My theory why goths/satanists are actually happy little Christians

i think all religions revolve around the same principles more or less.

organized religion is so forced that ppl have lost touch and love for pure religion.

Im not an atheist but i dont belive in god being a white bearded man. Jesus christ was prolly one of the most ascended of the human race, ie theoretically we all have those powers, we just dunno how to use 'em.

Remember physics - energy cannot be destroyed.
therefore for me god is just the absolute life force, the energy that keeps this whole universe going, the balance between cause and effect. if god and the devil are opposites than god IS NOT absolute power.

take everything in life good - evil, love - hate, cause - effect, magnetic poles, etc.. all are opposites uniting at a point and no longer remaining opposites but a perfect unification.

satanisim how u see it is prolly not satanisim in its essence which would really be worshipping pure and uncontrolled energy.

what im getting at is what you see is what popularity has made it to be. be it christianity or satanisim.

if u actually read the bible or the satanic bible or other works ud be able to create your own analogy for teh symbolical images and theory. and find ur own pathway thry life.

which is why we hav a brain and should use it. why christians dont is like really bad, cus God gave u that brain no one else has it - god made man in his image - so if u become a veg and just accept things ur not following christs example your just follwing him, without any clue.

and satanists who just do it for the sake of rebelling against chirstianity is ridiculous. cus ur doing becuase of that. so its causing u to do it.

bottom line ppl suck. :d [the majority anyway]

see, the problem is, people tend to equate God with religion as if the two were dependent when in reality, i think religion is dependent of God and God is independent of anything else-just as some plants are dependent of the sun and the sun is independent of plants. that's why if something goes wrong and when religion fails, we tend to blame god for everything. mind you, everything that is man made will fall. religion is man made- so it will always be doomed to failure but i don't think its fair to attach it up to god and say that god is evil or is it's fault, or that he doesnt exist. i think most of the evils in the world are made by our own doings and could have been prevented/ solvalbe, haven't we only been so selfish.

i strongly agree that god gave us a brain- and with that brain, the ability to choose or free will if you may. people has a history for complainin and demanding for miracles but for God to just make everything good means to mess up with the gift of free will. God and the devil do not work in harmony- they work in discord- a power struggle because the other can only exist without the other.

still don't understand what the deal is with all these extra lines all the time, fool -eggman

[Edited by iamthe_eggman on 01-28-2004 at 09:38 AM]

but come to think of it, religion is not that bad either- even if you don't believe in a God. Psychologically and evolutionary speaking, it has survival value so its actually supposed to be good. it gives you a place to belong which fulfills one of the needs in maslow's hierarchy, it gives that feeling of certainty and pesce which is basic to human nature, it's also an affirmation of your own self because from social psych, we always make comparisons with other people to know our place in the world- ie. seeing other people believe in the same things as you do, makes you feel good and affirms your self, it gives you an explanation for the unknown... i can go on and on. the list goes on and on. i think religions are essential in the survival of the human race. just look back at history- the native people who survive centuries with their nature religion, the ancient babylonians, egyptians and many ancient civilization which fluorished and survive because of their religion (ie. what started out as looking in the sky or gods lead to astronomy- science). People always have a religion. even if all else fails, i think people will always revert back to religion. think of the lord of the flies.

it's just since religion is man made, it can't be totally perfect- there will always be bad things associated with it just as there are good things associated with it.
right now, i think we tend to emphasize the bad things that's why we're giving it so much criticism but without religion I don't know if we'll ever survive or come to this kind of world as we know it.

You know I think I will throw my hat in the ring at all this theological mumbo jumbo...
I also am an "Athiest" of sorts. I personally believe there is more proof that we were put here by an alien race as kinda like a "alien ant farm"....(Hmmm I wonder where they got that name) to see if we could thrive and survive.

I also believe that if you think about it, there are a lot of parallels to my thinking. The alien race that put us here could be construed as "God". I mean they ARE watching over us after all. I mean we have even shot down a few...

I also believe that we go back to the mother planet when it's all said and done, only to be replanted at a later date.

