Any Rap Fans?

uh rock is definitly music rap is music 2 - i just don't feel the same about it becuase they have made it way to simple to make music (some buttons (i'm exagerating a little) and i'm saying that as rap as a whole and definitly mainstreem rap - do u not agree - all i'm saying is rap takes the least talent of any other genra of music do u agree or not - and the way they make it i don't respect NEARLY as much as how all other music is made and my respect is close 2 zero

Listen to rask, check out some undergorund rap, where they stream out words right off the tip of their tongue. Also alot of rap bands use some pretty cool beats, check out public enemy and some nwa, there's alot of interesting stuff there.

It's tough dude.

Originally Posted by: DreamRyche2112Listen to rask, check out some undergorund rap, where they stream out words right off the tip of their tongue. Also alot of rap bands use some pretty cool beats, check out public enemy and some nwa, there's alot of interesting stuff there.

It's tough dude.

i never said it didn't sound cool - i like alot of the rap beats out ther and when the words acully mean sumthing i like them 2 - and the whole free style think is stupid to me 2 - i mean it is a natual born talent mostly - but all they free style about is how much the other person sucks and how cool they are - show me a guy who can freestyle bout things that matter instead of u suck i'm cool and i will be impressed with that - but of course ther free style was probably thought up ahead uh time anyways :(

Originally Posted by: XChris557i just don't feel the same about it becuase they have made it way to simple to make music (some buttons (i'm exagerating a little) and i'm saying that as rap as a whole and definitly mainstreem rap - do u not agree

I'm sorry, but Rock started just as simple -- 12 bar blues, and not even with a quick IV -- and consistantly goes through phases where it becomes just as simplistic. You're consistantly talking about Rap "as a whole and especially the mainstream stuff" but how about the redundant, derrivative load of crap Nu-Metal has become (assuming you're not one of the folks who feel it started that way), what about all of the "The" bands that are so big right now? All of that stuff is incredibly simple and formulaic -- no different than mainstream Rap.

You get upset when people talk about Korn this way, why are you so eager to do the same thing to the genre of Rap, of which you've heard only a tiny fraction of what's out there?

all i'm saying is rap takes the least talent of any other genra of music do u agree or not - and the way they make it i don't respect NEARLY as much as how all other music is made and my respect is close 2 zero

No, I don't agree and I think both Pony and I have done a good job of proving that in ANY genre it comes down to what the artist is willing to put into it. Some put in more, some less. Some rappers are actually sick and twisted enough to [successfully] rap to Candiria tracks (nevermind that the dudes in Candiria like to listen to and sometimes write Hip-Hop, themselves).

I really don't see how you have a leg to stand on, here.

I was a huge rap fan back in my teen years during the west coast gangsta era in the early 90's. As the 90's progressed, I lost complete interest in the genre and moved to rock exclusively.

A buddy of mine in college was completely into rap, and sort of rekindled what I had completely dismissed. Since he was so completely into rap, I decided to play some Vai for him (figuring he'd hate it) just to start the ol' rap sucks debate. I still remember his post-Vai reply verbatim, "Good is Good".

That still sticks with me because he was listening to the music void of any preconceived notions. Since then I've adopted that policy and stopped prejudging bands and their music before I get a thorough chance to give it a fair trial.

Originally Posted by: XChris557- and the whole free style think is stupid to me 2 - i mean it is a natual born talent mostly - but all they free style about is how much the other person sucks and how cool they are - show me a guy who can freestyle bout things that matter instead of u suck i'm cool and i will be impressed with that - but of course ther free style was probably thought up ahead uh time anyways :(

You think it is a natural born talent for anyone and everyone to be able to freestyle? That dosent even make any sence. Thats like saying its a natural for everyone to be real talented musically, or that it is a natural talent for everyone to be able to work on cars. Some people have to work a lot harder at these things than others, and with some people the skill somes quite naturally. And freestyling is not only about dissing someone, that is the main focus at a battle, but not freestyling in general. If you have actually heard any freestyles, you can tell a differance between a true freestyle and one that has been thought up. It is actuallu very hard to do. I mean its hard enough to write lyrics, let alone doing it off the top of yout head.

Ok,so we have rap posuers(most mainstream) and rock posuers(nu metal,bandwagon junk)...

Its not hard to find talented underground rock or metal that blows away commercial bands that reside on obscure lables...but with underground rap,is there a real difference in talent on more obscure lables than what floats in the sceptic tank?

