Guitar improv help/tips

i dont know that much about imprvising on scales...but i do knwo some....so u scratch my back ill scratch urz...if anyone wants to talk full on speed or bluesy..im in...

one question....how to move the a minor pentatonic scale around the board and make it sound like ur own

Well, moving around in scales is all about changing the intervals... You have to be creative, and let lose and be a "little" random about the notes you choose... Though you need to keep a train of thought behind it... The more you try, the easier, funner, and satisfying it'll be. Well, Pentatonics, minor or whatever, can sometimes make lead runs sound a bit "dry", so keep in mind what kind of music your playing.... Predominanty, I've seen Pent.'s used in Rockabilly songs, like Stevie Ray Vaguhn's music... What you can try doing is modulating from the Minor Pent. scale to the blues, as I figure the Pent. Scale is really rhe "frame" of the minor scale. Besides, the Blues scale is derived from the minor scale, and can make a lead run sound great behind m, m7's, 7's, and so on, chords.... Experiment, experiment, experiment... Hope that helps.

PLUS!

Incoperate your personality and mood into it. This may be hard, because at first your still trying to make things sound good. Again, keep trying...

why thank you very much..this is much mroe descriptive than other answers :D ...

yes the blues scale i enjoy very much but on the other hand you move the pattern around anywhere of hat key ur playing in right?..ive only been playing 10 months but a lot of my freinds said im rpetty good for >1 year...
so feel, key, movement, and randomness with a sprinkle of scalar and modular runs right?

BH,

You are correct - wherever you place the first note of the minor pentatonic scale is the minor key you will be playing in. That's why it's important to learn the notes on the two lowest strings.

As far as getting more variety out of the scale, try mixing up the order of the notes as you solo, by skipping notes and playing different sequences. for example, start at the first note of the scale, and play three notes up the scale; then start at the second note of the scale and play three notes up from there. There really are endless possibilities for the pentatonic scale. Be sure to learn all five patterns of the scale so you can play all over the neck in whichever key you are in. I have a free pdf file with the diagrams for all five pentatonic shapes with some explanations on the articles page on my site if you would like to grab it.

Once you learn all of the different positions to play the scale in, I would practice the positions that are close together until you can play them without thinking, and then expand from there.

For example, if you are playing ''A minor Pentatonic'' starting on the 6th string, 5th fret, learn that position really well, and then move up to the next position of the scale on the 8th fret and learn that really well. Then, combine the two positions together, and continue up and down the fretboard until you can play all the positions fluently.

thank you very much...i would gladly like those pdf diagrams...thank u...so are u saying if u take the first note from a scale and move it up 3 notes...u can play there and it wouldnt be out of tune or anything?..

one more question..a mode is just taking the root note from a scale and then moving that postion a certain number of degrees right?...like from A to D would be mixoldiyaydayda?...what is a degree?..and is it the smae as interval spelling?

Originally Posted by: pizzicatopickerWell, moving around in scales is all about changing the intervals... You have to be creative, and let lose and be a "little" random about the notes you choose... Though you need to keep a train of thought behind it... The more you try, the easier, funner, and satisfying it'll be. Well, Pentatonics, minor or whatever, can sometimes make lead runs sound a bit "dry", so keep in mind what kind of music your playing.... Predominanty, I've seen Pent.'s used in Rockabilly songs, like Stevie Ray Vaguhn's music...
PLUS!

Incoperate

His music was not rockabilly....only about 6 songs ever....

Also, players like buckethead use alot of 'outside' (non-scale) notes in their playing. Don't necessarily stick to only scale notes - you can bend an outside note into a scale tone, and as long as you resolve the phrase on a chord tone or similar, it'll be fine....

Originally Posted by: ren as long as you resolve the phrase on a chord tone or similar, it'll be fine....

ummm what does resolve mean..like go back to the pattern?

What I was getting at is that in my opinion you can get away with playing more or less anything as longer as you can do one or all of the following:

Play it like you mean it
Resolve any 'dodgy' notes back to chord tones
Bend any 'dodgy' note(s) back to something in key

I tend to favour options 1 & 2. Its a fine line between a collosal screw up and musical genius in my opinion. Add some chromaticism to your playing, but end the phrase on a chord tone to resolve it best (so if playing in C for example, you'd end the phrase on a C,E or G) or at least a note that's in the scale...

