chord structures

How should I know what scales work over certain chord structures?

Like lets say I play Am, F, G, Am

ofcourse the Am penta will work over that progression, but what else will work?

you could start with the A aeolian (or even just A minor) scale, then go mad and try the C major , which will take you nicely into the G, then follow that with A minor pentatonic to give a nice bluesy end :)

Originally Posted by: pogoheadyou could start with the A aeolian (or even just A minor) scale, then go mad and try the C major , which will take you nicely into the G, then follow that with A minor pentatonic to give a nice bluesy end :)

So you say i should work with different scales in different keys Instead of just say go with a regular Am scale all the way?

the A minor scale would fit with it but when you get to G you might wanna sound a little happier, so a major scale would go nice. or you could just widdle away with the A minor and do a load of legato. it wont fit perfect but it'll sound cool :)

hmm...... Just to make a point.

C major scales and A minor scales are the EXACT same thing.

A min pentatonic is also the same thing, but less notes.


If you want something different play a Bmin pentatonic, Dmajor, or choose different scales for each chord.

Am F G Am is the F major/D minor scale.

Am F G Am is the F major/D minor scale.

:(

Not true.... the G chord contains a B-natural and F major scale has the B-flat.

The only diatonic scale that would fit this progression is A minor or C major.

Originally Posted by: JoeNovicehmm...... Just to make a point.

C major scales and A minor scales are the EXACT same thing.

since noone else is jumping on this, i suppose i will.

c major and a minor have the same notes, but that doesnt make them the same scale. the root is different. one is major the other minor.

A min is the relative minor of C.

Ohh.... I see ;)

It's kind-of like the difference between C6 and Amin/C!

since noone else is jumping on this, i suppose i will.

c major and a minor have the same notes, but that doesnt make them the same scale. the root is different. one is major the other minor.

A min is the relative minor of C.

I was keeping my mouth shut.
You are rigth, the fact that they have the same notes does not make them the same scale, they are just relatives.
The major scale has a different root, tonality, step pattern, intervallic structure and its own cadences.



On another note:

Originally Posted by: JoeNovice:(

Not true.... the G chord contains a B-natural and F major scale has the B-flat.

The only diatonic scale that would fit this progression is A minor or C major.

Those are not the ONLY scales compatible with those chords:
Just to name a few:
E Neopolitan minor
A Ethiopian Geez & Ezel
G Dominant 7th Scale, etc.

Originally Posted by: Swe_ShredderHow should I know what scales work over certain chord structures?

Like lets say I play Am, F, G, Am

ofcourse the Am penta will work over that progression, but what else will work?

A natural minor, A blues, A pentatonic.

Remember tho, that scares are only guidelines for improvising. Usually, to build huge amounts of tension (like in really good and catchy solos) you would ahve to break rank and play outside of scales.

Best advice is to find a scale that works, and then to play what sounds right.

In respect of the English language I would also like to point out that I never said that they were the "same scale".... I said the same "THING." They may be theortically different because they start on different pitches but PRACTICALLY they are the same collection of notes.
I hate having words put in my mouth.

Those are not the ONLY scales compatible with those chords:
Just to name a few:E Neopolitan minor, A Ethiopian Geez & Ezel
G Dominant 7th Scale, etc.

WOW!!! Sounds..... impressive?..... but again I must disagree.

I stated that

The only diatonic scales that would fit this progression is A minor or C major.

Your mentioned "scales" don't quite fit that description. A Ethiopian is the same as A natural minor or Aeolean. Ethiopian Scale and Others G Dominant 7th scale is the same as Mixolydian (as far as I can tell) and contains the same notes as C major.

E Neopolitan minor is a synthetic scale because of it's construction and therefore non-diatonic. Neo. Link Notice the distance between the A-flat and the B-natural are more than a whole step. Not to mention, with E as a root that scale contains a D#. This would sound terrible if a less experienced player landed on that pitch during a solo.

Guitarist spend too much time with their panties in a wad over 50,000 scales and Mel Bays 1,000,000 chords.

