Playing Spanish


Axl_Rose
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Axl_Rose
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02/25/2003 1:29 pm
Can anyone tell me the fundamental rules to playing Spanish style.
Theres a guns n roses songs that goes spanishy and you use a bit of tremolo picking, and the major scale, anything else?
Best? Chords? scales? tricks, what is best?

Later
# 1
SLY
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02/25/2003 3:51 pm
For spanish tremolo picking you use three or four picking fingers per string , (thumb, index , middle , & ring) .

It takes lots of practicing and you must have a spanish (nylon strings) guitar to do it ... I've tried it with elec & acoustic (steel strings) guitars and it was very hard and sloppy... It's due to the more string spacing in spanish guitars.
Bass players use similar techniques to shred too.
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chris mood
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chris mood
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02/25/2003 4:15 pm
Check out some true spanish/flamenco players and you would be amazed at what they can do, I strongly recommend Paco de Lucia, the father of modern flamenco music. Spanish guitar music is derived from classical guitar music, both utilizing strong right hand technique (fingerstyle). The main difference is that flamenco players will rely on fast free stroke playing w/the right hand while many classical players will do more rest stroke technique to achieve better tone and sustain.
What your are referring to w/Slash is the american way of incorporating spanish style phrasing on electric and steel string acoustic, techniques mastered and performed by Al Dimeola. This technique is known as double picking, were the right hand moves twice as fast as the left, essentially playing every note twice. Right hand string dampening will offer a cool percusive sound to this technique.
Main scales used; Phrygian and Harmonic minor.
You should really check out Paco de Lucia, he's so cool. You don't even have to be a fan of spanish/flamenco music to appreciate his incredible speed and overall musical brillance, I really can't say enough good things about this guitarist, and I've listened to a lot of players and I'm a tough critic.
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Axl_Rose
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Axl_Rose
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02/25/2003 9:57 pm
How do u mean using three fingers for tremolo picking? make it so my three fingers brush past/ pic the one string?
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02/25/2003 11:51 pm
Axl , it would be very hard to learn this technique if you're not familiar with classical finger picking style ... Try learning some basic pieces like Romanza & Malagena .

If you wanna practice this (I don't know it's name) technique , try getting your picking hand familiar with these patterns by playing open strings first.

T I M T I M
e-0-0-0--0-0-0-- (Triplets)

T I M R T I M R
e-0-0-0-0--0-0-0-0-

T=thumb , I=Index , M=Middle , R=Ring.

After you master these patterns , try playing scale runs and stuff like that , then try moving into adjacent strings or even try some string skipping.
I'm not very good at these stuff myself , since I rarely pick up my spanish guitar these days ... I need someone to encourage me to start Flamenco again. ;)
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chris mood
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02/26/2003 3:34 pm
TIMTIM....Are you using your thumb on the same string as your index and middle? Or did you write this out to be played on adjacent strings?
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chris mood
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02/26/2003 3:45 pm
hmmm,that's interesting. It seems to work a little better though if you go TMITMI.
You can't really do it too fast though cause your thumb and index (or middle depending on if your using the pattern TMI)will cancel each other out since there approaching the string from different directions.
I've always done it using RMI, you can play it faster that way and have your thumb free to do other things, like in Austurias.
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02/26/2003 4:11 pm
Originally posted by chris mood
You can't really do it too fast though cause your thumb and index (or middle depending on if your using the pattern TMI)will cancel each other out since there approaching the string from different directions.


No , they won't cancel each other , you should practice a little more to get them sound like successive picking.

The RMI , IMR or whatever is more of a bass style picking ... Most Flamenco/Gipsy guys I've seen use the TIM or TIMR for scale runs or tremolo picking .

I guess I'll start picking up my spanish again , thanx fellas. :D
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chris mood
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02/26/2003 6:51 pm
I don't know, playing w/the thumb on the same string as the fingers seems awkward to me, I've never heard of this. I have a Paco de Lucia dvd and I know he doesn't do this. I'm pretty sure this is not done in traditional classical music either, since it is my understanding that classical guitar players use the fingers for strings 1,2,& 3 and their thumb for strings 4,5,& 6. It would be interesting to hear from Azreal on this subject since I know he is pretty up on this stuff.
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chris mood
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02/26/2003 6:57 pm
Also, playing w/the thumb on the same strings as your fingers forces you to keep your right hand crunched up in a fist position close to the strings. This is good for doing fingerpicking patterns but not very effective for doing fast single-note Flamenco runs.
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Axl_Rose
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02/26/2003 8:32 pm
So what chords would give it a spanish feel?
This is all great advice but i dont wana go over board, i just wana be able to be doing an accoustic solo and put new spanish flavours in it!
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02/26/2003 9:22 pm
Originally posted by chris mood
...I'm pretty sure this is not done in traditional classical music...


You're right dude , it's not Classical style , it's mainly done in Spanish Gipsy music and Flamenco.
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chris mood
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02/26/2003 9:48 pm
But I have my doubts on this technique being used by many Flamenco/Gypsy guitar players, this technique seems very inhibiting, you can get much more speed & force by having the hand positioned above the strings and moving the entire finger then by having the hand crouched in a fist position and just moving from the knuckle.
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chris mood
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02/26/2003 9:53 pm
A- G D/F# F E or A- E7 (E7b9) or A- D7 (D9)or E F/E G/E (Malaguena) and then there's the famous Santana one (Europa)F- Bb7 Ebmaj7 Abmaj7 D-7b5 G7#5 C- C7
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02/26/2003 9:57 pm
It's used in Gipsy/Flamenco music ... Also there's a more awkward tecnique for speed picking , and I'm sure it's very widely used too.

M I m i
e-0-0-0-0-

This is not what you think , the first M I is done normaly , while the other 2 notes m i are picked by the BACK of the finger (nail).
It's similar to rasguedo (spell?) technique , but on one string ... Very hard though !

To do this technique, you gotta have tall nails .
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chris mood
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02/26/2003 10:01 pm
The equivalent of alternate picking, I've always wondered if this was possible. I've tried it before, but not w/much success.
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02/26/2003 10:09 pm
It's possible , I've seen a hell of people doing it before ... I do it too but not so good since my spanish techniques are getting weaker cuz I don't practice much.

It's VERY VERY hard to do it without long nails .
On the other hand , you can't get your nails long or else you won't be able to tap on the elec. !

Goddamn it , I'm gonna get me some Finger Picks . ;)
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chris mood
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02/27/2003 2:13 am
Yeah its a pain trying to accomodate both. I chew my nails up just playing the electric w/a pick. And finger picking or chicken picking on the electric with nails is not a very pleasant thing either.
Are there a lot of guys playing Flamenco where you live?
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02/27/2003 2:18 am
Not A LOT , but spanish guitar is more popular here (I'm from Egypt) ... I love spanish guitar and music, but I'm more of an elec guy though !
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chris mood
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02/27/2003 3:29 pm
Yeah, electric guitar is my primary instrument. But the older I get the more I like the idea of being a self sufficent musician, not having to depend on other people to make music & do gigs etc..Playing solo guitar on the electric can sound like excessive noodling, so I slowly gravitated to the acoustic. I'm not much of a steel string acoustic player (just don't have the touch) so the nylon str. became my new instrument of choice. I love the tone and the idea of connecting to the instrument w/your fingers.

I love Flamenco/Spanish music because to me it sounds like the ultimate fusion of classical and jazz. There's no one around where I live doing it so I've been teaching myself. Been buying a lot of cd's, dvd's etc..whatever I can get my hands on to help understand the music. Been at it for a year now, starting to get pretty good at. It is a lot of work, but it is cool.
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