Originally Posted by: crazywolfYou think it is a natural born talent for anyone and everyone to be able to freestyle? That dosent even make any sence. Thats like saying its a natural for everyone to be real talented musically, or that it is a natural talent for everyone to be able to work on cars. Some people have to work a lot harder at these things than others, and with some people the skill somes quite naturally. And freestyling is not only about dissing someone, that is the main focus at a battle, but not freestyling in general. If you have actually heard any freestyles, you can tell a differance between a true freestyle and one that has been thought up. It is actuallu very hard to do. I mean its hard enough to write lyrics, let alone doing it off the top of yout head.

Not what i said - i said the people who can freestyle seems to be mostly a born talents for them that they can think up words like hoe slut u suck right of the top of ther head - i have herd alot of rap\freestyle on tv and off - was never like wow - but i asked u if u can show me some freestyle that talks about meaningful stuff and i shall be impressed -

Originally Posted by: RaskolnikovI'm sorry, but Rock started just as simple -- 12 bar blues, and not even with a quick IV -- and consistantly goes through phases where it becomes just as simplistic. You're consistantly talking about Rap "as a whole and especially the mainstream stuff" but how about the redundant, derrivative load of crap Nu-Metal has become (assuming you're not one of the folks who feel it started that way), what about all of the "The" bands that are so big right now? All of that stuff is incredibly simple and formulaic -- no different than mainstream Rap.

You get upset when people talk about Korn this way, why are you so eager to do the same thing to the genre of Rap, of which you've heard only a tiny fraction of what's out there?



No, I don't agree and I think both Pony and I have done a good job of proving that in ANY genre it comes down to what the artist is willing to put into it. Some put in more, some less. Some rappers are actually sick and twisted enough to [successfully] rap to Candiria tracks (nevermind that the dudes in Candiria like to listen to and sometimes write Hip-Hop, themselves).

I really don't see how you have a leg to stand on, here.

First of all all music starts sumwer - and i still respect blues more than rap - it might of not been as tuff - and definitly not live shows - but rap started off alot more respectful and talented then it is now - more of them wer talking bout real things or at least not repeating everything every other rapper says all the time - and yeah rap can be as good as what they want to put into it problem is they don't put to much into it - and thats another reason i don't think to much of rap :( and wats wrong with korn's talent - they play instrument like any other band and is definitly creative -limp bizkit i hate but ther doing ther own thing - they also have a skratcher for ther music - i totally exept that becuase it's an instrument - but the rappers that have that on stage when they do ther gig - the scratcher doesn't even matter to the people - so - and todays stupid emo bands and all that crap (giving rock a bad name) still play instrument together to make song like other bands ther just sissy's bout it and if u say korn whines lol he whines bout serious things and he doesn't do it even half the time on ther records - so all in all just answer the simple question - or keep arguing... :o Does Rap (as a whole) take more talent than ROCK (as a whole) my answer NO - it's definitly rock and i have no clue how u can disagree

i hate main-stream rap.

Some decent rap is like some people meantioned (J-5).

But I'de hafta say my favorite rapper is Aesop Rock.
He rhymes about real life stuff instead of .Ass, Ass, titty titty shoot you in the face rap.

Aesop is like the progressive rock... of rap

Some of ya'll sound like you feel cheated that rappers (as well as Korn or "emo" bands) are so successful making such "simple" music. Like Raskolnikov said, rock can be just as simple. I mean Smells like Teen Spirit is no more complicated than a typical rap song. And who said music needs to be complex? You can't dismiss a band or a whole style of music just because it's not tha hardest thing to play/make. If you don't like rap, dont hate the rappers, hate the people who buy the albums. They make the rappers as successful as they are.

Now for those of you who are interested in finding out more about the quality rap/hip hop out there I have a couple suggestions.

The Roots - check out the album "Things Fall Apart". A group from Philly that raps over music, rather than generated beats. More hip/hop than rap really.

Nas - the Illmatic album. His first album is amazing i think. He talks about life in the streets and doesn't spare you many harsh details, but he does it without being negative. He's a story teller.

And I'm pretty sure there's not many Linkin Park fans here, but the Reanimation album is really a cool one. It's their whole first album but remixed. It features a ton of different (respected) underground mcs and producers. Each song is done by a different producer and MC, so each song is kinda each producer's interpretation of the song.

check this stuff out!!

