Any Rap Fans?

Originally Posted by: XChris557that was about the biggest load uh bull crap i've ever herd - yer just being dumb cuz u hate korn - and no u cant say that to me cuz i hate rap :D

??? How come it was a load of crap? You don't believe I can sight read the tabs for those songs and play along with the powertab? They're not hard in any way shape or form. "Am I going Crazy" alone should rest my case. So that's how you argue, is it? When somebody takes up the gauntlet and gives a try at Korn's songs in order to asses the validity of your argument and find out its validity, you just say "you're lying" when they find evidence to the contrary of your statement?

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollyson??? How come it was a load of crap? You don't believe I can sight read the tabs for those songs and play along with the powertab? They're not hard in any way shape or form. "Am I going Crazy" alone should rest my case. So that's how you argue, is it? When somebody takes up the gauntlet and gives a try at Korn's songs in order to asses the validity of your argument and find out its validity, you just say "you're lying" when they find evidence to the contrary of your statement?

why not? it works for the creationists.

I'd hardly consider Korns discography as a 'gauntlet' lol.I don't think ive ever heard 'your lying' in a debate on human/universal origin.

I like some of Korn's stuff, but it is all the exact same. if you took out the lyrics to each song, i bet 60% percent of the people wouldnt be able to tell what song it is.

Saying that rap is not music, based on the things you have listened to, would be like me just picking up a new korn album, and saying rock isn't music. Music is something that is pleasing to listen to, something that consists of tones, and notes. Rap contains all of those elements. So how can you say rap isn't music.

Originally Posted by: crazywolf...And freestyling is not only about dissing someone, that is the main focus at a battle, but not freestyling in general. If you have actually heard any freestyles, you can tell a differance between a true freestyle and one that has been thought up. It is actuallu very hard to do. I mean its hard enough to write lyrics, let alone doing it off the top of yout head.

It's like improvising on guitar.

Hey Chris, do this, name all or a few of the rock bands you consider talented, and let folks who don't feel that rap is crap put out names of rappers who they feel are not crap.
Then we'll be able to have a nice discourse ( I can see y'all cringing at the thought of all the "so and so is the best..." threads on this forum).

Originally Posted by: DreamRyche2112There have been a lot of posts about your favorite bands and guitars etc..

Anyone a rap fan?

Personally, i like it, but it depends what i am listening to.

I like Jurassic 5 alot, along with arrested development. Public Enemy, Dru Hill, and the Wu Tang Clan are pretty good as well.

Anybody else like rap or "hip Hop".

what up man this is tipton i love rap it is my first love and rock is second but i like the new rap not the oldie rap from the 80s, ya dig its just not so cool any more.

[U]Rappers that are not crap...[/U]
Swollen Members
Abstract Rude Prevale
The Roots
A Tribe Called Quest
Busta Rhymes
the Wu-Tang Clan....everyone is just amazing, Rahzel is amaing at
beatboxing!! and a lot of the other members are amazing at freestyling!!

Originally Posted by: kingdavid( I can see y'all cringing at the thought of all the "so and so is the best..." threads on this forum).

But So-and-so IS the best!

