Guitartricks Electoral College

like i said before (some seem to have not read my post)....Even if i wasnt of christian faith..I still think its wrong..I wasnt here to "change the direction of the thread" i simply stated my opinion that i dont believe in gay marriage
I think its wrong, not because christ or god said so (I have had these beliefs before I even went over to the christian religion), I just think its wrong...to me and some others..marriage is a union of man and women..not man and man..not woman and woman..like i stated before..they can call it what they want but dont call it marriage
but im finished arguing and leavin this thread alone...this could go on and on and on..we all have our opinions and I seriously doubt that we will all agree on one thing

Originally Posted by: ketsueki15like i said before (some seem to have not read my post)....Even if i wasnt of christian faith..I still think its wrong..I wasnt here to "change the direction of the thread" i simply stated my opinion that i dont believe in gay marriage
I think its wrong, not because christ or god said so (I have had these beliefs before I even went over to the christian religion), I just think its wrong...to me and some others..marriage is a union of man and women..not man and man..not woman and woman..like i stated before..they can call it what they want but dont call it marriage
but im finished arguing and leavin this thread alone...this could go on and on and on..we all have our opinions and I seriously doubt that we will all agree on one thing

Would you disagree with a gay couple having the same rights as a straight couple though provided it wasn't called a "marriage"? ....civil union...domestic partnership....etc

Originally Posted by: ketsueki15
but im finished arguing and leavin this thread alone

please read the above

fair enough.

wasn't trying to argue, I just didn't understand the scope of your position on this issue aside from you not agreeing with homosexuality.

this topic is just about dead so i'll leave it with these thoughts:

at this point i don't even care what we're talking about, we could be discussing why it's wrong to burn ants with a magnifying glass for all i care. its the process of critical thinking that interests me. when someone says:

"i think (blank) is wrong."
"ok, why is that?"
"it just is."
"well yes you said that, but there must be a reason. convictions just don't spring up out of nowhere."

maybe it the patterns in the world around us. male and female are linked together all over the animal kingdom. but humans are different from animals. but we're still animals in a way. but we're also logical beings that break many of nature's rules. what about natural instincts and impules toward the opposite or same sex, where do those come from? the grandness of evolution seems to have paired off male and female together pretty well, and yet there are some people who are attracted to the same sex. i guess nature is pretty odd sometimes. speaking of, what about nature vs. nurture?

whatever the reason, it exists, and it seems to have existed for a very long time, perhaps even back to the earliest records of human history. the point is, you gotta throw the logic in reverse and get to the beginning, the source for why that particular belief exists in you given all of one's experiences and conditioning.

why do we think some things are wrong and some things right? have you ever thought about it? its strange. i like buddism's answer. if the purpose of life is to find happiness and peace while not harming yourself or others, then something is wrong if it hurts you or someone else. there are no metaphysical judgements on concepts or ways of living so long as they help bring about personal happiness. what, then, is there to be offended about?

Originally Posted by: HammurabiThe bible condemns homosexuals to death. Christains shouldn't be allowed to speak in these debates.

First I'm going to look at your argument from a logical standpoint. You're jumping to conclusions. First of all not all "Christains" believe that homosexuals should be sentenced to death, and you can't exclude an entire group of people from a discussion just because you think their religious background is biased. That's like me saying "people who believe Homosexual marriage is good don't like people who believe homosexual marriage is wrong. People who believe Homosexual marriage is good shouldn't be allowed to speak." You're excluding a HUGE group of people who may have important things to say. Second of all, the bible never condems homosexuals to death, I've read it cover to cover several times now, and nothing says "homosexuals die" The bible refers to sleeping with a man as a sin. HOWEVER, the bible also states that everyone is a sinner. In addition, the bible states that sinners who repent will be forgiven. From this we can draw the conclusion that if a homosexual is a good person, Christianity cannot condemn him because although he may have sinned sexually with another man, perhaps his faith and good deeds outweigh one tiny sin. But that's just my take, and ANYONE can feel free to respond, I'm not going to just exclude people based on my opinion.

lets clear this up..leviticus 20:13 says
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"
yes this phrase clearly states that homosexuals should be put to death if they have sex with the same gender BUT you must also know that Leviticus is from the old testament ....This was the time period before christ came and before there was no such thing as forgiveness...since christ has died for all mans sins, there is forgiveness
like jolly said...everyone is a sinner (except jesus) and anyone can be forgiven of there sins.