Originally Posted by: XChris557First of all all music starts sumwer - and i still respect blues more than rap - it might of not been as tuff - and definitly not live shows - but rap started off alot more respectful and talented then it is now - more of them wer talking bout real things or at least not repeating everything every other rapper says all the time - and yeah rap can be as good as what they want to put into it problem is they don't put to much into it[/quote]
Again, you insist on making generalizations that 1. are based on a small selection of what's actually out there and 2. simply aren't true.

Yeah, there isn't very much mainstream Rap out there worth listening to at the moment. There isn't much mainstream Rock (or Country, or Punk, or "Metal") worth listening to, either.

"She Thinks My Tractor is Sexy" is a lot more marketable than Hank Williams III singing about getting thrown out of bars or how the Nashville establishment is a bunch of phonies who care more about money than the music; Good Charlotte is easier to sell than GG Allin; Suburban Legends is more marketable than Streetlight Manifesto; and yes, Nelly goes down a lot easier than Dr. Octogon just like Puddle of Mudd is a lot easier for the masses to listen to than Candiria.

The point is you are no more correct when you say "yeah rap can be as good as what they want to put into it problem is they don't put to much into it" than my grandmother is when she calls Heavy Metal "nothing but a bunch of noise and screaming."

Originally Posted by: XChris557and wats wrong with korn's talent

Not to take anything away from the boys, but their stuff isn't exactly hard to play (or maybe I've been spending too much time playing Primus and Iron Maiden basslines) and they've borrowed heavily from some bands that came before them.

The point not that there's anything wrong with that, it's that what you're saying about Rap is just as easily applied to a lot of the music you listen to.


[QUOTE=XChris557]Does Rap (as a whole) take more talent than ROCK (as a whole) my answer NO - it's definitly rock and i have no clue how u can disagree

Because the answer is neither.

I can sit down right now and crank out a listenable, pathetically easy to play rock song complete with trite, mindless lyrics in about fifteen minutes. If I did it in Dropped D, it might even be a hit.

Of course, that's not how I do things, but it's not hard at all and that sort of thing is pretty popular right now.

Originally Posted by: PonyOnefieldy seemed to be doing okay when he was on celebrity cribs and flashing all his money around... hey you wanna talk about someone who's a bling-bling, look-at-me-i'm-loaded ponce then he's just as bad as Ja-Rule or Germain DuPree.

And a lot faster to complain about how tough it is to be famous.

The whole backtracking thing ... my first statement was rap sucks - then in got into an arguement so a detailed my feeling toward it the more i went on - i don't hate rap i think it sucks compared to all the other stykles of music out ther - to me it's an easy way out of making good songs - I want them to learn an instrument which was how music was started ..with singing or instruments - teen spyrit is simple but they still make music with instruments together and is still harder to make then the majority of rap

And to all other little things u say - korn stuff isn't simple ... some riffs they have are of course but none of ther songs are simple - u go and learn one of ther songs and say that was easy - unless yer a pro - which takes effort ;) it's not gunna happen - and that whole playing 3 chords over and over again hitting bass string more talented crap? well i'm sure u give some rapper a guitar drums bassect he wont no wat to do with it - except for the ones who acully do play instrument - dr. dre being one like someone said - i like the beats of rap...well half of them but the words can just leave cuz no one needs them and i think it's hilarious that these girls are singing to lyrics that are calling them hoes bitches and skanks - so - MY OPINION IS.... RAP DOESN'T TAKE AS MUCH TALENT AS EVERYOTHER MUSIC FORM AS A WHOLE...IN THIS CASE ROCK...EVEN THOUGH I DO LISTEN TO SOME OF IT. I DO NOT RESPECT THE WAY THE MUSIC IS MADE. I HATE ALOT OF ROCK BANDS BUT I DO RESPECT THEY WAY THEY MAKE MUSIC. so thats my statment. oh yeah an fieldy i really don't know wat his deal is ??? but i love his bassist style - the whole band works awsome together wether u like em not -

Let me see if this is more of what i'm trying to argue - THE WAY RAP IS MADE IS EASIER THAN THE WAY ROCK IS - SOME RAPPER COULD HAVE MORE MUSICAL TALENT THAN ROCKERS AND OTHER FORMS OF MUSICIANS BUT THE WAY THEY MAKE THER MUSIC IS 2 EASY TO RESPECT NEXT TO OTHER FORMS - i think that says what i was arguing about a little better - but i still belive rockers have more musical talent than rappers do - see like linkin park and limp bizkit rap ...OVER MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS - thats what i'
m looking for - even tho i don't like those bands - limp bizkit is cool ...minus fred durst...now people like tupac and other i don't know the name of i can respect as poets but if yer just gunna sit ther and make a beat with a sound generater er wat not and throw some lyrics over it that are the same lyrics every other rapper use - then wats the point - u got the same message over a different beat...stupid....now if ther was only one person that talked bout bitches n hoe then way to go fer him but ....