I personally think this is a better explanation, not to mention more proof of plausability, than the depiction of some old grey haired guy in a white mu-mu living in the clouds.

I think were inside the matrix. that film is so good

hairbandrckr, have u ever read Gods of the New Millenium by Allan Alford. Some folks believe that we're actually created by aliens and there's a lot of scientific proofs about this. If you'd like to know more about this possibility, i suggest you read the book. u might like it.

as for me, i don't think that god is that big guy in the clouds with a grey beard- i never said that. by definition, god cannot be classified as anything. the best we can understand him is some great spirit of somesort, or a life force/ energy- whatever you call it. people, especially religion only try to picture him as a human so they could understand just as if horses could draw, they'll also depict god in their pictures in the image of the horse. The problem is, most folks take the symbolism literally. I personally believe in a God. I just don't see him as just the big guy from the sky.

Theres not even that much these days that can't be explained by science. I think everyone just dies and decays simple as that... i think that ppl who believe in god will feel real bad when they die and are just dead

Originally posted by LethalLuke
i think that ppl who believe in god will feel real bad when they die and are just dead

Yeah, they'll feel really upset after their ashes have been spread over the ocean... :rolleyes:

Check out bible-truths.com.This guy is one smart dude making sense of the bible.Ive spent the past five years trying to disprove the bible out of hate for what I thought was a sadist(god).I wound up believing though(I know,what kind of metal head am I?).

'Religion' is stupid,controlling,shallow,deceitful and foolish...but the real word of god(if you believe theres one in the first place)has no affiliation with religion.

I searched for contradictions and found everything comes together perfect,makes sense and isn't contrite.Theres just bad translation(king james)and mis-interpretations.

1.Christ will save ALL and the majority of mankind will NOT burn in hell for eternity.
2.When you die,you are DEAD without any thought.Christ will resurrect.
3.The Devil is NOT independent of god,he is a TOOL and didn't surprise god by defying him.God did exist without satan.He has no power independent of christ.
4.God DOES CREATE EVIL(Isa 45.7).He uses evil for his good purpose and it is temporary.
5.We dont have FREE will.We are under gods will and not indepentent of our creator...though we can make choices,there not 'free'.simple 'cause and effect'.
6.We are held accountable for our actions but God IS responsible.

Seriously,go check out bible-truths.com
he answers the tough questions that 'religion' wont ever touch.Like why we are here,why god lets people suffer e.c.t.



[Edited by chucklivesoninmyheart on 01-28-2004 at 03:43 PM]

Originally posted by aiwass
Has it not occured to you that even the slightest evolutionary change takes tens, if not hundreds of generations to occur? Also, these changes do not necessarily happen for a specific reason; it is the other way around: Creatures whose traits change for the better, survive those of lesser adaptation.

One example is a species of moth found in England, which was originally camouflaged to blend in with the bark on the birch tree (in case you don't know, it's almost white). However, with industrialization came severe coal pollution, which stained the trees black. This rendered the almost white moth an easy target to predators, as it was no longer visible. However, an error occured in the DNA of a few of the moths, causing them to be born darker in color, almost black. Due to natural selection, these darker individuals survived (as they were more adapted to their surroundings, and could not be seen), and the entire species slowly changed to a darker shade.

To take it to another, even more rapid level of evolution, take bacteria, for instance. How come bacteria can become immune to antibiotics? How come penicillin is becoming less and less effective in the battle against infection? How come some viruses are becoming immune to vaccines? EVOLUTION, on such a small scale that quantum leaps can take place within a matter of seconds.

There's a huge difference between [u]evolution[/u] and [u]adaptation[/u]. Adaptation is nowhere near a proof of evolution.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LethalLuke
i think that ppl who believe in god will feel real bad when they die and are just dead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
how will the dead feel bad?- they're dead! If there is no God, and there's only the physical body, then ones your physyical body goes down- so are your sensations, feelings, emotions, consciousness etc. so basically, you won't feel anything! LOL

Haha oh well and i thought i was being really smart when i said that... but u get what i mean ! If they could feel then theyd be pretty pissed off about seeing themselves decaying etc.

