I don't get this stuff

I don't know, seems like no matter how much I read and ask and talk and all that crap, it just doesn't sink in what all this music theory stuff is. Keys, scales, modes, chords, theory in general. It's like I need someone to bluntly say it in stupid terms for me so it'll register. Anyone got any idea how I can make this stuff sink in easier?

Explain what about each topic of music theory that doesn't make sense and I will try to help you.

Ok, I'll do my best. This is where my newbie side really shows up. Perhaps these are stupid questions, but for some reason it doesn't want to get through.

Keys - How do I use them with a song? As far as memorizing them goes, is there a convenient way about it? So many chords, how would the variations of a Dm chord work with a key, let alone every other chord?

Scales - How do they tie in with keys? How do I know what scales are in which keys? I don't even know all the notes on the neck of the guitar, is there any recommendations on how I can make that one come together?

Modes - Hell, I don't even know what a mode is.

Chords - There's, like 10's of thousands of them, if not more. Where do I start?

I feel kinda dumb for not knowing such questions, or at least having a rational grasp on them, and they seem even dumber to me having typed them out and seen just what it is that blows my mind, but I guess I'm not gonna learn if I don't ask anyone that already knows. I'll sacrifice a moment of ignorance for good skills. Recently (more so than before) I really wanted to learn to write songs as best as I could, and making things up constantly from scratch just isn't doing it. I'd appreciate any form of help. Thanks.

I want to add on to the questions by asking what makes keys and chords major and minor? Thanks.

It's kool, man. Everyone starts somewhere and you aint the only one asking the same questions. You can try the search option on this site for that very reason. If you have a questions about "how to use modes", you'll find everything you probably need to know.

Keys and scales.

When someone says the key of the song is C major. The song uses the scale of C major. A scale is a sequence of notes from root to root. The root is always the note before the scale name. Example C major: "C" is the root, "Major" is the type of sequence of notes. The major sequence is whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half. This done determining the distance between one note in the scale to the next. The C major scale is C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. So from the first C to the note D is a whole step. Then from D to the note E is another whole step. And it goes on finishing the sequences. So if you wanted to write a song in the key of C major, you would use the C major scale.

Memorizing keys and scales is easier to remember if you learn there patterns on the fretboard. Look up scales on in the tricks part of the site or try yahoo "guitar scales" and you'll get a list of them.

Ok when it comes to chords within a key. They are all based on triads which are formed by putting together the root the 3rd and the fifth. So a C major chord is C, E, G. Check the C major scale above. It's C, skip a note, E, skip a note, G. If you do the same with every note within the C major scale, you end up with.

C major (CEG)
D minor (DFA)
E minor (EGB)
F major (FAC)
G major (GBD)
A minor (ACE)
B diminished (BDF)

That's how you come up with chords in a key or scale. To write a chord progression in C major, you would use a sequence of chords listed above like ||Cmaj |Gmaj |Amin |Fmaj ||.

Learning the notes on the fretboard.

Here's a program to help learn the notes on the fretboard.
http://www.francoisbrisson.com/fretboardwarrior/download.html

Modes.

A mode is a scale but instead of starting on the root as meantioned before, you start on another note within the scale. Take the C major scale again, C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. If you started with D instead of C you would end up with a mode, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D = D dorian mode. you can do this with all 7 notes, each is a different mode. Starting with A produces the A minor scale: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A.

List of modes from C major scale:
Major scale (Ionian) CDEFGABC
Dorian mode DEFGABC
Phyrgian mode EFGABCDE (used alot in metal)
lydian mode FGABCDEF
mixolydian mode GABCDEFG
Minor scale (Aeolian) ABCDEFGA
locrian mode BCDEFGAB (very dark sounding)

Chords

Learn open position chords first. Like C major, D major and minor, G major, A minor and so on. Look up open position chords and you find a bunch of them. Out of the thousands of chords, there is a smaller collection of common ones for the guitar; start there.

Hopefully I helped you out man.

Originally posted by Cryptic Excretions
I want to add on to the questions by asking what makes keys and chords major and minor? Thanks.

look at the chords part of the explanation above. If the 3rd of the chord is a minor 3rd above the root note, it's minor. If it's a major 3rd, it's major.

Example C to E is a major 3rd.

C - Db = minor 2nd
C - D = major 2nd
C - Eb = minor 3rd
C - E = major 3rd

So if the chord is made up of

C, Eb, and G it's a minor chord.

If it's made up of

C, E, G it's a major chord. <~ correction from before

It's the same thing with scales.

C to E is major.
A to C is minor.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 02-13-2004 at 02:18 PM]

Dude, it's amazing. I actually can't believe I never got it before. Thanks.

Can i add a question???

When im making a song... and then i want to write the solo for it... how do i kno where to satrt the solo??? On the key of where i satrted the song??

Well, I am no expert in musical theory, and junk, but I would start the solo on the Root notish, for starters. I just say be creative. Don't just hold yourself to be on key at all time. Like most theories, musical theory is just an outline. So I guess what I am trying to say is mix it up? Sorry I couldn't be any more of a help.

Ok. You need to know something first, although it's not exactly the answer you might want to hear. Music theory can't tell you the right notes or right scale to use to create music. I can answer your question to some degree and say that starting on one of the notes of the chord your playing is always a safe bet. Example. If the solo starts on an A minor chord; A, C, or E is a good first note for the solo. The majority of the time this is the case, but if you look at all of the music written; all 12 notes have been used over any given chord. So technically you can start on any note, it all depends on what sounds good to you. Music theory will definitely make you a better musician, but it won't give you the blueprints to make great songs.

