And now, let's talk about WOOD and FINISH

I just want to know everyone's opinion about these questions. Facts are welcome as well.

WOOD (Grain)

(1) Does the grain of wood used on guitar construction have an effect on tone?

(2) is there a difference in tone between tight grain and lose grain? if yes, are they subtle? are they noticeable?
what kinds of sound do they produce?

(3) which would you prefer (ie. which is better): a tighter grain or a loose grain?

FINISH (Nitrocellulose VS Polyurethane)

(1) Does finishing a guitar with nitrocellulose or polyurethane have an affect on guitar tone?

(2) Which is tonally superior? Nitrocellulose or Polyurethane?

I think it is all a matter of personal taste.Some people like the sound of ibanez basswood,some others dont.The same applies here too,although i dont think there is a noticable difference.

Paladin
so are they both good then? I'm just confused. The Gibson customer support told me they use tight grain wood on all their Gibsons. I was speculating maybe that's why Gibsons have a different sound than Epis (epiphones use looser grain). I asked Stewmac about this on the other hand, and gave me a similar answer to yours but told me that some people find a looser grain better because it gives more tone.

anyone want to comment on this or add their opinions?

I don't think the grain of the wood matters as much as the type of wood. The only thing grain is going to have is how pretty it looks when you paint it.

Hmm... when it comes to the details of a sound things get complicated.But they are details.About the grain..yes, you can barely hear the difference in tone.Personally i wouldnt examine this little detail that much,but as hairbnd mentioned the type of the wood matters the most.When you get to actually trying to make a nice sound you will see that this little detail isnt noticable anymore.For example, when i try to make a nice full blown solo sound there are so many things that i add to to the sound so that even the type of wood doesnt matter anymore.Pickups yes,they matter.Type of distortion yes,it matters.Type of compression yes it matters.Neck pickup or bridge pickup yes,it matters.But not the grain.Not even the wood.
If you wanna play clean,yes the wood matters.It makes a big difference.But not the grain.
The only thing that you must do to be completely sure what guitar to buy is to go to a store and try both the gibson and the epiphone very very inspective.Play with both of them using the same settings on the same amp and try to hear which of both you like best.Or even better,if you have a rather small amp,get your amp with you at the store and try them on it.When i wanted to buy cabinets i used to drag with me my preamp unit and test the cabints with my preamp.It is the only way to make sure that you get the tone you like.

thanks paladin, that was very helpful. i'll give it a try tomorrow when i go to the store.

Ehhh, I can TELL that a lot of woods and finishes affect your tone. But I don't really care either way. I get my sound from my fingers, strings, pickups..not from the wood.

i know it starts from your fingers- i'm planning to have a guitar custom built and if i'm going to spend a lot of money for it, i might atleast get all my money's worth by getting the best wood and the best possible finish.

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Original Post by Paladin
About the grain..yes, you can barely hear the difference in tone.Personally i wouldnt examine this little detail that much,but as hairbnd mentioned the type of the wood matters the most.When you get to actually trying to make a nice sound you will see that this little detail isnt noticable anymore.For example, when i try to make a nice full blown solo sound there are so many things that i add to to the sound so that even the type of wood doesnt matter anymore.Pickups yes,they matter.Type of distortion yes,it matters.Type of compression yes it matters.Neck pickup or bridge pickup yes,it matters.But not the grain.Not even the wood.
If you wanna play clean,yes the wood matters.It makes a big difference
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Just a curious question, if the type of wood matters more than the grain of wood, why does an epi les paul (even if you replaced every electronics and hardware with Gibson stuff) with a mahogany body and maple top sound different than a gibson les paul that has the same mahogany back/ maple top material?

I am also aware that once you put distortion effects and stuff, I know that the difference in sound is barely noticeable but nowadays, I find myself playing clean- I don't heavily rely on amps or effects, that's why even little details like this bothers me so much- I can hear it!

About your question: pickups mabey? Pickups make a big difference.But i dont believe that the grain does make one..