I never said rap isn't music - unless it was one of my first statments and if i did it's just becuase i wasn't really gunna argue into the subject deeply - another thing - and i also said rap doesn't take any talent - i ment that as apossed to other music and to me it still doesn't - drum machine n computers - they can be instruments but i don't consider them as instruments next to instrument like guitar flute clarinets trumbones wtvr - rap definilty takes knowledge of the machine yer using and u have to no what sounds good - rap beats are pleasing to listen to (fer different people) but i hate the lyrics - i keep reading all yer post and yer putting words into my mouth and thast guy who learned the korn songs did u i don't belive u - and if u did learn them did u learn the whole guitar part for the songs or begginings? wtvr u said - and i don't belvie cuz why wud u go asnd learn the songs anyway - u don't like korn and yu'll never be able to prove it to me - and u would have just done that to prove a point over the internet...
and all u people keep naming off like a couple good rap groups or artist that give rap a good name but could and what wud be the point of naming talented rock bands over "talented" rap bands - rap would get murdered
and what r u talking about the korn songs are all the same - none of ther songs sound the same unless yer brain can't see differences in anything ??? :confused: and korn does not sing about the same thing every time - he might sing alot about his f'd up child hood - and what goes on his head but he talks bout the many things that wrong with him along with alot of other bands - and may i remind u all that the bands is called korn not johnathan davis - and besides he sings his lyrics -.......u get ANY group of kids and u give them an instrument and then u give them a drum machine and all that other crap and what do u think they be able to learn and make clean music out of better the instrument of the drum machine ---- the drum machine - all u need is musical sence and the knowledge of the machine - instrument u need musical sence - isolated fingers limbs mouth hands watever - whats harder to u and then have them make a rock song and then that song thru machine - wats harder

Metallica led zeplin, jimi hendrix, eric clapton, ...i herd red hot chili pepers wer...?? Slayer ...eh lets thro korn N tool in ther fer fun...even though tool is an isanly creative talented ass band - and ther drummer is incredible :D pantera, Apostasy rolling stones... well other than that i can't recall any bands as a whole right now - i'll edit this post when i can andother than that - almost every metal band out ther

This thread is getting stupid now. There's no point in arguing about rap vs. rock. It one of those apples vs. oranges issues. Rock and rap were never intended to be compared. Instead of trying to draw comparisons, can't we just accept them both for what they are. Rap is never gonna be about how difficult it is to create a beat. That shouldnt be the standard of how we judge music.

And a question for chris: have you checked out any of the rap groups that have been mentioned?

Originally Posted by: Homebrew1709This thread is getting stupid now. There's no point in arguing about rap vs. rock. It one of those apples vs. oranges issues. Rock and rap were never intended to be compared. Instead of trying to draw comparisons, can't we just accept them both for what they are. Rap is never gonna be about how difficult it is to create a beat. That shouldnt be the standard of how we judge music.

And a question for chris: have you checked out any of the rap groups that have been mentioned?

I've already herd them b4 but i don't like ther music so i never botherd to check out any more of ther songs and yeah thers no point in arguing over the internet but - and it's not really a matter of judging music - each person likes the sound of wtvr the like the sound of but - most rap is a disgrace - and it makes ther culture look funny/bad/unintelligent ect - AND rock vs rap isn't apples vs oranges - the effort that most rapper put into ther work is less than rock (metal even more) and thats pretty much a fact not an opinion

I just like read every post on this thing (god i'm bored) and u guys put so many words into my mouth lol - yer like arguing bout stuff i havn't said ...just thot it was hilarious...ima go try to entertain myself now ...been grounded with nuthing to do fer like weeks... . ... . ... . . k bye

Originally Posted by: XChris557thast guy who learned the korn songs did u i don't belive u - and if u did learn them did u learn the whole guitar part for the songs or begginings? wtvr u said - and i don't belvie cuz why wud u go asnd learn the songs anyway - u don't like korn and yu'll never be able to prove it to me - and u would have just done that to prove a point over the internet...

Look. I'm a patient person, and if you're going to be a jerk about this that's fine. I don't respect people who can't use proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation to articulate a point unless they have a valid excuse. But then again, I think you do have a fairly valid excuse for not being able to grasp the grammatical rules of English.

I'm not sure why you don't believe me. I did it not to prove MY point, but instead to see whether or not you were right. I wanted to help prove your point that Korn's songs are difficult to learn. I sight read every one of the songs that I just listed, and I'm not going to lie about it and say they were hard. If you refuse to believe a valid point that's not my problem.