- quote aiwass:
"human beings share about 97% of their genes with the common chimpanzee" -

I think its actually 99 point something well im sure i heard it one biology lesson - amazing really.
Also we didnt just evolve from the monkey we evolves from little bits of bacteria. (heard that somewhere unless its my imagination...im no A* student hehe)

Satanism simply means that you live your life to a different set of moral standards than Christians do. A set of moral standards is what religion, in its core, is all about.
Then how can Satanists but Christians?

And as for this comment...

Originally posted by Pantallica1
Atheism means that we would have evolved from monkeys, so that throws me out of being an atheist right there. I don't want to think about my great grand daddy being a monkey!!

... all I can do is laugh really.(like you laugh with a comedian) Atheism and evolution theory have not much to do with eachother. Atheism just believes that there is no god, consequently there can be no god that is responsible for life on earth, which is why athiests tend to prefer logical thinking(evolution theory) over stories about how somehow everything in the universe was created in 7 days...

Christians can just as well believe that evolution is something god is in charge of.

As for myself, I'm a humanist/atheist who keeps his opinions on the matter to himself because he knows better. ;-)

@ aiwass

I didnt say that satanists worship satan. All I'm saying is that satanist reject the idea of christ so they can't be considered Christians. No one said it much better than you did, and I strongly agree- satanists are simply aetheists with a clearer moral outline of doing one's own will and being their own Gods. I am no way proving anything in the name of religion. All i'm doing is throwing questions to questions like a good philosopher in hopes that someday, i might find the truth.

As with your views about the devil, I hope you won't take offense but i would have to pinpoint a couple of errors. First, NEVER will you find Lucifer described in the Bible as the most magnificent and beautiful of the arch angels, and Yahweh- not Jahwe's (God's) favorite of all the angels and that whole story about Lucifer being granted one wish by God, and in stating he wanted to be god, was thrown in hell. If you can give me the exact book, chapter and verse, I would apologize and keep my mouth shut. Rather, our knowledge of this story stems from dear old Judaism which is the root where christianity originally branched out. Even Judaism has many versions of this story. This story also appears in the Nag Hammadi Library if you're interested in checking it out. Second, the bible- specifically Paul for instance, identifies Satan, or Prince of the World- his other name, as THE ENEMY. Third, I believe your logic about God's omnipotence is valid but not sound. The devil is God's "enemy" in a sense that the devil represents everything that is the opposite of God, but despite of this- the devil is under God, or a subordinate (is this the right word?) of God, so although the devil is the enemy, he is not powerful enough to be an obstacle to God.

@ pantallica

i've said this so many times to people but even evolution contradicts itself if you take a look at it. Just look for instance mutations. The human body is a very fragile body- at the time before conception, so many things are happening that even a slight change or mutation such as an extra chromosome would potentially make the child abnormal.
Just one good, healthy mutation is very hard to come by. Imagine then how it was possible for humans to have evolved from monkeys with so many "healthy or good mutations" in just a a course of a couple of hundreds of millions of years. The odds are close to impossible.

Also, evolution tends to favor those mutations that enable us to adapt at environments tend to be preserved. If this is the case, then why didn't we develop small heads? In the pre historic times- in the abscence of doctors and education etc. many mothers have died of childbirth because of the child's big head. why didn't our heads mutate to smaller ones? evolution is simply a theory that scientists use to explain the unknown- it is no different from religion. Some philosophers say that religion was born out of man's means to explain the unknown. Since both are made by humans, they can't be perfect. they're also doomed to fail.

chucklives on in my heart

i certainly agree with the part that god has no affiliation with religion. As with the comment that Religion is "'Religion' is stupid,controlling,shallow,deceitful and foolish," I also agree to a certain extent, but as I've explained in my previous post, i hope u read it, although there are many errors in religion because it is man made, nonetheless, we still need a sort religion to survive. many civilizations fluorished and many scientific achievements were made in the name of religion- just look at the ancient civilizations like the egyptians and the babylonian which basically lived a life of religion. Look at the native indians. It's very easy to discard religion because of the technology now but i strongly believe that when all else fails, i think people will revert back to some sort of religion- one way or another. Now, as to the guy at bible truths, I don't exactly agree with most of his sayings. Here's my comments to his opinions.

