Half Stack or Combo?

I am looking at a new amp...and having a hard time making up my mind...a few amps have caught my attention.

An Ibanez Thermion 120 watt half stack
a Marshall Dsl50 half stack
a Peavy 5150(its old stock) 2x12 combo
a Marshall tsl602 2x12 combo
and a Marshall tsl60 half stack.

I wanna know what you guys think...
does a 4x12 cab really sound that different to the same amp through a 2x12?obviously the speakers in each play a part, (the Ibanez has Celestion Vintage 30's, I love that sound...just added that...not sure why)...but to what extent does the cabinet shape and size alter the sound?

I know I dont need a halfstack, a 2x12 or even 1x12 tube amp will more than suffice for the club gigs I am playing and am likely to play at anytime soon.
I also know how ****ing cool halfstacks look on stage, and even if I dont necessarily need one...I wouldnt mind having one...

so, any thoughts? or anyone have any suggestions of other amps to look at first? (let me just tell you that here in Sa we dont get Mesa, Krank,Rivera, Saldano or Engl...and a few others...I tried some of those in England, and loved them, but there is not a big enough market to justify bringing them out here...still...make your suggestions)

I've got a Peavey 5150 combo, and couldn't be happier with it. It can get freakin' rediculously loud too. It probably will sound closer to a 4x12 than your other combo's listed. It is quite a large amp, and has a closed back, so it has a punchier bottom end than an open back cab. It's also more versatile than people give it credit for. I usually keep the rythm gain at around 10 o'clock, which will give you some break-up if you have medium to high output pickups and really dig down when you play. If you need a bit more gain for some more crunch, just click on the crunch button and there you go. I also use an MXR ZW-44 overdrive out front to help me get more of those marshallesque type crunches. Then there's the lead channel. I normally keep it's gain at around 10-11 o'clock. This channel is great for any kind of hard rock and metal.

Can't realy tell you much about the other amps you listed, since I have little to no experience with them.

I have a half stack and i have a 2 12. I love the boom and the amount of air a half stack pushes but to be honest, if you dont have a roadie to move it for you it can get pretty damn old, quick. Im more inclined to save my money/back/ time with a combo...remember the crowd wont have a clue.

well, I currently have a Laney vc50 2x12, which is also a tube amp...Its really nice, but just not made to do what I want it to do...

it seems to be made along Peavey Classic or Fender tube amp lines...you know, nice classic rock/blues and clean, but it just lacks the balls I want out of an amp...thats not to say it sounds bad...just doesnt do what I want it to do.

I really really like the Thermion, I just dunno wether I should go with that over any of the others...all have their pro's and cons, but one thing Ibanez doesnt have is a reputation for quality amplifiers...I dunno if I wanna spend so much money on a trial run of good amps from a company whose previous amplifiers have been pants.
Also, the whole stack thing will be a mission...loading it into the car...pushing it around (still probably easier than my current 2x12 that has no casters and weighs a ****load.) .

One thing I am strongly considering is to get the Marshall Tsl 602 (2x12 60 watt Triple Super Lead) and then run it into an external 2x12 cab.
Would this create the same sort of effect as a 4x12? how different does 2x2x12 sound from 4x12?

Volume wouldnt be a problem in the least. While it would sound better...as more speakers sounds better but there not gonna touch a 4 12 in terms of bass thumping power...no way to get around it. Some bonus's however with 2x12 cabs is that you can get different speaker combos, easier to carry, the are closed back so does give more thump then an open cabnet. I dont know how to run a 2 12 combo and a 2 12 cabnet however...might take some ohm switching. My personal opinion is go with the 2 12 cabnit, i think its very advantagous for rock music to have a closed back. Do not get tied up into the whole 4 12 stack is the "best" debate...while i can see that once upon a time where there were a lack of in house p.a. systems or out door gigs, anything less then a medium sized venue is kinda like killing a fly with a bazooka, too much. And if the day arises where your get a large enough venue, you can mic it. I know, know, it looks cool...but damn if my back gives to ****s about that.

The best situation is to RENT a 4 12 for 1 weekend ...beleive me its worth it and then rent a 2 12 and use that. make sure you gig with it.

