhh major vs minor?....the only thing i now is that minor sounded mellow..lol..ull have to explain waht an interval is...is that like a whole step half step thing?

Yes. It is also referred to as "Fixed Interval" because it's a formula (never changes).
For instance I'll use these abbreviations to explain a few of the most popular formulas starting from the Root Note. w(whole step), h(half step), w+h(whole+half step). The distance from root note; w= 2 frets, h= 1 fret,
w+h= 3 frets
Major Scale (AKA Ionion mode) Intervals = distance from the Root
w-w-h-w-w-w-h (you can do this on a single string and follow those steps from the first note pressed down and the rest of the notes hit are it's major scale.
Natural Minor Scale (AKA Aeolian mode) w-h-w-w-h-w-w (this formula makes the same note used for the Major scale become a minor scale because of the first half step lowers the third interval a half step back (Flattened)
Major Pentatonic Scale w-w-(w+h)-w-(w+h)
Minor Pentatonic scale (w+h)-w-w-(w+h)-w

wow thanks...that really helped..now when i get those down on a single string..how can i incorparte it onto all six strings?..do i take the next three intervals of that scale and find the key notes on the next string?.

Exactly, although some strings may only use two of the notes for easier fingering mechanics (that's where patterns are formed). A cool trick to use when naming the notes of a formula is to number the notes as well.
I'll use the C Major as an example starting at the root note. C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

Remember, a scale only has 7 notes. The 8th note is the same as the 1st or the root note with a higher pitch,
referred as an Octive ( = 8, an octopus has 8 legs)
This trick comes in handy for all sorts of things. Say the make up of a C major chord. The notes used to make a major chord are the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the major scale, so a C major chord would use C+E+G notes in it's composition. Cmaj7 is C+E+G+B. Notice the 2nd and the 9th are also the same and so on. This trick works for everything major. Use a minor formula of notes numbered to compose minors.
This also works for modes when moving the numbers up in position. So, if you start with D as 1, E-2, F-3, etc., through D-15, these are the notes for
D Dorian mode. Compare these notes to the ones used in a D Major scale. Notice the 3rd note in D Major is F# (# = Sharp) and the 3rd note in D Dorian mode is F. Moving the 3rd note of a major scale back a half step changes the formula and it becomes minor. So D Dorian mode would be minor and sound best in most cases when played over a D minor Chord. Chew on that for a while and you'll get some good ideas. Digest some simple formulas before jumping into the more complicated stuff such as augmented and diminished scales like the Locrian mode (diminished). You'll probably never use due to it's different sound.

:p wow....yeah chewing on that was like chewing on rubber..but i kinda got it...im going to print that out......i got the 1-15 thing and now i understand why they call it the third and fifth and stuff .lol thnak u...so the only difference in major d and the dorian is the major has a sharp f note?...thats it?

wait im sorry...whats the diffrence between dorian and d major again?...like dorian is just taking like the c major sacle and moving it up to d?..wouldt that be the same as the d major scale?

Originally Posted by: buckethead14wait im sorry...whats the diffrence between dorian and d major again?...like dorian is just taking like the c major sacle and moving it up to d?..wouldt that be the same as the d major scale?

If you literally take a C Major scale and move it up to D, you'd be playing D Major. If you play a C Major scale but start on the second note (D) and play one extra on the end back up to D, that would be a D Dorian scale.

The Dorian intervals are: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 8, so as compared to a major scale it has a flat 3rd and 7th.

im sorry....i understand now...so start c major on the second note on add one extra note u can have d dorian........and can u explain what an interval is...im sorry..thank u

An interval is the distance between two notes. So, if we use the C major scale as an example (C,D,E,F,G,A,B) then the note E is a third above C. The note G is a third above E, and the B is a third above G.

The dorian example shows a flattened third and seventh, meaning that the third and seventh notes of the scale are dropped by a semi-tone (1 fret) as compared to the major scale...

Interval recognition is useful, but it's actually easier to work out using arpeggios than scales or chords. If you wanted to find out what a major ninth above A was, playing a major 9th chord would help you, but it would be easier to look at the arpeggio. (and in this poor example, it would actually be easier to think that a 9th is the same as a 2nd, so a 9th above A would be B... :D )

Originally Posted by: buckethead14:p wow....yeah chewing on that was like chewing on rubber..but i kinda got it...im going to print that out......i got the 1-15 thing and now i understand why they call it the third and fifth and stuff .lol thnak u...so the only difference in major d and the dorian is the major has a sharp f note?...thats it?

That's not it.
The D-Dorian mode belongs to the C Major scale because the notes of D-Dorian are: D-E-F-G-A-B-C-D, which are the exact notes used in the C Major scale.
The notes of the D Major scale are D-E-F#-G-A-B-C#-D.
What notes are different from the D Major scale and the D-Dorian mode?
What is the Dorian mode for the D Major scale?

im really sorry about this..i kinda got that....so on a c major scale....taking the scond note of the c major scale and playing the c major shaped would be d dorian....d major would be a diffferent shape

No each mode has it's own shape. C Maj, D Maj, F# Maj all have the same shape. They just start on a different note.

Originally Posted by: buckethead14im really sorry about this..i kinda got that....so on a c major scale....taking the scond note of the c major scale and playing the c major shaped would be d dorian....d major would be a diffferent shape

As Magicninja says, each mode has it's own shape.... BUT....

If you played the C Major scale, but missed the first note (C) and started on the second (D) and played it up an extra note, you would be playing D Dorian. It's the intervals that make the mode, the notes are the same in G Ionian, A Dorian, B Phrygian etc etc

Took me long enuf to understand that
when i did i felt like
"omg how stupidi am its so simple >_>"
lawl
by the way
wat chord i can use d dorian?

hey i got it now!!...the modes are like internal to the major scales.....there IN them...i never knew that lol.........now what i confused with is when i do a major scale on the fifth string the second to last string sounds weird...is there a different shape to the 5 string root/major scale

Usually if you are starting a scale on a root note on a string other than the low E, when you get to the B string you wanna move the pattern up a fret to compensate for the way a guitar is tuned.

oh okay....so u have to change to pattern due to the fact that moving it up one string exactly would give you the wrong note.....

now that i know the modes how do i incorporate that into a solo that i want to make up...lets just say that the key signature is C...how would i use something like the phyrgian mode for C..and what would that be called again?...D phyrgian right?