Originally Posted by: XChris557I never said rap isn't music - unless it was one of my first statments and if i did it's just becuase i wasn't really gunna argue into the subject deeply - another thing - and i also said rap doesn't take any talent - i ment that as apossed to other music and to me it still doesn't - drum machine n computers - they can be instruments but i don't consider them as instruments next to instrument like guitar flute clarinets trumbones wtvr - rap definilty takes knowledge of the machine yer using and u have to no what sounds good - rap beats are pleasing to listen to (fer different people) but i hate the lyrics - i keep reading all yer post and yer putting words into my mouth and thast guy who learned the korn songs did u i don't belive u - and if u did learn them did u learn the whole guitar part for the songs or begginings? wtvr u said - and i don't belvie cuz why wud u go asnd learn the songs anyway - u don't like korn and yu'll never be able to prove it to me - and u would have just done that to prove a point over the internet...
and all u people keep naming off like a couple good rap groups or artist that give rap a good name but could and what wud be the point of naming talented rock bands over "talented" rap bands - rap would get murdered
and what r u talking about the korn songs are all the same - none of ther songs sound the same unless yer brain can't see differences in anything ??? :confused: and korn does not sing about the same thing every time - he might sing alot about his f'd up child hood - and what goes on his head but he talks bout the many things that wrong with him along with alot of other bands - and may i remind u all that the bands is called korn not johnathan davis - and besides he sings his lyrics -.......u get ANY group of kids and u give them an instrument and then u give them a drum machine and all that other crap and what do u think they be able to learn and make clean music out of better the instrument of the drum machine ---- the drum machine - all u need is musical sence and the knowledge of the machine - instrument u need musical sence - isolated fingers limbs mouth hands watever - whats harder to u and then have them make a rock song and then that song thru machine - wats harder

for hating rap so much, you have the grammar and spelling skills of a lot of the ones you hate.

and i don't care what your opinion is but you're saying that it takes no skill which is something that is not up for opinion. it's a fact that it takes skill.

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

learn the difference between opinions and facts.

sucka.

to the guy who learned the korn songs i barly doubt u couldn't learn the korn songs but you probably have been playing the guitar for awhile - and if u gave a person a guitar who's never play'd and u told them to learn every korn - sure would take em awhile - and i know korn is knowwere near crazy at the music but ther definitly creative and the music definitly isn't "easy" - and if u did it for the sake of proving my point ( which wtvr that was) and and being curious/bored then cool - but u sai u learned all the korn songs (either openings or whole songs???) and u said u did it fast - so

and to the other guy who cares if my spellings bad - u know what i'm trying to say - i only need to worry about my grammer on school essays and such - so who cares - yer just trying to make me look bad like i havn't much more grammer usage than the average rapper ...good one bro - and i'm not saying it doesn't take skill - it takes least talent from any other music - jeziz - i love how people put words into my mouth - i've explained myselflike 2 million times and u all still think what i'm saying is - RAP TAKES 0 talents and skill anyone can do iteven my dog - man i could pick up a drum machine and just make 5 billion dolelr songs ... wrong -

Originally Posted by: XChris557to the guy who learned the korn songs i barly doubt u couldn't learn the korn songs but you probably have been playing the guitar for awhile - and if u gave a person a guitar who's never play'd and u told them to learn every korn - sure would take em awhile - and i know korn is knowwere near crazy at the music but ther definitly creative and the music definitly isn't "easy"

1. Ska is, as a rule, harder to play than Korn -- it's much more athletic, you have to know a lot more theory and you have to play in a lot of "flat" keys to help the horns out. I'm not going to say you're wrong to like them (I love Clutch, afterall), but their Korn's stuff is incredibly easy.

2. This is just off the top of my head, but: Korn stole "Balltounge" from Morbid Angel (breakdown from Angel of Disease), borrowed parts of Blind from Too Many Puppies by Primus and lately their drummer seems to play a lot of really generic Disco beats -- "original" is not a word I would apply to them. "Destinctive" and "innovative" are two different things.