I tell my students all the time to simplify their thinking and worry more about the sound of music. Theory is very important but, music came first and theory second.

Who gives a crap if C major and A minor start on different notes. When you improvise you don't always want to start on the first note of a scale, do you?

Originally Posted by: rockonn91since noone else is jumping on this, i suppose i will.

c major and a minor have the same notes, but that doesnt make them the same scale. the root is different. one is major the other minor.

A min is the relative minor of C.

Cionian, Ddorian, E phrygian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A aolian, and B locrian are all the same damned scale.


the difference is where you start and end it.


i know you essentially just said that but i wanted to list all of the modes for myself because i always forget locrian.

When you say something, you have to be willing to own it, and don`t try to play the semantics game.
You said..."

C major scales and A minor are the Exact same thing"

and that was in context with what "Pogohead" said about the Cmajor and the Aminor scale. In that context you said they are the Exact same thing, by definition same thing means identical or equal. I`m sorry to tell you, but the major and the minor scales are not the same.

Then you said..."the only diatonic scale that would fit this progression is Am or Cmajor"...So, if they are the Exact same thing. Why do you name them separately?
And now you are argumenting that the scales I mentioned don`t quite fit the description of Diatonic Scales?
Well, all three scales are diatonic scales.
*E Neopolitan minor
*A Ethiopian Gezz & Ezel
*G Dominant 7th scale
They are not the same thing...they are built differentely. If they are the same; then why in the world have other names?
I am not inventing anything, I am just calling it like it is.
And once again, the fact they have the same notes does not mean they are the seme "Thing".

Then you said...

E Neopolitan minor is a synthetic scale because of it's construction and therefore non-diatonic.

Well, the Neopolitan minor is not a synthetic scale. It is a seven-note Diatonic scale, just like the Neopolitan Mirror.
Some of the scales that belong to the Synthetic group are:
*Diminished
*Arabic
*Jewish
*Altered
*Psycho-acoustic
*Spanish
But not the Neopolitan minor.

And you provided a link to site showing a Neopolitan minor in the key of C.
When I suggested that scale in the key of E.
Then you continued analizing that scale in the key of C to conclude that Ab and B are more than a whole step. So. What is your point?
You should analize the E Neopolitan in relation to the E major scale, because that is the parent scale.
Her is the E major scale:
[E-F#-G#-A-B-C#-D#]
Here is the generic formula for the Neopolitan minor:
[1-2b-3b-4-5-6b-7b]
[E- F- G- A-B-C- D]

Who gives a crap if C major and A minor start on different notes. When you improvise you don't always want to start on the first note of a scale, do you?

Just in case you did not noticed this is Theory Forum.


By the way. Your sarcasm about the C6 and Am/C doesn`t cut it either.
C6=(C,E,G,A)
Am/c=(A,C,E)
Nice try tough.

Here are the facts.

Diatonic - a scale with 7 different pitches (heptatonic) that are adjacent to one another on the cirecle of fifths; thus, one in which each letter name represents only a single pitch and which is made up of whole tones and senitones arranges in the pattern the pattern embodied in the white keys of the piano; hence, any major or PURE minor scale and chuch mode (quoted from The Harvard Dictionary of Music)

This means your "Neopolitian scale" is non-diatonic! Know exactly what a word means.

The other two scale names your mention (Ethiopian, Dominate) are basic modes with different names.


You said....

They are not the same thing...they are built differentely. If they are the same; then why in the world have other names?

Then this.....

Here is the generic formula for the Neopolitan minor:
[1-2b-3b-4-5-6b-7b]
[E- F- G- A-B-C- D]

Is that not the same thing as E Phrygian??? I am sure it is!

By the way. Your sarcasm about the C6 and Am/C doesn`t cut it either.

"C6=(C,E,G,A)
Am/c=(A,C,E)
Nice try tough."

WRONG..... Am/C = (C,E,A,C,E) in open position. The symbol mean C in the bass.

C6= (C,E,A,C,E) in open position...... See?

If you can find all those notes on your guitar and can play them you will see they are identical. (minus the names of course)

Originally Posted by: JoeNoviceHere are the facts.