Im one for a nice 2 12 cabnet, but then again my Marshall jcm Slash has some thunderous bass..so .. but i think the tsl has descent bass as well, but i ve been told it can get a little tubby pushing a 4 12.

A perfect case in point is SRV. He has the greatest tone of all time...so thick, full, and really sticks to your ribs. He did it through a 4 10 and 1 15 open back fender amps. His trick was IMMENSE volume. Later he got 200W super marshalls to get the cleanest sound at the highest volumes but by that time his tone kinda degraded to a more synthetic like SRV tone...

I know that any of the amps I am looking at pushes more than enough volume.
And any closed back amp should be able to provide the bass I need...I also have no intention of parting with my cash until I have test-driven each of these amps for a few more hours.
thanks for your advice tho...I am begining to lean towards the Tsl602 and the 5150...now throught to the stores tomorrow to decide which one.

200 watts of Marshall tube power (I belive it was called the Marshall Major) makes my ears quiver with fear. My 60 watt 5150 cab be quite punnishing to the ears with the volume only at 11 o'clock. I'm gonna be a little honest here though. My Marshall 4x12 cab with a head is easier for one person to move around than my 5150 combo. It is a very large combo, and weighs around 90+ pounds. It wouldn't be a problem with a set of casters installed though.

Most combo amps will have an external speaker out for plugging up and extra cabinet. I think a 2x12 closed back, and 2x12 open back would sound great together. I'd get a 2x12 cab from Avatar with an Eminence Governor and Wizard combo. This combo of speakers is modeled after the Celestion Vintage 30 and G12H30. I use this combo in my 4x12, and it sounds great!

But, in all honesty, a 4x12 will be too much 98% of the time. I played an outdoor gig a while back with my Peavey classic 50, along with a drummer, bass player, second guitarist, and singer, and had no problems being heard whatsoever. Also, I wasn't being mic'd either.

I went to a bar not too long ago where the guitarist was playing through a half stack. This was a fairly small bar. If you could have taken an overhead picture of the bar is would have looked funney. There was no one standing in the path of his cabinet. It looked like a 6' wide path cleared from his amp to the back of the bar. It wasn't necessarily that he was playing too loud, it was because 4x12's are very directional. So, standing off to the side of one a bit might sound great, but move over infront of it, and you will hear nothing but what's comming out of the cab. Just something else to keep in mind.

2x12 open back cab's are the best for bar type gigs, as the open back cab produces a more 3 dimentional tone that spreads out more than a closed back. So, it is more listener friendly.

Get two 2x12 combo amps and run them simultaneously with a splitter.

That's what I'm thinking about doing.

One would be clean and the other would be [B]dirty.[/I]

:D

Edited to add: how would that setup compare to a half-stack? :confused:

I was thinking of that...it could be pretty cool...just depends on how much the new amp will cost me...wether or not I'll have to sell my current one

I agree With All thats been said but it all comes down to the right tone/sound for you whither its stage or studio each amp/cab/Guitar can make a diffrence. Experiment with every thing you can to get that right tone. It really can be a madding process but you need to be happy. I dont even want to get into processers and mike placement :eek:

I have had another idea...I went through to a store today and tried a few amps up against the Thermion (which I am loving more and more)

I tried a Peavy XXX half stack, that was nice, but not as nice as the Thermion...in fact it didnt come close.

I also tried a Genz-Benz El Diablo...that was quite possibly the worst amp I have ever played on.
I also tried a Marshall Dsl 401, which I liked...almost as much as the Thermion...it is cheaper, not much, but it is.

Still, the Thermion tops it...I was just wondering...what if I were to buy the Thermion head, and place that on a 2x12 cab?
The Thermion cab is particularly nice...loaded with Celestion vintage 30's and just awesome...but it is a 4x12...which I fear is going to be hard to transport...

Does anyone know of any really nice 2x12 cabinets? perhaps a Marshall 2x12? or the like? what speakers to the putt in marshall 2x12s? Wolverines like in the Jcm combo amps?

does anyone know of any cabs that come standard with 2x12 celestions...preferably vintage 30's?