3. "and if u gave a person a guitar who's never play'd and u told them to learn every korn - sure would take em awhile"

Fair enough.

Now go learn a Roots or Jurassic 5 song.

Then get yourself some studio time and re-create Sir Mix-A-Lot's "Monsta Mack" from scratch.

and to the other guy who cares if my spellings bad - u know what i'm trying to say - i only need to worry about my grammer on school essays and such - so who cares

Dude, your posts are painful to read.

It makes it pretty tough to take you seriously.

and i'm not saying it doesn't take skill - it takes least talent from any other music - jeziz

And it's been repeatedly PROVEN that Rock takes just as little talent.

Originally Posted by: Raskolnikov
And it's been repeatedly PROVEN that Rock takes just as little talent.

where r u coming from dude - how can u say that - i mean it can but overall NOWAY

Originally Posted by: PonyOnewell him singing about his f'ed up childhood and what goes on in his head and the many things wrong with him are kind of all along the same vein... and that's what people mean by the same thing... i mean yeah you get a break from hearing about how he has "issues" and hates himself and hates his parents so that he can sing a song like "adidas" which infamously stands for "all day i dream about sex." i don't know. to me that's hardly profound.

much of the good rock out there deals with the lead singer's or band members' problems; Tool, hell, most of their songs are rooted in drugs, sexual hang ups, and betrayal by loved ones. but the quality of their music is far and beyond Korn's.

look, this is what happened: Korn started doing well, and part of the reason they were doing well was that all these kids could relate to their music; they didn't get along w/mom and dad, they were considered a "freak" at their school because they wore black and didn't like to play sports, and they either had or felt like they had problems (coming from someone who's been variously diagnosed as having clinical/chemically imbalanced depression, ADD, ADHD and a slew of other things i can tell you most of them think they have issues).

Korn starts to do really well, and the record company pushing them at the time as well as MTV realizes that there is a big subsection that wants them, so, they start pushing them to the forefront. they get sponsored by apparel companies; how often does that happen with a rock band???? not often. Korn makes a mind boggling amount of money from sold-out tours, multi-platinum CD's, sponsorships, TV/radio appearances, etc.

Now at this point I still don't inherently have anything against them. there are two points to pushing your band into the mainstream: 1) so that your music can be heard and b) because you want a career in music, both of which are normal things. now what pisses me off is when a band stifles its creativity and sticks to a formula that "works;" Radiohead alienated many of its "fans" with Kid A/Amnesiac. Tool alienated many of its fans with Lateralus. Marilyn Manson alienated many of his fans with latex breasts and increasing anti-Hollywood banter instead of anti-Church banter. Korn didn't want to risk alienating some of their fans by progressing musically so they stuck to what always worked: parents suck, sometimes i feel like i should kill myself, i have issues, i'm an outsider, etc.

except now they were big enough that it became just another cliche MTV mass-market bunch of crap, and with it came other MTV mass-market piles of crap. at that point in my life i started to get so sick of everyone who listened to rock moping on about how much their lives sucked when in fact they had parents who loved them and paid attention to them, teachers that cared, and also - gasp! - millions of kids across america and a few hundred at our school who were also "freaks." you know what? back in the 1800's, an Asian person was a "freak" in San Fransisco. Now go there and a third the city's population is Asian! after a certain point your numbers strip you of your uniqueness.

so now you've got one out of every three white kids in america self-diagnosing themselves with schizophrenia, OCD, or as being a sociopath, etc and all it does is belittle the diseases for those who actually have it. now the totally normal feel like they're part of a huge family of other depressed people, and kids that are actually in need of help are commiting suicide and shooting up schools because no one can differentiate between the girl who was cheerleader for three years and now wears black eyeliner and put spikes in her Adidas jacket and calls herself Raven and the kid who's gonig to go home tonight and kill himself.