Originally Posted by: ketsueki15BUT you must also know that Leviticus is from the old testament

Badabing buddy, the mosaic Law no longer applies. Don't bring up old doctrine that's been nullified.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonDon't bring up old doctrine that's been nullified.

read mat 5:18

that was also for the ones who didnt know that

Originally Posted by: ketsueki15read mat 5:18

That's the verse I was refering to. "Death" is not mentioned. And don't bring up "The Wages of sin is death" because then we get into ANY sin, and obviously almost all sins (Exception: suicide) can be forgiven.

What's the relevance of the contents of the bible in this discussion anyway? The only thing it explains is where some people get spoondfed their opinion on this matter.

Originally Posted by: ketsueki15BUT you must also know that Leviticus is from the old testament ....This was the time period before christ came and before there was no such thing as forgiveness

Ya, and most of the 10 commandments aren't taken as seriously any more either (also stated in the old testament) such as adultery (Ok... how many affairs have their been in the last 3000 something years that haven't been taken religiously? MANY...) honor mother and father (well just about every teen in the world has talked out to their parents AND hasn't had their sins clensed) and not Covet something that belongs to your neighbor? I mean really.... if I see my neighbor drive in with a porsche, or in my case how about..... Az puling into his house (pretend he lives next to me...) with The Dragon obviously I'm gonna covet that! Does that mean I am doomed to head to the underworld when I die?

Another thing I should say before going any further, I haven't entirely read all these posts (this is my first time postin' in this thread) so don't blame me if I say something somebody already said.

My mom once said to me (who works at a church). "The new and old testament are extremely different. God went from a terrifying leader who said everyone was going to H*** (excuse me there was nothing else I could say - The Ace), to being someone who said everyone would be saved by grace." In the bible, this is really true.

Ok now my thought on homosexuals - everything is their own business. If you have a problem with them getting married, having sexual intercourse then don't have anything to do with them. Simple as that. You may have your own opinion, but they shouldn't have to suffer because "You follow the bible" or "It says no in the constitution." Most of that stuff is centuries or more old... Time's have changed. We don't burn someone because we think she's a witch anymore (Though sometimes I wish that we could do that to iiholly.... jk :D ).

I saw a sign up somewhere that said "God is not a republican. Or a Democrat." Well I hope your not taking religion in consideration when voting, the church and the government are seperate things.

Ekstasis you nailed it! Buddhism I think shows us the ideals. It doesn't focus on "This is bad" or "this is good." In fact it doesn't even have a god! You focus more on your own qualities, and try to make yourself better. You don't worry about how other people feel or what religion they are or if their gay or anything! Siddhartha Guatama (Buddha) really knew his stuff.

Ace...maybe u need to go back and read all the posts to get an idea of where we are at..no one is combining church and state...someone said that the bible never said homos should be put to death and that thats where we got started on leviticus
Ace it depends on if ur saved or not... non-saved = hell , saved = heaven
Now these are just my opinions and I know that a lot of you will disagree so how bout we dont turn this into an argument..please... :D
yes the OT and NT greatly differ..in the OT, if u pissed god off, u payed..in the NT its quite different..theres a loop whole (christ) to where u dont have to sacrafice animals or be killed or what not...o well this was about politics and some how got into religion
i think im gonna call it quits.....again..lol *sigh*

Only 21 voters so far.... I was hoping to get more on this one, I wonder how many gt members are actually active?

I think it's kind of funny that the Americans are 6 and 6.

yea, maybe this election will come down to who's the better thief again.

i swear to God, if its neck and neck again and Fox News reports Bush as the winner early AGAIN, i'm gonna go on a rampage. if you live in the LA area, put some lamb's blood on your door and i'll pass you by.

Originally Posted by: Leedoggyea, maybe this election will come down to who's the better thief again.

Well, in the words of Tom Yorke of Radiohead, "Hail to the Thief."

How much faith do you guys have in the quality and integrity of our election system? Not to sound like a whacko conspiracy-theory-of-the-month kinda guy, but I can't help but believe some shenanigans went on that last time around.

There were just too many coincidences favoring Bush with regards to Florida in 2000: Fox News (headed by Rupert Murdoch, a radically conservative billionare nutjob) declaring an early victory for Bush...his brother, Jeb Bush, the governer of Florida...and Katherine Harris (big time Bush supporter/lackey in charge of his campaign in Florida) who was Florida's secretary of state and in charge of the recount.

All coincidence?

This thread is too long and I cant wait to read it all.
Here's how I see it.
Do I approve of gay marriages?
Well, who's asking me to approve?
I'm I gay?
No.
Would I marry a guy?
No.
If there was a refurrendum to decide whether or not to allow gay marriages, I wouldn't go for the vote.
Why? I'm not bothered by it.
Not bothered to stop it,not bothered to assist it.
Everyone does as they please. If it is to come to pass that we shall be judged by a higher authority according to our actions, then we shall be judged.