Mysterious Tuning Problem

I know the different tricks to tuning a guitar, and have employed them on many different guitars, therefor I know they work and I am executing them correctly. However, one of my acoustics has been a real C*NT ...

To tune this acoustic, I have: used my electric keyboard to match the notes, a tuner, string to string harmonics, and the classic 5th string technique. But my 2nd string seems to only like certain chords.

Basically I can do either of the following ...

1. Tune the 2nd string to the 3rd.
2. Tune the 2nd string to the 4th.
3. Tune the 2nd string to the 5th.

... and get only certain chords sounding correct.

Illustration of tuning conflictions (# is when conflict occurs) -

1. Tuning 2nd to 4thšššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššššš2. Tuning 2nd to 5th
|ššššššššššššššššššššššššššš|šššššššššššššššššššš|
|-#-----2-------------------|-0-----#------------|
|-#--#--3-----#-------------|-0--2--#-----1------|
|-1--2--2-----0-------------|-1--2--2-----0------|
|-2--2--0-----2-------------|-2--2--0-----2------|
|-2--0--------3-------------|-2--0--------3------|
|-0-------------------------|-0------------------|

|-E--A--D-----C-------------|-E--A--D-----C------|

You can see on the second one (tuning 2nd to 5th) that E chord works, but then D doesnt ... if the strings work together to get E, shouldn't it work with D as well?

Just as I posted this thread, I tuned my other guitar, tuned the 2nd string to the 5th string 2nd fret, then used harmonics to tune the 1st to the 2nd string. Wow, sounds really good. Strange how my other guitar is such a problem.

Maybe someone has seen this before. Even if I am tuning wrong, which is HIGHLY UNLIKELY, my tuner still doesn't even get the strings right.

[Edited by Neil Young on 09-04-2003 at 07:34 PM]

Hey dude, have you tried different gauge strings? I figure it could be a number of things but this may be a potential cheep fix.

You may also want to have a shufty round the old Guitar Tricks newsletter articles, I remember Azrael wrote one about well tempered tuning. You could also search for Buzz Feitin (sp?) tuning.

If none of the above work you may want to have a look at the acoustic intoneaters at stewmac.com

I think the good Doctor is on to something about the intonation. If this problem has been slowly developing over a long period of time, you should look down the length of the neck, from the head, and see if the body of the guitar has a pronounced bulge, or 'belly' between the sound hole and the strap peg. This is caused by the string tension pulling on the bridge and the top. The bridge slowly moves up, raising the action, and closer to the nut, slightly reducing the scale length, which screws up the intonation.

That's very hard to fix. I suspect the repair would involve replacing the top, and possibly 'pinning' the bridge to the soundpost.

Yeah the guitar appears to have a "belly", in fact when I first got the guitar the strings were buzzing so I increased the action of the truss rod, maybe this caused it. Thanks for the insight.

How much do you think fixing such a problem would cost? Would probably be better just getting a new guitar, this one was $135.

[Edited by Neil Young on 09-04-2003 at 11:15 PM]

Originally posted by Neil Young
... How much do you think fixing such a problem would cost? Would probably be better just getting a new guitar, this one was $135...

Unless you have some heavy emotional attachment to this particular guitar, I think it's time to consider upgrading.

This is fairly common problem with alot of accoustic guitars, the 2nd string when tuned open, is sharp when fretted, some guitars are worse than others but most suffer a bit from this, the main culprit is the uncompensated bridge saddle, I usally fret the 2nd string at the 3rd fret and tune it to the open D, which makes the B a little flat when played open but fairly liveable, or you can make a new bridge saddle, which is pretty easy to do and compensate the B string by moving the contact point for the string back toward the bridge pins, basically just increasing the string length slightly, it may take a little trial and error but it helps............

The Buzz Feiten method of tuning involves changing the nut and I believe replacing some frets with staggered frets (not straight).

There's a good method of tuning provided by the Guild of American Luthiers that shows step-by-step how to tune a guitar so that notes sound the same (and in tune) in different positions.

Here's the link.

You may want to use this method on your new guitar, after it's been all set-up and has settled to the conditions in your house. I used to use this method, but it became too time-consuming and I stopped caring about whether I was 1.5 cent out of tune.