and on top of this mountain, this suburbanite-funded depressed media juggernaut sits Korn, who are now demigods of the i-want-to-be-disenfranchised 12 to 16 year old middle class kid set. they go on MTV Cribs and are living the exact inverse of what they claim to be; they aren't "street," they aren't "hood," they aren't any of that stuff, they're just as rich as the bling-bling homey G producers and MC's that everyone hates. They drive Navigators, Escalades, Bentley's (oh, BTW, one of Korn's latest sponsors is a company that makes chromed out dubs for luxury cars & SUV's), they live in these palaces that are filled with the latest expensive technological crap, they carry around wads of hundreds that they love to flash around... so i guess that they're just depressed that they have become so successful and touched so many.

they are hypocrites, and probably my least favorite band from an ethical standpoint. plus, i'm sorry, drop-tuning an Ibanez and playing a simple 3-to-5-note lick with heavy distortion over and over and over and making the strings on your bass so loose it sounds like you're slapping your wang against it when you play isn't my definition of "talent." talent is making an instrument sing, not go "bumumumumbumumumumbumbumbumbumbumbumbumbummeeeeeeehhhhhhhhmmmmm." that's what i did the first day i plugged my SG in.


go to a music store and ask one of the guys to give you a five minute tutorial on how to program a Roland/Korg/Yamaha drum machine. In fact, ask to be shown how to use the Korg Electribe B, the one with the red trim; that's a pretty easy to use beat box. let him show you how to use it and then when he walks away, try to do everything again on your own.

people think that with a drum machine you just sit down and push a few buttons and you have a beat; that's not true at all.

Can't ^ belive i read all that - but yeah all that is true dumb A kids want to be just whomever they look up 2 ??? having those problems is nuthing to proud of - they want people to feel sorry for them - but has nuthing to do with what wer arguing bout- and ther bumbumbumbumbumbubmbmubmbu ... thats the head banging parts of the song - they do make ther instruments sing - and they have some pretty hard parts to ther song - unless yer good at guitar and u can pick those up like that - and with the whole drum machine thing - all u need is a musical sence - the machine doesn't really take TALENT to use just knowledge of the machine - guitar and everything else takes talewnts of the instrument to get the same music out AND knowledge - i'm sure u can see that

Originally Posted by: XChris557Can't ^ belive i read all that - but yeah all that is true dumb A kids want to be just whomever they look up 2 ??? having those problems is nuthing to proud of - they want people to feel sorry for them - but has nuthing to do with what wer arguing bout- and ther bumbumbumbumbumbubmbmubmbu ... thats the head banging parts of the song - they do make ther instruments sing - and they have some pretty hard parts to ther song - unless yer good at guitar and u can pick those up like that - and with the whole drum machine thing - all u need is a musical sence - the machine doesn't really take TALENT to use just knowledge of the machine - guitar and everything else takes talewnts of the instrument to get the same music out AND knowledge - i'm sure u can see that

Having worked with many a drum machine, I can say you are flat out wrong. Drum machines are terribly difficult to be creative with, and a lot of rappers have done an AMAZING job keeping beats original (forget about remixes and whatnot, I'm talking about self-written beats). There are ZERO hard parts to any Korn song unless you are an ABSOLUTE beginner. Most of their songs involve INCREDIBLY repetitive instruments, and boring, emotionless basslines. Stevie Ray Vaughn makes his instrument SING. Iron Maiden make their instruments SING (complicated counterpoint harmonies to be exact). Korn makes their instruments drop trow and squeeze a loaf on the sidewalk, which was cool until they did it 9,000 times and now one cannot WALK on that sidewalk without stepping in instrument excrement. I see what you mean about the drum machine taking knowledge, but you don't realize that it takes talent as well. You said it yourself: "It takes musical sense and knowledge of the machine." Well, musical sense IS talent. That's what a talented guitar player is, it's a player with great musical sense. Therefore you've proven yourself wrong. It requires the same amount of talent or musical sense to be a great rap artist as it does to be a great rock artist.