Originally Posted by: XChris557And to all other little things u say - korn stuff isn't simple ... some riffs they have are of course but none of ther songs are simple - u go and learn one of ther songs and say that was easy - unless yer a pro - which takes effort ;) it's not gunna happen -

Really? Because I just sight read their entire repetoire on powertab in alphabetical order. Here is a list of songs I just finished playing the parts to:

A.D.I.D.A.S.
All In the Family
Alone I Break
Am I Going Crazy
Ass Itch
B.B.K.
Ball Tongue
Beg For Me
Blame
Blind
Bottled Up Inside
Break Some Off
Chi
Children of the Korn
Clown
Counting
Dead Bodies Everywhere
Did My Time
Divine
Earache My Eye
Freak On A Leash
Good God
Got the Life
Here it Comes Again
Here to Stay
Hey Daddy
Hollow Life
It's On
Justin
K@#0%!
Kill You
Korn.com Theme
Let's get this Party Started
Lowrider
Make Me Bad
My Gift to You
Need To
No One's There
No Place to Hide
No Way
One (Which I already know, so no need to play it again)
Porno Creep
Pretty
Reclaim My Place
Right Now
Shoots and Ladders
Somebody Someone
Thoughtless
Trash
Twist
Wake Up Hate
Word Up
Y'all Want a Single

I have yet to see a difficult one, and I'm definitely no pro.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonReally? Because I just site read their entire repetoire on powertab in alphabetical order. Here is a list of songs I just finished playing the parts to:

A.D.I.D.A.S.
All In the Family
Alone I Break
Am I Going Crazy
Ass Itch
B.B.K.
Ball Tongue
Beg For Me
Blame
Blind
Bottled Up Inside
Break Some Off
Chi
Children of the Korn
Clown
Counting
Dead Bodies Everywhere
Did My Time
Divine
Earache My Eye
Freak On A Leash
Good God
Got the Life
Here it Comes Again
Here to Stay
Hey Daddy
Hollow Life
It's On
Justin
K@#0%!
Kill You
Korn.com Theme
Let's get this Party Started
Lowrider
Make Me Bad
My Gift to You
Need To
No One's There
No Place to Hide
No Way
One (Which I already know, so no need to play it again)
Porno Creep
Pretty
Reclaim My Place
Right Now
Shoots and Ladders
Somebody Someone
Thoughtless
Trash
Twist
Wake Up Hate
Word Up
Y'all Want a Single

I have yet to see a difficult one, and I'm definitely no pro.

that was about the biggest load uh bull crap i've ever herd - yer just being dumb cuz u hate korn - and no u cant say that to me cuz i hate rap :D

I wouldn't doubt being able to pick off the opening riffs to all those...it shouldn't take more than 30 second a piece.Korn isn't virtuoso material or anything :rolleyes:

here's a fun history of rap!

people can't afford instruments...they start buying these really cheap drum machines and dj's are starting to loop and scratch more and more and turn it into a skill. the kids who had the cheap drum machines started getting really good at creating their beats and making them sound good...those drum machines later became really expensive because those kids who got them when they were cheap used them...say like the 808.

as far as the argument of whether rap is good or not, it's an ignorant statement to completely dismiss any genre as being completely devoid of talent or intellegence. if you want some intellegence with your rap and real instruments, check out 2 skinnee j's and the other bands that were mentioned who play their instruments and rap (i believe jurassic 5 and the roots?).

oh yeah...and for the person(s) that mentioned sugar hill gang....they were the led zeppelin of early rap...they stole lyrics from others and got popular off of them...i believe rapper's delight was ripped from the furious five...if i'm not mistaken about what group it was. then again, they were still important in the long run with making rap mainstream....but still not cool to rip off your friends and give them no credit. just sayin'.