A few 'outside' notes are what give our favourite players their unique sounds. If everyone stayed in minor pentatonic, it would all be pretty samey....

ummm what do you mean end that phrase?...like the song?.....so playing in c means the root is c....right?...

Yup whether the key is Cm or Cmaj the root is C. Learning relative scales and to stay in key are huge when it comes to improv. Also knowing where and when to bend and use vibrato.

relative scales?... :confused: so is that like if u wanna improv i nthe key of a
you need to learn the five shapes right?..then just play with them.."in begginer words lol"

Originally Posted by: buckethead14relative scales?... :confused: so is that like if u wanna improv i nthe key of a
you need to learn the five shapes right?..then just play with them.."in begginer words lol"

All 5 positions consist of the same 5 notes (pent = 5). As you move to each pattern from low to high they just repeat as you move up the neck. Using a part of one pattern, then sliding to the next allows different octives to be used from the same 5 notes. A little practice will make it clear.
One cool trick to use with a scale is triplets. Say Am pentatonic = start @ low E string 5th fret: pattern E5-8 a5-7 d5-7 g5-7 b5-8 e5-8.
Using triplets goes like this: E5-E8-a5, then play E8-a5-a7, then a5-a7-d5, then a7-d5-d7 and so on. This easy technique will make those 5 skinny notes
Fat as hell.

BH,

The first thing you want to do is to make sure that you have those 5 patterns memorized. It is important to know these without any doubts or hesitation.

There are a bunch of ways to keep pentatonic scales sounding interesting. You can use triplets as dvenetian said, and you can also play groupings of four. Start on the first note of the scale and play the first four notes, then start on the second note of the scale and play four notes. Work this pattern through all of the shapes.

ohhh okay so play them in groups of a certain# and then mix them up thank very much is much esier for me now..at my school weve worked on stand up improv on guitar...so i just needed to know what i could do....i have one mroe question..i know that there are certain modes in guitar..like mixolydian and stuff.....so im kinda hazy..i mean certain modes starts at a certain degree right?...can anyone clear this up by showing a picture of this?..thanks to everyone

Let's take the example of C major/ A minor (these are relative scales, ie. the notes are the same). Modes are actually a generalization of this.
If you play notes C major starting from C and ending on C you get ionian mode, from D to D gives you dorian, E to E is phrygian etc. This is also a good way to learn different fingering shapes.
Obviously, you can derive modes from any scale (harmonic or melodic minor, for example), but the ones mentioned above are the most common, except for the 3rd mode of harmonic minor, called spanish phrygian (a typical Y.J.M. song would go from an A minor part into an E major, play some licks in E spanish phrygian, and down the F diminished stairs back to A minor).

Originally Posted by: buckethead14ohhh okay so play them in groups of a certain# and then mix them up thank very much is much esier for me now..at my school weve worked on stand up improv on guitar...so i just needed to know what i could do....i have one mroe question..i know that there are certain modes in guitar..like mixolydian and stuff.....so im kinda hazy..i mean certain modes starts at a certain degree right?...can anyone clear this up by showing a picture of this?..thanks to everyone

Attempting to tackle Modes at this point would be like learning "Smoke on the Water" today and "Crazy Train" tomorrow. When the basics become natural and are executed with ease, your foundation becomes stronger to build on.
Applying triplet or "quad" riffs as Paul mentioned, require focus and mechanics added to simple Pentatonic patterns. These riffs are played in sequence. Try this riff Starting @ Low E 5th fret; E5-E8-E5-E8-a5-E8-a5/a7-a5-a7-d5-a7-d5/d7-d5-d7-g5-d7-g5/g7-g5-g7-b5-g7-b5/b8-b5-b8-e5. Good alt. picking exercise as well starting with a down stroke then up, etc.

Originally Posted by: crazyguyLet's take the example of C major/ A minor (these are relative scales, ie. the notes are the same). Modes are actually a generalization of this.
If you play notes C major starting from C and ending on C you get ionian mode, from D to D gives you dorian, E to E is phrygian etc. This is also a good way to learn different fingering shapes.
Obviously, you can derive modes from any scale (harmonic or melodic minor, for example), but the ones mentioned above are the most common, except for the 3rd mode of harmonic minor, called spanish phrygian (a typical Y.J.M. song would go from an A minor part into an E major, play some licks in E spanish phrygian, and down the F diminished stairs back to A minor).

Nicely Done.

I dont have much to say here, but one thing I've learned from experiance...

...If you mess up, repeat yourself and make it sound like you meant to do it.
Gets 'em every time.