Originally Posted by: PRSplayaI'd get a 2x12 cab from Avatar with an Eminence Governor and Wizard combo. This combo of speakers is modeled after the Celestion Vintage 30 and G12H30. I use this combo in my 4x12, and it sounds great!

Originally Posted by: Andrew SaI have had another idea...I went through to a store today and tried a few amps up against the Thermion (which I am loving more and more)

I tried a Peavy XXX half stack, that was nice, but not as nice as the Thermion...in fact it didnt come close.

I also tried a Genz-Benz El Diablo...that was quite possibly the worst amp I have ever played on.
I also tried a Marshall Dsl 401, which I liked...almost as much as the Thermion...it is cheaper, not much, but it is.

Still, the Thermion tops it...I was just wondering...what if I were to buy the Thermion head, and place that on a 2x12 cab?
The Thermion cab is particularly nice...loaded with Celestion vintage 30's and just awesome...but it is a 4x12...which I fear is going to be hard to transport...

Does anyone know of any really nice 2x12 cabinets? perhaps a Marshall 2x12? or the like? what speakers to the putt in marshall 2x12s? Wolverines like in the Jcm combo amps?

does anyone know of any cabs that come standard with 2x12 celestions...preferably vintage 30's?

Just An Ideal, Build Your Own With The Speakers You Want Much/Much Cheaper

ah, thanks Playa...I never even saw that...well I did, but I forgot about it by the time I posted again (first time I read it, I thought it was a ridiculous suggestion and threw it away...now I really like the idea.)

I'll check it out.

any other ideas? incase I cant get avatar cabs in thsi country?

I've neer played through this cab, but have been quite interested in it for a while. It's supposed to be every bit as loud and thunderous as a 4x12. Not sure it you could find one in SA though.

>Link<

We have recently started getting Genz-Benz amps in in certain stores...dunno if they bring those cabs in, but it shouldnt be too hard to arrange.
Luckily, the store that stocks Ibanez thermions (yes, there is only one at the moment...maybe even only one amp in the country) also stocks Genz-Benz...so I'll head through and check it out.

Thanks Playa

Playa, let me know what you think of this soultion (I think you'd approve).

I want to get the Ibanez Thermion head, and run it through a Marshall 1930 2x12 cab...this sound like a good plan?
It is slightly dissappointing, as the Ibanez cab is loaded with Vintage 30's and its just so nice...

But this seems to be the best solution...havent tried it out yet, but I have been quoted a very very very good price on the head alone.( I shop through a place that knows me well...they dont keep stock tho and have to order stuff specially...so I try stuff at other shops then order through them...and get it about 30% cheaper than at usual shops)


what you guys think?

May I make a suggestion? Try out a Madison Divinity Head through a Madison 4x2 Minstrell Cab or Symphony Cab....I have one now....alli can say is omg im in heaven. TIGHT bottom end, BRIGHT Highs and Good mids, although I scoop them out. Nice Clean channel too...and loud....LOL...this is loud! Check out my post on the amp.....tell me what you think.

The Marshall 1936 2x12 cab is extremely over priced for what it is. It's even being made with MDF/particle board instead of plywood. This is bad for tone. Plus, it uses Celestion G12T-75 speakers. Not bad speakers for metal, but they can be a bit bright and scooped if you use them with a bright amp. I would definitely look for something other than that Marshall though. It's just not worth what it costs.

thanks man...I'll look for summin different...I dont want a cab made of particle board/chip board that much I know.

and Panda as for the Madison, I saw your post and checked it all out on that link you posted...a very very nice amp indeed, but unfortunately I live in South Africa...and we dont get Madison out here...which is ****...there's alot we dont get...Mesa, Engl,Bogner,Soldano,Thd...Vht...infact the only stacks we do get here on a regular basis are Ibanez Tone Blasters, Marshall Jcm 2000's, and 900's if you hunt around (you may also find a second hand jcm 800) and Hughes and Kettners...and Genz-Benz...thats about it...others pop up from time to time (its getting more frequent)...but there are no agents for alot of nice amp companies...

anyone who can afford and is willing to buy highend gear out here only wants Fender, Gibson and Marshall...we have a ver closed minded market