4. God DOES CREATE EVIL(Isa 45.7).He uses evil for his good purpose and it is temporary.

I get the concept in Isaiah but i think the guy from bible truths has commited a serious danger when he used the word "evil" as a substitue for "trials and tests." For God does not create "Evil" in a sense of the absolute evil
because just as an apple tree cannot bare orange, so can evil come out of good. Rather, God makes tests, from my understanding, and the test only becomes good and evil depending on your prespective (ie. how you take and deal with the test). It has nothing to do with absolute evil.

5. We dont have FREE will.We are under gods will and not indepentent of our creator...though we can make choices,there not 'free'.simple 'cause and effect'.

Free will exists. It is your choice whether you want to be under god's will or not. But here's the catch. In some religions, God is described as the TAO or the way or direction in which all else fall. If you choose to follow a a different path- you will be destroyed. And you will be destroyed not because God wants to punish/ destroy you. Rather, you are destroyed as a result of the consequences of your actions. Here's a good analogy for you: think of a plant. In order for a plant to grow, you have to put it in the direction of light. You can choose to put it in the path of the light or put it in the dark. If you choose to put it in the dark and away from the light, then you can do so- but if the plant dies, its not because the light wanted to punish the plant. The plant died because you removed it from its life source.

Here's another analogy: If Bob drinks too much and one day his body gives up, you cant say that bob's body gave up because God punished him. Rather, Bob's body gave up as a consequence of the abuse- which is not the natural path/ activity that the body is used to in the first place

As I said before- most of the evils in this world are man made and could be solved/ prevented if we haven't been so selfish.

6: We are held accountable for our actions but God IS responsible.

This is one of the most hilarious things that I've heard. If you are accountable for your own actions, then you must be responsible. Why do you have to throw it to God when things get ****ty. God ain't a doormat.

[Edited by iamthe_eggman on 01-28-2004 at 09:40 PM]

This is by far the most popular page on the site. Look in one day 40+ posts. It took me at least four days for my post to be 40+. Good job Finger Cruncher, I like how you did not make a generic post on guitar but a personal type of thread.

[Unshouted your post -eggman]

[Edited by iamthe_eggman on 01-28-2004 at 10:24 PM]

Originally posted by SPL
Satanism simply means that you live your life to a different set of moral standards than Christians do. A set of moral standards is what religion, in its core, is all about.
Then how can Satanists but Christians?

And as for this comment...

Originally posted by Pantallica1
Atheism means that we would have evolved from monkeys, so that throws me out of being an atheist right there. I don't want to think about my great grand daddy being a monkey!!

... all I can do is laugh really.(like you laugh with a comedian) Atheism and evolution theory have not much to do with eachother. Atheism just believes that there is no god, consequently there can be no god that is responsible for life on earth, which is why athiests tend to prefer logical thinking(evolution theory) over stories about how somehow everything in the universe was created in 7 days...

Christians can just as well believe that evolution is something god is in charge of.

As for myself, I'm a humanist/atheist who keeps his opinions on the matter to himself because he knows better. ;-)

Yeah, well, I try. I was just saying that most "atheist" I've run across seem to turn to evolution as their primary logic behind not beleiving in God. I don't think we evolved from monkeys at all, just my opinion.

As for me, I don't really know what I beleive. I think there's a God, and everything I can't prove is just faith to me. Sounds good to me. I think there are natural phenomena that people (doctors/scientists/experts) can't prove. We call it a miracle, but it had to happen for some reason.

It's an interesting discussion...


Oh yeah, SPL, were you laughing with me or at me? I was trying to be funny, not ignorant. :P

Originally posted by Pantallica1
Oh yeah, SPL, were you laughing with me or at me? I was trying to be funny, not ignorant. :P

I assumed you weren't being serious, that's why I added the "like you laugh with a comedian." ;)

But, some people actually ARE that ignorant, which kind of frightens me... lol