Noticingthemistakes you really impress me man! Good on ya! :)

Awww..shucks :)

Thanks Man i appreciate the help.

When it comes to theory and it's application in solos. Harmony will usually keep to the structure of music theory, while melody (solo) will often play against it. This means that the harmony will stick with key signatures and chords within a key. The solo however will use scales that are often contrary to the key.

Example of what I mean. Chord progression as I said before would be in C major. While the scale you might use for the solo is the C minor pentatonic. This is common practice in rock and blues. The third of C minor (Eb) is the blues major tone (b3) of the C major blues scale.

It's not preferrable to the ear to play a solo using the C major scale over the key of C major. Although the notes all sound right, this effect is rather dull and monotonous.

As you can see, if you superimpose any scale over a chord progression in a key. You will be left with all 12 notes being used. Some scales work really well, and some don't. The most compatiable can be found by:

Looking at the triad of the key your in. Say A minor, the notes are A, C, and E. A scale with those three notes in it is compatiable. Even more compatiable is if the key note and the root of the scale are the same. This second statement is broken by jazz players who will play scales with different roots then the key of the song. This is rather difficult for a beginner, stay with the same root to same key until you better understand melody/harmony.

If your follow the above, here are some alt. examples of scales over keys.

C major: C lydian, C mixolydian, C spanish phyrgian, etc.
A minor: A minor blues, A melodic minor, A phyrgian, etc.

That should at least point you in the right direction, rather than just saying any notes will work.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 02-15-2004 at 10:48 AM]

Originally posted by noticingthemistake

Example of what I mean. Chord progression as I said before would be in C major. While the scale you might use for the solo is the C minor pentatonic. This is common practice in rock and blues. The third of C minor (Eb) is the blues major tone (b3) of the C major blues scale.

Lots of great stuff, noticingthemistake. However, I reacted on this little paragraph you wrote.

The chord progression is in C major. Then you suggested using C minor pentatonic for soloing? Wouldn't that sound rather... unpleasing? I mean, the C minor pentatonic has got notes that don't appear in the C major scale. That's why I thought it would sound strange.

How about using the A minor pentatonic instead (as all of it's notes are present in the C major scale), over a progression in the key of C major. Let's say the tonic chord of the progression is A minor. Then use A minor pentatonic for soloing. Or, why not use the A minor scale (Aeolian/6th mode), as long as the chord progression starts and ends on the A minor chord.

What do you think?

Not not actually, but then again it depends on how you use them. I'll try to address each note in difference. First the b7 of the minor pent to the natural 7 of the major scale. I'm sure you have seen this in tab quite a bit [tab]G:-5-6-7-[/tab]. That particular sequences happens quite a bit in rock and blues soloing (dominantly in Bebop). The 7 would actually be the root of the chord in approach. 5 is the b7 and 6 is the natural seven. This sequence doesn't sound unpleasant, however it should be noted that the b7 always resolves up in this context, never down.

The b3 against the natural 3rd. First think of the 3 notes that can be the first note of a solo over a chord. The root, the 3rd and the 5th. In melodies that start on the 3rd above the chord (E over C major) and remain the principle note. The b3 actually acts as a leading tone to the 3rd. So like the b7, the b3 resolves up. The same can be said for the b5 in a blues minor pent. The b5 plays the leading tone role when the melody over a chord when the 5th is the principle note.

Superimposing a minor pent (blues) over a major key gives leading tones to each chord tone of the triad. b3 to 3, b5 to 5, and the bebop sequence b7 to 7 to root.

A minor pent over C major is cool. It depends on what you want, afterall the A minor pent is no different from the C major pent, except you start on a different note. Which can lead to alittle confusion, especially if you study your pents in all 5 positions. For some though it is easier to understand.

All the notes do sound ok, but that can become very monotonous. Imposing contrasting scales over a harmony, creates more colorful and exotic melodies. Some jazz musicians will actually play one scale over a completely different one. Say the harmony follows in a C minor direction, the solo maybe be played using the C locrian mode. Yes alot of wrong notes but wrong notes only sound wrong when they are played with right notes. When all wrong notes are played, they set a texture to them selves and then the right notes suddenly sound wrong. It's a very advanced concept, but true. Just listen to some turn of the century composers and early 20th jazz.

Hopefully that makes sense.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 02-15-2004 at 12:13 PM]

Okay, I'll record a progression in the key of C major, and try to solo over it using the C minor pentatonic. I could try the progression you wrote. Was it C - G - Am - F? I'll find out.

It won't work.
Utilizing the C minor Pentatonic over a C progressin will only work if it's a 1 4 5 progression (C F G). Even then you have to be carefull, there has to be a certian "feel" within the song for it to work...mainly the melody the singer is singing. If the melody is in a major scale then using the parallel minor will usually not work.

Wow, I learned a lot by reading your answers Noticingthemistakes. You really know your kung fu..

Hmmm...I would agree if an instrumental melody was played in minor, while a singer sung in a major scale, and all this over a major key progression. Even writting it out sounds bad. Actually using a minor after a major melody is not wrong. Since music is made of two parts, harmony and melody, they can either play with each other or against each other. Music doesn't have to be strictly linear, changing the texture of an idea by doing the above increases the signifigance of it. Sort of like introducing a character in a story but putting them in different situations to learn more about the actual character. Music that becomes more tense, or vice versa, becomes more interesting. Yes care must be taken, like I said it's more advanced and any beginner should be first comfortable with playing with the harmony before trying to play against it.