Sorry you said: if you replaced every part with a gibson part.. Have you seen that?Have you heard the result?
If it is still different then mabey it is the quality of mahogany.I dont know much about gibsons,i cant be sure.But i think there wouldnt be any noticable difference.
If you are going for a nice clean sound i would suggest trying other guitars too.For example no other guitar can produce that typical funk sound of a stratocaster which i like very much.
I was always a fun of stratocasters because you can play everything with them and they have a very nice sound too...

yup, for instance, I have tested a Gibson Les Paul Standard with burstbuckers and compared it to my friend's Epiphone Les Paul Standard which he modded by replacing the electronics and hardware with Gibson stuff up (ie. burstbuckers, gibson 500k pots etc) and I find that the Epi can sound close to the Gibson but it cannot be a Gibson.

As with the quality of wood, how do you determine this? You see, I was specualting that maybe higher quality woods are the ones that have a tighter grain while the lower quality woods are the ones that have a looser grain because its the tight grain wood they use on Gibsons while they use the loose grain wood on Epis. That's why I was thinking, maybe this is the reason why Epis and Gibsons sound different?

I heard the Beatles for a time stripped the finish off their guitars cause they thought they got a better sound?

Mabey you are right,but i dont know for sure.It is hard to determine the quality of wood.Just go and buy what sounds best to you.And dont forget to try other guitars too.
In gibsons and epiphones i always liked one thing best.That it is very easy to play on them.For me it was very easy.Almost as easy as in a stratocaster while in other guitars the setup of the knobs and the bridge kind of prevents you from doing several staff.
But i couldnt find another reason to get a gibson.Personally i dont like that sound.I dont hate it but i dont like it either.
So be sure to check lots of guitars and be sure to check them with the right equipment.Many shop owners put the guitars in 100 watts amps and when you hear it you say: ahhh!!! But when you put it on your amp (mine was a 20 watt gorilla :P) you just can dial a similar sound.
Tell him to plug it into a normal 50 watt amp and then try and buy.

then why do people say that gibsons are better than epis no matter how much you changed the electronics and hardware of the epis with real gibsons. Why can't epis be gibsons- even if they're both made by the same people? The only differences i see are one's made in the US and the other in Asia and one uses a tight grain while the other uses loose grain of wood?

Maybe it is in the finish. Some folks prefer nitrocellulose the best tonewise but to some folks sounds amazing too as long as it is applied properly and very thin- it's also better quality wise because polyurethane is stronger and less resistant to wear than nitrocellulose.
I know that Gibsons spray their lps with nitrocellulose while epis spray theirs with polyurethane.

what do you guys think of this?

i meant to say, to some people, nitrocellulose is the best tonewise but some say that polyurethane sounds amazing too as long as it is applied properly and very thin.

For instance- the classic Gibsons were sprayed by nitrocellulose while the modern Ibanezes are finished with polyurethane i think.

As far as Gibson saying they use tight grain wood...that means (and hopefully they're being truthful) they are using naturally grown trees.

If you were to cut a tree down out in the forest and compare the rings to that of a tree that was grown in a nursery (lotsa chemicals to get them to grow fast) you'd see the rings are tighter on the natural tree.

Tighter grain = stronger, more healthy wood.

How does this affect the tone? I'm not sure, but I'm sure it affects it in one way or another. Hope this helps.

that was very interesting fendermonkey. i didn't think of it that way.

but what about finishes. anyone know the sonic characteristics of nitrocellulose vs polyurethane?

The denser and heavier the wood,
the more it is likely to sustain,
along with influencing other tonal effects.

Of course, people don't like a guitar that's too heavy,
so a balance must be struck.


As for the tightness of the grain in any given species..
you'll see tight grain chosen for the spruce soundboard
on top end archtops. These pieces are 'tap-toned' before
being selected and the tight grain is beneficial.


I agree that these characteristics don't influence the
tone as much as the fingers and technique of the player...


... but don't forget the pick.
It can make a vast difference in your tone.
It's also so small that you don't have to take
weight into consideration.

I had an idea to use Lignum Vitae, which is the world's
strongest and heaviest wood, for guitar picks..
and have been making them for about 6 months now.

My theory is that since sound travels so much better
in a liquid medium than it does elsewhere,
the enormous amount of natural oil embedded in
the cellular structure of LV would enhance tone greatly.