Diatonic - a scale with 7 different pitches (heptatonic) that are adjacent to one another on the cirecle of fifths; thus, one in which each letter name represents only a single pitch and which is made up of whole tones and senitones arranges in the pattern the pattern embodied in the white keys of the piano; hence, any major or PURE minor scale and chuch mode (quoted from The Harvard Dictionary of Music)

First of all, I have always complied with the rules of the Guitar Tricks website, and in all the previous posts in this thread I have not insulted you, and I am not about to start now, I have no need to go down to your level, you called me "smart ass", and I understand that you insulted me due to your lack of intelectual capabilities.

According to the definition that you, yourself brought up,

Diatonic - a scale with 7 different pitches (heptatonic) that are adjacent to one another on the cirecle of fifths; thus, one in which each letter name represents only a single pitch and which is made up of whole tones and senitones arranges in the pattern the pattern embodied in the white keys of the piano; hence, any major or PURE minor scale and chuch mode (quoted from The Harvard Dictionary of Music)

we can see that the E Neopolitan Minor Scale is in fact a Diatonic Scale.
E major Scale..................[E-F#-G#-A-B-C#-D#]
Neopolitan minor Formula...[1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7]
E Neopolitan Minor...........[E-F-G-A-B-C-D]
As we can see this scale fits completely with the definition of Diatonic.
*It is a Heptatonic scale, because it has 7 notes.
*Its notes are located in the white keys of the piano.
Any Relative Scale to the Standard Major is indeed Diatonic, as in the case of the Neopolitan Minor.

Also, in the link that you so kindly provided for us,http://guitarsite.com/scales.htm,
we can see that the Major and Minor Scales are not the "Exact same thing"
Ionian.....[1-2-3-4-5-6-7].........2 2 1 2 2 2 1
Aeolian...[1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7].....2 1 2 2 1 2 2
After seeing this, How can you say that they are the same thing?

Now in respect to the C6 chord, and the, Am/C chord.
This is the structure of a Major 6 chord:
(1,3,5,6)
(C,E,G,A)

And the Am/c, is a slash chord; basicaly an A minor Triad with a C note on the bass.
(A,C,E)/C

Your sarcastic remark in the comparison of those chords to the Major and Minor Scales is also wrong.
As it has been said before, the fact that the scales have the same notes does not mean they are the same thing.
To understand why the scales are different, you have to understand the basic principle of Intervallic Reletionship.
Here is an example of this in the key of A.
*[1-b3]=A-C
*[1-#2]=A-C
Both result in the same notes(A & C).
But the first is a Minor 3rd interval.
The second is an Augmented 2nd.
That is the principle that differenciate the scales.
And what are scales after all?...a progression of notes with fixed intervals.

I have layed out the facts, now it`s time to move on.

i dont know what the hell either of you are talking about but I do know this. Am/C < could be bitonal........

Originally Posted by: equator
The second is an Augmented 2nd.

How do you augment a 2nd? Flatten the root? This would change the name of the scale wouldn't it??? Lets see. a 4th and 5th can be augmented naturally. Im not seeing it with the 2nd. Do you put the second on the 3rd halfstep?

Originally Posted by: Hambergi dont know what the hell either of you are talking about but I do know this. Am/C < could be bitonal........

Actually, it's not. It means Aminor in first inversion.

It also means A C E and C E G played at the same time. Bitonal.

Originally Posted by: JoeNoviceWho gives a crap if C major and A minor start on different notes. When you improvise you don't always want to start on the first note of a scale, do you?

Please consult me before you post in the theory forum. It would be best for your reputation in this section if you didn't say things like that.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this, but let's start by saying "If I were composing in Cmajor, and I decided to write the melody A-B-C-D-E" and end it like that, you would notice something funny about my composition, probably that it sounded like it was in A minor. No, you don't always start on the first note of the scale, but that IS your root note. C major and A minor consist of the same notes, but they are not the same scale. Music theory is confusing enough for beginners without people breeding ignorance on the topic.